Delays in first passport for child born overseas

Old Apr 8th 2015, 8:48 pm
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Default Re: Delays in first passport for child born overseas

Originally Posted by drmysterious
Hi Guys,

3 months ago I moved to Saudi Arabia with my wife for work. We now have a 2-month old baby boy (so born in Saudi Arabia).

I have applied for his British passport online, and the passport office in Liverpool had received the application on 16 March 2015. According to the website, the processing time in my case is around 8 weeks.

However, I am really disheartened to learn on this forum that it takes much longer than this. My holidays are scheduled on the 15th June, and I and my wife were planning to go back to the UK for 20 days and then fly somewhere nice for the remaining period of the holidays.

On a side note, I hold dual nationality (including British), whilst my wife is on ILR (so non-British).

Please could people who had previously applied from Saudi Arabia / Gulf area report on the waiting time to receive the passport. I need to book my flight tickets within this month for the UK visit and holidays.

What do you advise?

Many thanks
What is your other nationality and your wife's nationality? Are they favourable in terms of visa-free access to the UK and EU countries? If so can you get your son a passport from one or both of those countries?
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Old Apr 9th 2015, 11:45 am
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Default Re: Delays in first passport for child born overseas

Originally Posted by Gozit
What is your other nationality and your wife's nationality? Are they favourable in terms of visa-free access to the UK and EU countries? If so can you get your son a passport from one or both of those countries?
Nationals of Algeria; thus it does not help much
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Old Apr 9th 2015, 2:26 pm
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Default Re: Delays in first passport for child born overseas

Originally Posted by drmysterious
Nationals of Algeria; thus it does not help much
You could always get an Algerian passport for him and then get a Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode (https://www.gov.uk/right-of-abode/ap...of-entitlement) placed in his passport. That would allow him back into the UK as a British citizen. Then once you are in the UK you could fast track a UK passport for him same day which would enable him to travel as a Brit. Not ideal but given the timelines for UK passports probably your only option to ensure you have it done in time.

You'd also have to ensure he has the correct visa in his Algerian passport to allow him to re-enter Saudi Arabia if needed.
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Old Apr 9th 2015, 8:00 pm
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Question Re: Delays in first passport for child born overseas

Originally Posted by Gozit
You could always get an Algerian passport for him and then get a Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode (https://www.gov.uk/right-of-abode/ap...of-entitlement) placed in his passport. That would allow him back into the UK as a British citizen. Then once you are in the UK you could fast track a UK passport for him same day which would enable him to travel as a Brit. Not ideal but given the timelines for UK passports probably your only option to ensure you have it done in time.

You'd also have to ensure he has the correct visa in his Algerian passport to allow him to re-enter Saudi Arabia if needed.
I really appreciate your advice Gozit so thanks. However, I need to clarify some points and get your opinion.

1-Child does not have a residence permit in Saudi Arabia (They refused to issue it on his Algerian passport) for that I entered KSA using my British passport. They are asking for the British passport to grant him residence permit !!!

2-Thus to take the child outside of KSA, I have to apply for final exit visa for him. I don't mind doing this as long as we can get him his British passport within a reasonable time frame.

3- I have applied for his British passport 3 weeks ago, and submitted the necessary original documents with the application (e.g. naturalisation certificate). Now, do I ask for the original documents to be sent back from the passport office (because I would need these to get him the right of abode certificate), or do I cancel the passport application altogether?

4- I have looked at the supporting documents for obtaining the right of abode (https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...ight-abode.pdf), one of which is:
"Evidence of your permission to be in the country where you are applying, if you are not a national of that country"
The child only has a birth certificate (see point 1). I am worried about this!

5- What is the waiting time for obtaining the right of abode certificate from abroad? (https://www.gov.uk/right-of-abode/ap...of-entitlement)
If the application is made inside the UK, a decision will be made within 6 months which is longer than the waiting time for processing a passport application (8 weeks when application are made from KSA)! For me, this is key because I don't want to prolong the process.

6- If the right of abode certificate is successfully granted before the summer, and once I am back to the UK with the child. How long will it take me to get my child his British passport. Since it is his first passport, there is no one-day fast track service. I am, however, happy with 2/3 weeks. My only worry is that it won't change much even if the application is made within the UK since the child is born outside the UK?

If making an application from within the UK makes things faster, I can ask a friend in the UK to do it on my behalf (I just need to send him the documents and filled in application form)?

I am sorry for this long post, but I am really confused and I could make use of some help here.

Thanks
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Old Apr 9th 2015, 8:17 pm
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Default Re: Delays in first passport for child born overseas

Originally Posted by drmysterious
I really appreciate your advice Gozit so thanks. However, I need to clarify some points and get your opinion.

1-Child does not have a residence permit in Saudi Arabia (They refused to issue it on his Algerian passport) for that I entered KSA using my British passport. They are asking for the British passport to grant him residence permit !!!
This would be a roadblock. I guarantee if you go back to UK with son on a 3-4 week visit you will not get a re-entry permit for KSA in time. And they will likely deny your son entry, which would cause you to be in a tad of a pickle

2-Thus to take the child outside of KSA, I have to apply for final exit visa for him. I don't mind doing this as long as we can get him his British passport within a reasonable time frame.
That's probably a bad idea if you are planning to bring him immediately back to KSA.


3- I have applied for his British passport 3 weeks ago, and submitted the necessary original documents with the application (e.g. naturalisation certificate). Now, do I ask for the original documents to be sent back from the passport office (because I would need these to get him the right of abode certificate), or do I cancel the passport application altogether?
I'm not quite sure on this one to be honest, we'll see if one of the more knowledgeable members comes along.

4- I have looked at the supporting documents for obtaining the right of abode (https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...ight-abode.pdf), one of which is:
"Evidence of your permission to be in the country where you are applying, if you are not a national of that country"
The child only has a birth certificate (see point 1). I am worried about this!
In that case it would be *your* permission to reside in KSA if I remember correctly, since child is a minor.

5- What is the waiting time for obtaining the right of abode certificate from abroad? (https://www.gov.uk/right-of-abode/ap...of-entitlement)
If the application is made inside the UK, a decision will be made within 6 months which is longer than the waiting time for processing a passport application (8 weeks when application are made from KS[A)! For me, this is key because I don't want to prolong the process.
I know it says 6 mos there, but if I recall correctly it usually takes shorter than that. Last year when they were having the big passport crisis they were issuing them on the spot, but i'm sure that won't apply now unfortunately.

6- If the right of abode certificate is successfully granted before the summer, and once I am back to the UK with the child. How long will it take me to get my child his British passport. Since it is his first passport, there is no one-day fast track service. I am, however, happy with 2/3 weeks. My only worry is that it won't change much even if the application is made within the UK since the child is born outside the UK?

If making an application from within the UK makes things faster, I can ask a friend in the UK to do it on my behalf (I just need to send him the documents and filled in application form)?
If the ROA certificate was successfully granted and you brought child to UK to apply for the passport from UK the time would be different since you are applying from within UK. It does not matter that he was born outside of the UK. The processing time would not be as long as the abroad time, seeing as the international application system for UK passports is an utter mess at the moment.

I am sorry for this long post, but I am really confused and I could make use of some help here.

Thanks
No worries.

Honestly, what I would do if you can, is wait until the 8 weeks is up as that is what HMPO claims is the timeline for British passports first time child app from abroad, and as soon as that 8 weeks hits, start bugging people. Bug your MPs, bug the embassy, etc.

The worst case scenario if nothing works out is Algerian passport and a UK tourist visa if they will issue it. Technically they can't issue a UK citizen with a travel visa but they might do it given the circumstances. Its really unfair that some people have to cancel their vacations just because the UK government takes ages to process passports.

But KSA not wanting to issue a visa in the kids Algerian passport is a roadblock.

Have you applied for and received his Algerian passport yet? I would do so if you can, just in case....

Sorry I can't offer better news.
Fingers crossed for you mate.
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Old Apr 9th 2015, 9:26 pm
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Default Re: Delays in first passport for child born overseas

Originally Posted by Gozit
This would be a roadblock. I guarantee if you go back to UK with son on a 3-4 week visit you will not get a re-entry permit for KSA in time. And they will likely deny your son entry, which would cause you to be in a tad of a pickle

That's probably a bad idea if you are planning to bring him immediately back to KSA.
Strangely enough, I am hopeful that the Saudi embassy in London would give him a 3-month residence visa, and upon arrival I can apply for his Residence Permit. I don't see a reason why they would refuse him a family/residence visa. Yet, I am still to inquire about this.

Originally Posted by Gozit
I'm not quite sure on this one to be honest, we'll see if one of the more knowledgeable members comes along.
Okey ... I will wait for help from others

Originally Posted by Gozit
In that case it would be *your* permission to reside in KSA if I remember correctly, since child is a minor.
That was my biggest worry really.

Originally Posted by Gozit
I know it says 6 mos there, but if I recall correctly it usually takes shorter than that. Last year when they were having the big passport crisis they were issuing them on the spot, but i'm sure that won't apply now unfortunately.
I would be extremely pleased if I get ROA certificate within a month time.

Originally Posted by Gozit
If the ROA certificate was successfully granted and you brought child to UK to apply for the passport from UK the time would be different since you are applying from within UK. It does not matter that he was born outside of the UK. The processing time would not be as long as the abroad time, seeing as the international application system for UK passports is an utter mess at the moment.
That would be really good. Even better if I can go and do it myself on his behalf, but maybe they require him to be in the UK?

Originally Posted by Gozit
Honestly, what I would do if you can, is wait until the 8 weeks is up as that is what HMPO claims is the timeline for British passports first time child app from abroad, and as soon as that 8 weeks hits, start bugging people. Bug your MPs, bug the embassy, etc.
That was my initial plan until I found this disheartening thread. I am not seeing any positive news on this thread. 8 weeks will take me to 15 May, only 1 month before my planned holidays. I am really undecided at the moment.

Originally Posted by Gozit
The worst case scenario if nothing works out is Algerian passport and a UK tourist visa if they will issue it. Technically they can't issue a UK citizen with a travel visa but they might do it given the circumstances. Its really unfair that some people have to cancel their vacations just because the UK government takes ages to process passports.
Sadly, they won't issue a UK tourist visa for British citizens. Even if they do, I won't be able to bring him back to KSA with the Algerian passport, it has to be the British passport which is the dilemma.

Originally Posted by Gozit
But KSA not wanting to issue a visa in the kids Algerian passport is a roadblock.

Have you applied for and received his Algerian passport yet? I would do so if you can, just in case....
Yes, I got him the Algerian passport same day! Totally agree with you, people here are difficult to deal with. I have requested that they link the residence permit to the Algerian passport but with no luck so far! It nowhere says that the son has to hold the same nationality of the father in order to issue him a residence permit ... really both KSA and UK are making my life difficult.

I am really disappointed with the UK system of issuing British passports and the long waiting times it takes causing major problems for expats around the world. I am also angry with some of the stupid and irrational rules applied here like the one of my case. I will only able to leave KSA for holidays when my son gets his British passport, this may take 2 months or 2 years, so I am stuck here for the grilling summer !

Originally Posted by Gozit
Sorry I can't offer better news.
Fingers crossed for you mate.
Thanks for the detailed response, really helpful.
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Old Apr 11th 2015, 3:28 am
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Default Re: Delays in first passport for child born overseas

Originally Posted by drmysterious
Strangely enough, I am hopeful that the Saudi embassy in London would give him a 3-month residence visa, and upon arrival I can apply for his Residence Permit. I don't see a reason why they would refuse him a family/residence visa. Yet, I am still to inquire about this.
Yeah, you could try that. Personally, I wouldn't risk it, and as an extreme backup plan I would have family members lined up in UK he could stay with potentially, should he be denied a visa. Because he would be denied boarding by the airline if he did not have a visa, whether in UK p.p or Algerian. I would try and contact the KSA embassy in London if you haven't already


Okey ... I will wait for help from others


That was my biggest worry really.


I would be extremely pleased if I get ROA certificate within a month time.
Yeah, if what i've heard on here and the timeline on the UK Gov website I wouldn't count on that. I had thought they were issuing them on the spot... My bad.


That would be really good. Even better if I can go and do it myself on his behalf, but maybe they require him to be in the UK?
No, your son does not need to be in UK with you in order to get a passport. But they may faff about with interviews; they might ask your wife to be there too. They are really annoying about first time passports for children born overseas, as you can tell.



That was my initial plan until I found this disheartening thread. I am not seeing any positive news on this thread. 8 weeks will take me to 15 May, only 1 month before my planned holidays. I am really undecided at the moment.
Yeah. Its annoying because the staff there won't engage with you until the 8 weeks has passed. But right on that 15th May if you still don't know whats happening with your sons passport, I would be on the phone with anyone I could be. Call/write your MP in the UK, call the passport office in Durham, pester the UK embassy, do whatever you need to do to fast track it.



Sadly, they won't issue a UK tourist visa for British citizens. Even if they do, I won't be able to bring him back to KSA with the Algerian passport, it has to be the British passport which is the dilemma.
I know its a longshot, but you could try to get him a UK tourist visa in the Algerian passport, i've seen it done on here before, although it isn't recommended by some people here, and then try and see if the KSA embassy in UK will issue him a visa in the Algerian passport. Maybe the embassy might be willing to do it where the office in KSA itself isn't.

More on the tourist visa - if it were me and I was able to get a tourist visa in my British child's non British passport, I would just use it to satisfy the airline, and once I got to the immigration desk in the UK, I would explain and provide proof that child is British, ie birth certificates, parents naturalisation certificate in your case, parents British passport, etc. and that would help ensure the child is allowed into UK as they *cannot* deny a UK citizen entry into the UK, even without a British passport.



Yes, I got him the Algerian passport same day! Totally agree with you, people here are difficult to deal with. I have requested that they link the residence permit to the Algerian passport but with no luck so far! It nowhere says that the son has to hold the same nationality of the father in order to issue him a residence permit ... really both KSA and UK are making my life difficult.
Thats a dumb rule. What if say

Father was a British citizen by descent, and used that passport to get into KSA. Other citizenship was an internationally undesireable one in terms of travel agreements - say South African. Mother is of a completely different nationality - say Canadian. The father's nationality is British as registered with KSA since that is the passport that qualified him for the KSA job and work permit - but that nationality is not transferable to the child since the father is British by descent. (and we are assuming here that he does not have the necessary residence requirements to register his child with form MN-1)

Therefore the child is unable to hold the "same" nationality as the father. And i guess it sounds like under that rule wouldn't be issued a residence permit. Ludicrous. Anyway. That was way OT.

I am really disappointed with the UK system of issuing British passports and the long waiting times it takes causing major problems for expats around the world. I am also angry with some of the stupid and irrational rules applied here like the one of my case. I will only able to leave KSA for holidays when my son gets his British passport, this may take 2 months or 2 years, so I am stuck here for the grilling summer !



Thanks for the detailed response, really helpful.

I am not British, so I know it really isn't my place to judge, but it really seems they've made a mess of things. IMO they did everything too fast. They basically full stop stopped issuing passports through British missions abroad and forced everyone to send them to Durham, all at the same time. They were unprepared for the mass amounts of applications, and its been a crap chute for the last year or so.

Take Canada - they took forever to start issuing biometric passports (wasn't until 2013) , but the system is really efficient and has been from day 1, and there is adequate facilities for Canadians living abroad and Canadians living in remote areas of Canada itself. Passports are done for people in Canada within 10 business days if you apply in person, and usually 4-5 weeks from abroad (and this is guaranteed and in practise true most of the time).

I come from a small island country with not as much resources (Malta) and I had my Maltese passport in 5 weeks, applying from Canada.

Anyway, i'm cheering for you mate. Hope your holidays go all as planned.
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Old Apr 11th 2015, 4:39 am
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Default Re: Delays in first passport for child born overseas

I applied for a first time passport for my daughter born in Hong Kong in early November. The Passport Office received it officially on the 12th November last year. Five months later and it is still undergoing security checks in Liverpool.

Thanks to this forum I know that the 8 weeks the Passport Office quote is entirely unrealistic, and I am now resigned to waiting the best part of a year to receive my daughter's passport.

I don't understand why it has to take so long. My daughter's case is a simple one - her mother is a naturalised UK citizen and we provided the original naturalisation certificate which gives our daughter automatic citizenship. And regardless of how long they need, the Passport Office should be setting realistic expectations. Perhaps a FOI request will reveal how long applications are really taking compared to the advertised estimates?

Thankfully my daughter is also eligible for a Hong Kong passport, which was issued in less than 2 weeks, but I feel for those who don't have that option and are effectively stuck in the Hong Kong SAR (without even being able to go to Mainland China) for months on end. Hong Kong is not a big place!

I'll update this forum as my application progresses to give others an idea of how long such applications are really taking.
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Old Apr 12th 2015, 4:11 pm
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Wink Re: Delays in first passport for child born overseas

Originally Posted by Gozit
Yeah, you could try that. Personally, I wouldn't risk it, and as an extreme backup plan I would have family members lined up in UK he could stay with potentially, should he be denied a visa. Because he would be denied boarding by the airline if he did not have a visa, whether in UK p.p or Algerian. I would try and contact the KSA embassy in London if you haven't already


Okey ... I will wait for help from others


That was my biggest worry really.


Yeah, if what i've heard on here and the timeline on the UK Gov website I wouldn't count on that. I had thought they were issuing them on the spot... My bad.


No, your son does not need to be in UK with you in order to get a passport. But they may faff about with interviews; they might ask your wife to be there too. They are really annoying about first time passports for children born overseas, as you can tell.



Yeah. Its annoying because the staff there won't engage with you until the 8 weeks has passed. But right on that 15th May if you still don't know whats happening with your sons passport, I would be on the phone with anyone I could be. Call/write your MP in the UK, call the passport office in Durham, pester the UK embassy, do whatever you need to do to fast track it.



I know its a longshot, but you could try to get him a UK tourist visa in the Algerian passport, i've seen it done on here before, although it isn't recommended by some people here, and then try and see if the KSA embassy in UK will issue him a visa in the Algerian passport. Maybe the embassy might be willing to do it where the office in KSA itself isn't.

More on the tourist visa - if it were me and I was able to get a tourist visa in my British child's non British passport, I would just use it to satisfy the airline, and once I got to the immigration desk in the UK, I would explain and provide proof that child is British, ie birth certificates, parents naturalisation certificate in your case, parents British passport, etc. and that would help ensure the child is allowed into UK as they *cannot* deny a UK citizen entry into the UK, even without a British passport.



Thats a dumb rule. What if say

Father was a British citizen by descent, and used that passport to get into KSA. Other citizenship was an internationally undesireable one in terms of travel agreements - say South African. Mother is of a completely different nationality - say Canadian. The father's nationality is British as registered with KSA since that is the passport that qualified him for the KSA job and work permit - but that nationality is not transferable to the child since the father is British by descent. (and we are assuming here that he does not have the necessary residence requirements to register his child with form MN-1)

Therefore the child is unable to hold the "same" nationality as the father. And i guess it sounds like under that rule wouldn't be issued a residence permit. Ludicrous. Anyway. That was way OT.




I am not British, so I know it really isn't my place to judge, but it really seems they've made a mess of things. IMO they did everything too fast. They basically full stop stopped issuing passports through British missions abroad and forced everyone to send them to Durham, all at the same time. They were unprepared for the mass amounts of applications, and its been a crap chute for the last year or so.

Take Canada - they took forever to start issuing biometric passports (wasn't until 2013) , but the system is really efficient and has been from day 1, and there is adequate facilities for Canadians living abroad and Canadians living in remote areas of Canada itself. Passports are done for people in Canada within 10 business days if you apply in person, and usually 4-5 weeks from abroad (and this is guaranteed and in practise true most of the time).

I come from a small island country with not as much resources (Malta) and I had my Maltese passport in 5 weeks, applying from Canada.

Anyway, i'm cheering for you mate. Hope your holidays go all as planned.
Hi Gozit,

In the midst of my misery & negativity, I have something very strange happened today which is just beyond belief.

Today I have checked the application status of my child's passport online and it has been changed to the following:

Status: Dispatched.
Action: Not available

This is absolutely unbelievable !!! And I don't want to raise expectations here but am I right to think that my child's passport is on its way without checking countersignature and an interview with Embassy?

This is too good to be true, which is why I am starting to think they might have rejected the application?

Please let me know what you think. Cheers!

Last edited by drmysterious; Apr 12th 2015 at 4:13 pm.
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Old Apr 12th 2015, 5:09 pm
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Default Re: Delays in first passport for child born overseas

Originally Posted by drmysterious
Hi Gozit,

In the midst of my misery & negativity, I have something very strange happened today which is just beyond belief.

Today I have checked the application status of my child's passport online and it has been changed to the following:

Status: Dispatched.
Action: Not available

This is absolutely unbelievable !!! And I don't want to raise expectations here but am I right to think that my child's passport is on its way without checking countersignature and an interview with Embassy?

This is too good to be true, which is why I am starting to think they might have rejected the application?

Please let me know what you think. Cheers!
The only thing you can do now is hope for the best.

At least you didn't have to wait that long for a result, unlike most of us.
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Old Apr 12th 2015, 6:11 pm
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Default Re: Delays in first passport for child born overseas

Originally Posted by knighstrike
The only thing you can do now is hope for the best.

At least you didn't have to wait that long for a result, unlike most of us.
I really hope everything goes well because my case is a bit complicated. I can not exit KSA without a British passport for my son.

It is just a bit odd that something is on its way to me without any interview / countersignature check! Waiting to hear from the others whether this is something that could happen?

Pressure is raising now
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Old Apr 13th 2015, 8:03 am
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Default Re: Delays in first passport for child born overseas

Good news. Just a few hours after posting about my application, the passport arrived via DHL. The counter signatory was not contacted and there was no interview. All in all just over 5 months for a straightforward application from Hong Kong. The passport issue date is the 7th and I received it on the 11th.

Good luck to all those still waiting
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Old Apr 13th 2015, 1:54 pm
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Default Re: Delays in first passport for child born overseas

Originally Posted by lukejackson
Good news. Just a few hours after posting about my application, the passport arrived via DHL. The counter signatory was not contacted and there was no interview. All in all just over 5 months for a straightforward application from Hong Kong. The passport issue date is the 7th and I received it on the 11th.

Good luck to all those still waiting
Congratulations ! that's great news really.

I am relieved to know that counter signature and interview were not needed in your case. That gives me a massive moral boost.

I will be looking forward to hear from DHL within the next 4/5 days

Could you please check the online status of your child's passport application and report back? thanks
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Old Apr 15th 2015, 12:34 pm
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Default Re: Delays in first passport for child born overseas

Originally Posted by BritInParis
There's no time limit for consular birth registration. Your son's birth can be registered at any time and from any country including the UK.
I thought I'd check this out as I'm trying to get all my docs together to apply for my baby daughter's application.

So... I go here:
https://www.gov.uk/register-a-birth

click "Start Now"
Enter country "South Africa"

The response:
"You must register the birth according to the regulations in South Africa.

You can’t register the birth with the UK authorities. However, the birth certificate you are given in South Africa will be recognised and accepted in the UK, so this isn’t necessary."

So does this mean that I cannot get a consular birth Certificate or should I instead be approaching the consulate in South Africa?

- My first issue is that my daughter is only 4 months and does not have any form of photo ID as specified in the group 2 supporting docs pdf: https://www.gov.uk/government/public...uments-group-2 - (Table A)
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Old Apr 15th 2015, 11:57 pm
  #945  
 
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Default Re: Delays in first passport for child born overseas

Originally Posted by rayzin
I thought I'd check this out as I'm trying to get all my docs together to apply for my baby daughter's application.

So... I go here:
https://www.gov.uk/register-a-birth

click "Start Now"
Enter country "South Africa"

The response:
"You must register the birth according to the regulations in South Africa.

You can’t register the birth with the UK authorities. However, the birth certificate you are given in South Africa will be recognised and accepted in the UK, so this isn’t necessary."

So does this mean that I cannot get a consular birth Certificate or should I instead be approaching the consulate in South Africa?
Unfortunately consular birth registration is not available in the former Dominions (Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Ireland) or the current British Overseas Territories.

- My first issue is that my daughter is only 4 months and does not have any form of photo ID as specified in the group 2 supporting docs pdf: https://www.gov.uk/government/public...uments-group-2 - (Table A)
Is your daughter eligible for a South African passport?
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