Citizenship by Double Descent /Discretion

Old May 17th 2022, 7:53 pm
  #1  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: May 2022
Posts: 6
wander_strawberry is an unknown quantity at this point
Question Citizenship by Double Descent /Discretion

Hello

It appears I might be eligible for citizenship based on discretion or double descent, however I am not sure if my country of birth qualifies as a qualifying country? Here are my facts, hesitant to hire an immigration specialist if the application won't be successful.
  • Myself born 1984 in the US and am US citizen
  • Father born in US 1951 and is US Citizen
  • Paternal Grandmother was born 1929 in the UK and died a UK Citizen
  • parents were married before 1 January 1983
Other facts
  • Living in Ireland for 3 years on Critical Skills Stamp
Thank you for your advice
Ashley

wander_strawberry is offline  
Old May 17th 2022, 8:52 pm
  #2  
 
BritInParis's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Not in Paris
Posts: 17,477
BritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Citizenship by Double Descent /Discretion

Was your father ever registered as a British citizen?
BritInParis is offline  
Old May 17th 2022, 9:43 pm
  #3  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: May 2022
Posts: 6
wander_strawberry is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Citizenship by Double Descent /Discretion

No he didn't register but it looks like he is eligible for citizenship by descent. At the moment he has only US Citizenship
wander_strawberry is offline  
Old May 17th 2022, 10:13 pm
  #4  
 
BritInParis's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Not in Paris
Posts: 17,477
BritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Citizenship by Double Descent /Discretion

Your father appears to be eligible to register for British citizenship however you do not appear to have an entitlement yourself. If you have lived in Ireland for three years then another two and you will be eligible to naturalise giving you an Irish passport which for all practical purposes gives you the same rights as a British citizen when living in the UK.
BritInParis is offline  
Old May 17th 2022, 11:25 pm
  #5  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: May 2022
Posts: 6
wander_strawberry is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Citizenship by Double Descent /Discretion

Thanks for your response, I am aware the current law might not have a way. Any insight into this new legislation? I heard this will be implemented in Oct 2022

British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

The UK Government entered into a treaty with the United Nations some years ago to enshrine equal rights for women. Included in the Treaty is the right for their children (and potentially, their grandchildren) to acquire her citizenship by descent on the same terms as if such a right had come down the paternal side of the family. While the UK has passed legislation to allow such claims, the Home Office has interpreted this legislation in relation to making claims to British Nationality by descent to be effective only for those born in the first generation. The existing stance of the UK Government therefore did not fully address gender discrimination in relation to citizenship applications.

It was only in 1983 that the issue of gender discrimination in British nationality law was addressed for the first time. However, there remained many areas in the law that were not taken into account, and several further changes have been made in the years since 1983 to remedy these. But the complexities of the old laws, and the legacy of the British colonial empire, meant that instances of unfairness still remain today.

Philip Gamble, founder and our Senior Partner and widely regarded as the world's leading British nationality expert on the subject, has made representations to the Parliamentary sub-committee that is looking into this issue. The draft legislation that he has seen appears to properly address the unfairness of the older law. Accordingly, it should be possible to lodge an application if one can demonstrate that - had it not been for gender discrimination in the old law - an applicant would (or could) have British nationality in the modern day. Based on your family tree, it appears that such an application would be successful. While the theory is complex, this solution broadly requires the following:

- Applicant born in a qualifying country;

- Applicant born between 1 January 1983 and 31 December 1987;

- Applicant's parents were married before 1 January 1983; AND

- Applicant's grandparent born in the UK.

PLEASE NOTE: This law gained Royal Assent on Thursday 28 April 2022, and is expected to become effective in the months following this date (around October 2022). However, we will be taking on cases now on a strictly first-come, first-serve basis in anticipation of this implementation date. This is because we will include a formal assessment of the applicant´s nationality status and an opinion on the likely success of their application, as well as setting out the documents that the home Office will require.
wander_strawberry is offline  
Old May 18th 2022, 2:32 pm
  #6  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 64
jmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Citizenship by Double Descent /Discretion

Originally Posted by wander_strawberry View Post
Thanks for your response, I am aware the current law might not have a way. Any insight into this new legislation? I heard this will be implemented in Oct 2022

British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

The UK Government entered into a treaty with the United Nations some years ago to enshrine equal rights for women. Included in the Treaty is the right for their children (and potentially, their grandchildren) to acquire her citizenship by descent on the same terms as if such a right had come down the paternal side of the family. While the UK has passed legislation to allow such claims, the Home Office has interpreted this legislation in relation to making claims to British Nationality by descent to be effective only for those born in the first generation. The existing stance of the UK Government therefore did not fully address gender discrimination in relation to citizenship applications.

It was only in 1983 that the issue of gender discrimination in British nationality law was addressed for the first time. However, there remained many areas in the law that were not taken into account, and several further changes have been made in the years since 1983 to remedy these. But the complexities of the old laws, and the legacy of the British colonial empire, meant that instances of unfairness still remain today.

Philip Gamble, founder and our Senior Partner and widely regarded as the world's leading British nationality expert on the subject, has made representations to the Parliamentary sub-committee that is looking into this issue. The draft legislation that he has seen appears to properly address the unfairness of the older law. Accordingly, it should be possible to lodge an application if one can demonstrate that - had it not been for gender discrimination in the old law - an applicant would (or could) have British nationality in the modern day. Based on your family tree, it appears that such an application would be successful. While the theory is complex, this solution broadly requires the following:

- Applicant born in a qualifying country;

- Applicant born between 1 January 1983 and 31 December 1987;

- Applicant's parents were married before 1 January 1983; AND

- Applicant's grandparent born in the UK.

PLEASE NOTE: This law gained Royal Assent on Thursday 28 April 2022, and is expected to become effective in the months following this date (around October 2022). However, we will be taking on cases now on a strictly first-come, first-serve basis in anticipation of this implementation date. This is because we will include a formal assessment of the applicant´s nationality status and an opinion on the likely success of their application, as well as setting out the documents that the Home Office will require.
You will probably be able to register once the guidance is released. The group marketing this solution are doing so before the Secretary of State issues guidance on what "historical legislative unfairness" means as applies to section 4L of the new Act. You will need to wait until the guidance is released. I would not pay this group before the guidance is released and after it is released it will be something you could easily do yourself (which is one reason why they are sending these emails now and not after).

There are two ways for this claim to be valid.The first is the one you quoted which, as I understand it, is based on a transitional registration period with BNA 1981 (1983-1987) combined with gender discrimination. BNA 1981 had a 12 month transitional registration period which was continued with the end date being 31 December 1987. Therefore you would argue that if there was no gender discrimination your father would have been a citizen/registered and since you were born in 1984, he could have then registered you. This will probably be in the guidance.

The second route would be based on your father having spent three years in the UK before your were born. It is a near certainty that this route will be included in the guidance. Did he spend three years in the UK? This is from 3(2) BNA 1981.

The text of the Nationality and Borders Act is not the first google search result so here it is for you and others who are interested. Point 8 under Powers of the Secretary of State relating to citizenship etc applies to your situation.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga...ntents/enacted

Last edited by jmin; May 18th 2022 at 2:53 pm.
jmin is offline  
Old May 19th 2022, 7:23 pm
  #7  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: May 2022
Posts: 6
wander_strawberry is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Citizenship by Double Descent /Discretion

Hi

Thank you for your assistance, I will look through the document.

My father has never been to the UK so it looks like the first route would be the likely available option.

I understand from this article below released yesterday that section 8 regarding citizenship of the Nationality & Borders Act 2022 has commenced into force right away as of April 28th?

freemovement.org.uk/nationality-and-borders-act-in-force/


thank you


Last edited by wander_strawberry; May 19th 2022 at 7:40 pm.
wander_strawberry is offline  
Old May 19th 2022, 7:46 pm
  #8  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 64
jmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Citizenship by Double Descent /Discretion

Originally Posted by wander_strawberry View Post
Hi

Thank you for your assistance, I will look through the document.

My father has never been to the UK so it looks like the first route would be the likely available option.

So you feel it will be easy to do this case solo once its released in October? The agency stressed a long wait list and to sign up now.

thanks
To the extent there is a waitlist, it is entirely on the agency's end as they cannot submit any registration applications until the guidance is published. There is always a waitlist on the government's end with registrations, for example, UKM Romein registrations routinely take six months at this point. So whether you used the agency or submitted it yourself, the timeline would be:
October 2022: Guidance is released
October-November 2022: You submit your registration documents
April 2023: Approved.

If you read the email again you will see the urgency aspect is more of a selling tactic.

However, we will be taking on cases now on a strictly first-come, first-serve basis in anticipation of this implementation date. This is because we will include a formal assessment of the applicant´s nationality status and an opinion on the likely success of their application, as well as setting out the documents that the home Office will require.
If you use the agency they will collect your money, provide you with an assessment, and tell you what documents you will require. When the guidance is eventually released I would imagine that they will submit all of their registration applications at once. The agency has already compiled a list of 60+ new scenarios that they believe the guidance will provide a new route for. They have their arguments for each prepared and revisions await the release of the guidance.

I believe their pricing model follows these steps:
Free initial assessment
Paid formal assessment (what is being addressed here)
Paid application service

If the step here is a paid formal assessment you will be paying them money for something they cannot yet tell you. If it turns out later that you are ineligible then I believe you would have paid for something with no value, although perhaps there are refunds to cover this scenario.

If you wait for the guidance to be published the Home Office will tell you who qualifies and what documents you will require - for free. They publish official guidance that helps the public and their examiners understand who qualifies and what documents are required. You can also ask here for clarification. If you want to use the agency for peace of mind they are very efficient and would have your registration application submitted in short order. I used this agency for my own (complex) application and they are good at what they do.

Last edited by jmin; May 19th 2022 at 7:51 pm.
jmin is offline  
Old May 19th 2022, 8:04 pm
  #9  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 64
jmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Citizenship by Double Descent /Discretion

The guidance from the Secretary of State on what historical legislative unfairness means has not yet been released. That is why the agency refers to October and not April.
jmin is offline  
Old May 19th 2022, 11:43 pm
  #10  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: May 2022
Posts: 6
wander_strawberry is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Citizenship by Double Descent /Discretion

Great that was very helpful, thanks so much
wander_strawberry is offline  
Old May 21st 2022, 7:49 am
  #11  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: May 2022
Posts: 6
wander_strawberry is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Citizenship by Double Descent /Discretion

How would one apply for this when it is released? Would this be an adjustment to the UK Ancestry Visa?
wander_strawberry is offline  
Old May 21st 2022, 10:41 am
  #12  
 
BritInParis's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Not in Paris
Posts: 17,477
BritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Citizenship by Double Descent /Discretion

As you’re not a Commonwealth citizen you do not qualify for a UK Ancestry visa. You’ll need to wait until October to see whether your particular set of circumstances are addressed by the new guidance regarding historical gender discrimination in British nationality law. If so then you may have a route to register as a British citizen.
BritInParis is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.