COE application for my daughter born in China

Old Jun 8th 2020, 7:51 am
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Default COE application for my daughter born in China

Hello. I am a UK citizen (UK passport holder, UK born, in 1982). My daughter was born in China, in 2011, she has a chinese passport. Her mother is a chinese citizen.

I am applying for a COE for my daughter and during the application process, other than her chinese passport, and a TB test report, it does not state what else is required. I am guessing i will need to upload or take with me my daughter's chinese passport, TB report, her chinese birth certificate, and my UK passport. Is there anything else i may need to provide?

Also, i have read that biometrics are not required for COE applications. If that is the case, is there a reason i can't just post them the application/documents?

Thanks
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Old Jun 8th 2020, 7:06 pm
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Default Re: COE application for my daughter born in China

YOU were born in the UK; your daughter was born in China in 2011. You are her father.

Why are you applying for a COE and not a passport for your child?
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Old Jun 9th 2020, 4:44 am
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Default Re: COE application for my daughter born in China

Originally Posted by SanDiegogirl View Post
YOU were born in the UK; your daughter was born in China in 2011. You are her father.

Why are you applying for a COE and not a passport for your child?
From what i understand, if my child obtains a UK passport, she cannot use it to exit China unless she applies for something called a "travel document" and in return the chinese authorities will cancel her chinese passport and chinese ID etc, as China does not allow you to hold both local and foreign ID.

She will still be considered as a chinese citizen in China and be able to live here since she is not renouncing citizenship but i have no idea of the pros and cons of both choices. If she lives in China with a UK passport, how will her rights be affected etc. So i figured COE is a good way to keep hold onto her chinese ID and be able to visit/live in UK at the same time.
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Old Jun 9th 2020, 6:07 pm
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Default Re: COE application for my daughter born in China

COE ? Are you referring to the Right of Abode ? https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/788245/Guide_ROA.pdf

Can you not get get a British passport for your child ?

Can you register her birth at the UK Consulate ? Doing that means there is a permanent record of her birth and her claim on British Nationality. My daughters were born in jurisdictions outside the UK. I have twice needed to get birth certificates from them. A phone call and card payment did the trick.

Last edited by scot47; Jun 9th 2020 at 7:44 pm.
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Old Jun 21st 2020, 1:50 am
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Default Re: COE application for my daughter born in China

Originally Posted by SanDiegogirl View Post
.... Why are you applying for a COE and not a passport for your child?
Do you need to have British citizenship before you can apply for a COE?
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Old Jun 21st 2020, 5:02 am
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Default Re: COE application for my daughter born in China

I think the Chinese authorities allow a child to hold dual citizenship until the age of sixteen - or at least, there is a condition of some kind related to age. Try checking that.
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Old Jun 21st 2020, 7:29 am
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Default Re: COE application for my daughter born in China

The link I posted has failed. Use this -
https://www.gov.uk/right-of-abode#:~...entitlement%27.
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Old Jun 21st 2020, 4:54 pm
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Default Re: COE application for my daughter born in China

OP...I think your situation is similar to mine. Our famous BritInParis alerted me to these rules a few years ago and it was a big help.
You should check with the authorities further, but I think the same would apply as with our Son. He was born in a third country, outside of the UK and China, we decided to get him a British passport, hence British by decent. However, since his Mother held Chinese nationality, he is able to have Chinese "citizenship" until the age of 18. This allows him to live in China, attend school in China, and be on the local Hukou. Entering and exiting the country can only be done by means of using the Chinese Travel Document. It's blue and looks like a mini passport. He still presents his British passport as well, but doesn't need a visa to go into China. If you obtain the Travel Document within China, it is only valid for 3 months. However, if you obtain it outside of China, it's valid for 2 years and still only costs about £18, takes 4 days!

First of all your daughter was born inside China, I don't think that makes any difference, if I'm correct.
However, you've obtained Chinese nationality for her which means if you obtain British nationality, then Chinese nationality would be immediately cancelled. China does not allow dual nationality at all. If you switched her to British nationality, then I believe her status would then match that of our Son, and she would be able to live, exit and enter China without visas until the age of 18. If your Wife had Chinese status at the time your daughter was born, then that is what counts and your daughter would therefore retain that Chinese citizenship. If your Wife naturalised as a British citizen later, she would lose her Chinese citizenship, although your daughter should still retain citizenship until 18.

The following links to the Nationality Law of China might be useful:-
https://www.immd.gov.hk/eng/resident...inese/law.html
https://assets.publishing.service.go...ina_201609.pdf
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Old Jun 29th 2020, 8:29 am
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Default Re: COE application for my daughter born in China

Thanks for all the replies with links etc, much appreciated.

It is the ROA (right of abode) for my daughter which i'm in the process of applying from China. I have made the payment (almost 400GBP) but not yet gathered the documents or booked an appointment. Having an ROA placed in my daughter's chinese passport, from my understanding, will not result in her hukou/ID being cancelled. However, if i were to obtain a UK passport instead, her hukou/ID would certainly be cancelled by the PSB the moment i place an application for the exit and entry permit. Yes???

As far as i know, having her hukou/ID cancelled DOES NOT affect her chinese citizenship/nationality (which she got through her chinese mother). These are 2 seperate things. I've read that renouncing chinese citizenship is a different process altogether from cancelling hukou/ID and can take several months or longer. Once citizenship is renounced, my daughter would need to obtain a chinese visa to enter China, just like me.

I have not found any information about a child being able to hold and USE both hukou/ID and UK passport at the same time until the age of 16. Is there any solid evidence on this? I have checked the links posted and will check them again. The other question that runs through my mind is, suppose i cancelled the application of ROA and decided to get my daughter a UK passport instead (which is just 1/4 of the price), would it be a simple process to get her hukou restored in the future if required?

It's really a question of what will serve her better whilst living in China. Other than being able to go to public/private school, is there anything other importance of hukou/ID? I heard that in certain regions of China, even chinese citizens that hold foreign passports can attend public schools and private schools, it's not something i'm too concerned about, it's just other things i may be missing.
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Old Jun 29th 2020, 9:11 am
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Default Re: COE application for my daughter born in China

Morning!
Your situation is perhaps the "reverse" to ours. In that my son has always had British nationality, and never Chinese. So we can't say for certain whether giving up Chinese nationality in the hope for then to be able to regain recognition for the Hukou due to one parent being Chinese, whether that would work or not. As I mentioned, my son has his Hukou in Shanghai, no problem just applying with the local Police station, which of course saw and took copies of his British passport.
There are factors to consider, such as where you live. Other provinces might not be so flexible as Shanghai. Even when we first enquired about obtaining a Travel Document for him from the Immigration Bureau, the first 2-3 people we spoke to had no idea about this and wanted to cut the conversation rather than enquire further. It was only when we spoke to someone with seniority and experience that it was acknowledged.
As my wife said, there's no point for a laogai to be asking a laowai about this. Better for your wife to make enquiries with the local authorities to get certain answers, maybe documented, before you give up Chinese nationality at this stage. In the future, it can still be done and swapped for British nationality (you apply for that first before telling the Chinese), but maybe for now, it might be better to hang on to Chinese nationality as it might be better. Just our thoughts based on experience on that one.

Perhaps more important to ensure that she can apply for British nationality in the future after obtaining Right of Abode in the meantime, in case there are any hiccups. Your option to apply for British nationality and give up Chinese nationality might be prompted instead by a move back to the UK in future so that you don't have that extra applicant for the spouse visa process.
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Old Jun 29th 2020, 1:12 pm
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Default Re: COE application for my daughter born in China

Originally Posted by MonsterP View Post
Morning!
Your situation is perhaps the "reverse" to ours. In that my son has always had British nationality, and never Chinese. So we can't say for certain whether giving up Chinese nationality in the hope for then to be able to regain recognition for the Hukou due to one parent being Chinese, whether that would work or not. As I mentioned, my son has his Hukou in Shanghai, no problem just applying with the local Police station, which of course saw and took copies of his British passport.
There are factors to consider, such as where you live. Other provinces might not be so flexible as Shanghai. Even when we first enquired about obtaining a Travel Document for him from the Immigration Bureau, the first 2-3 people we spoke to had no idea about this and wanted to cut the conversation rather than enquire further. It was only when we spoke to someone with seniority and experience that it was acknowledged.
As my wife said, there's no point for a laogai to be asking a laowai about this. Better for your wife to make enquiries with the local authorities to get certain answers, maybe documented, before you give up Chinese nationality at this stage. In the future, it can still be done and swapped for British nationality (you apply for that first before telling the Chinese), but maybe for now, it might be better to hang on to Chinese nationality as it might be better. Just our thoughts based on experience on that one.

Perhaps more important to ensure that she can apply for British nationality in the future after obtaining Right of Abode in the meantime, in case there are any hiccups. Your option to apply for British nationality and give up Chinese nationality might be prompted instead by a move back to the UK in future so that you don't have that extra applicant for the spouse visa process.
Hi. Ok, so your son was not born in china or uk, but he automatically became a uk national according to uk law. You got him a uk passport and took him to china using uk passport + chinese visa. Whilst in china you got him registered in shanghai at the PSB so he obtained a hukou and they also granted him the travel document so he could enter/exit china freely using his uk passport. They did not say anything about how your son cannot keep hold onto the hukou if he was to obtain a travel document????

Also, i am a little bit confused when you talk about giving up chinese nationality...isn't there a difference between giving up hukou and giving up chinese nationality? From what i have read online, i found that if a child decides to have a foreign passport, the child can no longer hold a hukou and chinese passport. However, this does not mean chinese nationality has been lost, she can continue living in china without a need for a chinese visa in her uk passport.
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Old Jun 29th 2020, 3:05 pm
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Default Re: COE application for my daughter born in China

...nearly but not quite. I'll summarise:-
- One parent Chinese, one parent British (me)
- Son born in Thailand whilst we were officially living there under visa
- No eligibility to Thai nationality since neither Mother or Father are Thai
- Options were therefore to apply for Chinese nationality or British nationality. We chose British. Registered the birth with the UK via the British Embassy after getting translations of the Thai birth certificate. Also, at the same time, applied for a British passport. All easy, and the registration cost more than the passport! I wouldn't call it automatic as you don't get one unless you apply, but perhaps your rights to it are automatic is what you mean.
- Applied for Travel Document whilst in Thailand, to travel to Shanghai, such being a good idea as it gives 2 years validity for in and out travel.
- Moved back to China a year later after circumstances changed
- After the Travel Document ran out further subsequent Travel Documents to exit and enter China again, had to be applied from Shanghai, but validity is only for 3 months each time. He's had five in China alone during those four years.
- In the meantime, before moving to the UK after a couple of years, we visited the local Police station and registered him under my Wife's Hukou, which enabled him to attend local public school (kindergarten) and in turn get a Chinese ID card.
- We've got another Travel Document for China, from the Embassy in Manchester, since moving to the UK, which again enjoys the 2 year validity.
- My son has never needed a visa for China since he is recognised as a Chinese citizen until the age of 18 under the nationality law I posted to you previously.

The Hukou is different from the passport, especially in this sense that our son was born outside of the country and he entered China on a Travel Document. We understand that when he turns 18, and if he keeps his British nationality, he may or may not keep Hukou registration. However, we believe that a child born in China would no longer have such an option to keep the Hukou because once they plan to leave the country for travelling, they will need to declare which nationality they will be. If they declare they are now British, then all Chinese nationality would then be cancelled, and such the Hukou too. Yes, I think you're right about being able to then still live in China afterwards, but with a visa as a foreigner. This is how we understand it and there is similar wording in the nationality law.

I suppose this brings the question as to why you started the post? Just for convenient holiday travel to make entry to the UK easier is one thing where the ROA might work, but if you are leaving China and moving to the UK, that's a bigger thing to consider. Either way, we suggest spending a day at the immigration bureau to clarify what your options are in each circumstance and what then you should do to avoid any problems at airport check-in/immigration when flying out of China.

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Old Jun 30th 2020, 2:32 am
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Default Re: COE application for my daughter born in China

Originally Posted by MonsterP View Post
...nearly but not quite. I'll summarise:-
- One parent Chinese, one parent British (me)
- Son born in Thailand whilst we were officially living there under visa
- No eligibility to Thai nationality since neither Mother or Father are Thai
- Options were therefore to apply for Chinese nationality or British nationality. We chose British. Registered the birth with the UK via the British Embassy after getting translations of the Thai birth certificate. Also, at the same time, applied for a British passport. All easy, and the registration cost more than the passport! I wouldn't call it automatic as you don't get one unless you apply, but perhaps your rights to it are automatic is what you mean.
- Applied for Travel Document whilst in Thailand, to travel to Shanghai, such being a good idea as it gives 2 years validity for in and out travel.
- Moved back to China a year later after circumstances changed
- After the Travel Document ran out further subsequent Travel Documents to exit and enter China again, had to be applied from Shanghai, but validity is only for 3 months each time. He's had five in China alone during those four years.
- In the meantime, before moving to the UK after a couple of years, we visited the local Police station and registered him under my Wife's Hukou, which enabled him to attend local public school (kindergarten) and in turn get a Chinese ID card.
- We've got another Travel Document for China, from the Embassy in Manchester, since moving to the UK, which again enjoys the 2 year validity.
- My son has never needed a visa for China since he is recognised as a Chinese citizen until the age of 18 under the nationality law I posted to you previously.

The Hukou is different from the passport, especially in this sense that our son was born outside of the country and he entered China on a Travel Document. We understand that when he turns 18, and if he keeps his British nationality, he may or may not keep Hukou registration. However, we believe that a child born in China would no longer have such an option to keep the Hukou because once they plan to leave the country for travelling, they will need to declare which nationality they will be. If they declare they are now British, then all Chinese nationality would then be cancelled, and such the Hukou too. Yes, I think you're right about being able to then still live in China afterwards, but with a visa as a foreigner. This is how we understand it and there is similar wording in the nationality law.

I suppose this brings the question as to why you started the post? Just for convenient holiday travel to make entry to the UK easier is one thing where the ROA might work, but if you are leaving China and moving to the UK, that's a bigger thing to consider. Either way, we suggest spending a day at the immigration bureau to clarify what your options are in each circumstance and what then you should do to avoid any problems at airport check-in/immigration when flying out of China.
Ok...since chinese law recognized your son as a chinese national (due to her mother), he was granted a travel document in thailand. He now holds hukou, ID card, travel document and uk passport. Other than being born in different places, your son and my daughters situation seems to be the same in terms of eligibility.

The thing puzzling me is that your son was able to register a hukou, without issues regards to nationality conflict due to holding a uk passport. Please take a look at where i got my information from and see what you make of it: https://lawandborder.com/applying-ex...-permit-child/

I have not made up my mind where and what my daughter will do. The application for ROA is something i thought is useful should we need to go uk and back to china whether it is for general visits or emergencies, long stays or small stays, i do plan to take her uk soon to see family. It's just that from my findings online, i learned that she cannot continue to keep her hukou, chinese ID card, chinese passport should she apply for a travel document because holding a uk passport suggests uk nationality.
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Old Jun 30th 2020, 11:56 am
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Default Re: COE application for my daughter born in China

I'm afraid there are differences between the two situations, being that your daughter was born INSIDE China, and has a CHINESE passport already.
I don't believe she would not be able to apply for a Travel Document as it's not necessary (since she is Chinese and has a Chinese passport). However, I think I remember reading that they do also use the Travel Document on a temporary basis for those Chinese who have lost their passports whilst abroad.

Dual Nationality is absolutely not recognised by China. Some years ago, people tried to be clever and obtain a foreign passport. Therefore using the Chinese passport to enter China, but the foreign passport to exit China. Circumventing the system like that was all stopped when Chinese immigration insisted that the same passport be used for entry and exit.

I briefly read that ROA, Right of Abode, in the UK is proved by holding a British passport. Probably not the option you want to consider unless you definitely want to renounce Chinese nationality etc. COE, Certificate of Entitlement, for the UK MIGHT be your solution in the meantime for convenience. This certificate is put into the foreigners passport to allow them to enter the UK. There's not much more explanation than that from what I read on the gov.uk website. You need to consider whether having this certificate in her Chinese passport might have an impact on her Chinese citizenship or not. Something you need to find out.

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Old Jul 1st 2020, 7:50 am
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Default Re: COE application for my daughter born in China

Yes, i think this first time i will proceed with the ROA application since my daughter already has a chinese passport. The ROA acts as a foreign visa inside the Chinese passport hence there should not be any issues.

This whole dual nationality thing can be confusing in all honesty, i mean take your son for example, you say until the age of 18, he can live in China at will with hukou and ID card and is regarded as a chinese citizen, but also he holds a UK passport allowing him to live in UK at will, as a UK citizen- how is that not dual nationality? Atleast until age 18, it seems like dual nationality.

Moving on to the ROA, what documents did you need to provide at minimum for your son's UK passport? I want to make a comparison with ROA. For the ROA application, so far, i have found i need some of what is stated in the images attached.










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