Citizen by descent - legitimate domicile/ form UKF / adoption questions
Jul 12th 2021, 11:08 am
#1
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Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 2
Citizen by descent - legitimate domicile/ form UKF / adoption questions
Hello,
I am considering applying for British citizenship by descent - if I can get all my documents in order. I'm hung up on a few areas though.
Here are basic details:
I was born 1987 in the US.
Mother is US citizen.
Birth father was British citizen (born in England/UK 1942). He died(1994) and is buried in the US. (Using online records I found some info about his baptism including his parents names, so I think I can find his birth certificate and maybe his parents marriage certificate? In the US I should be able to request another copy of his death certificate)
They never married.
After he died my step father (US citizen) adopted me, my surname was changed, and I was issued a new birth certificate. My original birth certificate is sealed. I think I can petition the courts to get a copy, but I'm not sure how hard that will be. Assuming I can get a copy that brings me to confusion about my status.
I know that now days people can register and apply for citizenship using for UKF for unmarried fathers.
But research also brought me info about legitimacy. That - if the parents marry after the child is born - the child can become legitimate and have a claim to citizenship.
HOWEVER, the document titled "Legitimation and domicile" also states:
The same document also lists USA as:
---
I saw some online document samples show my birth father and one of his previous wives doing something regarding a property (home purchase document? not sure). I think it was many years before I was born, so that may help prove he was domiciled in the US and not just visiting.
So, this brings me to my question. If I have a 'legitimate' unmarried birth, do I acquire British citizenship automatically or does it just entitle me to register to apply?
Should I try to apply directly for a passport (with supporting documents)? Or should I just use form UKF for unmarried fathers?
Also, since I was adopted after his death (therefore, he never gave up any of his rights), I don't lose my claim to citizenship, do I?
Thank you!
I am considering applying for British citizenship by descent - if I can get all my documents in order. I'm hung up on a few areas though.
Here are basic details:
I was born 1987 in the US.
Mother is US citizen.
Birth father was British citizen (born in England/UK 1942). He died(1994) and is buried in the US. (Using online records I found some info about his baptism including his parents names, so I think I can find his birth certificate and maybe his parents marriage certificate? In the US I should be able to request another copy of his death certificate)
They never married.
After he died my step father (US citizen) adopted me, my surname was changed, and I was issued a new birth certificate. My original birth certificate is sealed. I think I can petition the courts to get a copy, but I'm not sure how hard that will be. Assuming I can get a copy that brings me to confusion about my status.
I know that now days people can register and apply for citizenship using for UKF for unmarried fathers.
But research also brought me info about legitimacy. That - if the parents marry after the child is born - the child can become legitimate and have a claim to citizenship.
HOWEVER, the document titled "Legitimation and domicile" also states:
In UK law, when considering questions of legitimacy, we look at the law of the place where the father was domiciled at the time of the child’s birth. If that law treats a child as legitimate, then UK law will likewise recognise that status [Hashmi v Hashmi (1972)].
Therefore, if there is no concept of illegitimacy according to the law of the place of the father's domicile at the time of the child's birth, the child born outside a marriage will be considered legitimate in UK law irrespective of whether the child's parents subsequently marry. Such a child will have a claim to British Citizenship.
Therefore, if there is no concept of illegitimacy according to the law of the place of the father's domicile at the time of the child's birth, the child born outside a marriage will be considered legitimate in UK law irrespective of whether the child's parents subsequently marry. Such a child will have a claim to British Citizenship.
USA --- No distinction between children born in or outside a marriage --- Child is legitimate whether the parents are married or not
I saw some online document samples show my birth father and one of his previous wives doing something regarding a property (home purchase document? not sure). I think it was many years before I was born, so that may help prove he was domiciled in the US and not just visiting.
So, this brings me to my question. If I have a 'legitimate' unmarried birth, do I acquire British citizenship automatically or does it just entitle me to register to apply?
Should I try to apply directly for a passport (with supporting documents)? Or should I just use form UKF for unmarried fathers?
Also, since I was adopted after his death (therefore, he never gave up any of his rights), I don't lose my claim to citizenship, do I?
Thank you!
Jul 12th 2021, 4:01 pm
#2
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Not in Paris
Posts: 18,193
Re: Citizen by descent - legitimate domicile/ form UKF / adoption questions
Your issue will be proving your biological father was domiciled in the US for the purposes of British nationality law at the time of your birth given that he is now deceased and therefore gathering the necessary evidence may prove difficult. For the sake of £80 it may be just simpler to go through the UKF registration process. And no, your entitlement to British citizenship is not affected by your adoption.
I would use FreeBMD to look up his birth registration details which will then allow you order a copy of his birth certificate from the GRO. You don’t need your grandparents’ certificates. You will both your pre and post adoption birth certificates. If you have changed your name since your adoption then you’ll need to provide evidence of your additional change of name, e.g. marriage certificate.
I would use FreeBMD to look up his birth registration details which will then allow you order a copy of his birth certificate from the GRO. You don’t need your grandparents’ certificates. You will both your pre and post adoption birth certificates. If you have changed your name since your adoption then you’ll need to provide evidence of your additional change of name, e.g. marriage certificate.
Jul 12th 2021, 4:26 pm
#3
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 154
Re: Citizen by descent - legitimate domicile/ form UKF / adoption questions
UKF route would be simpler unless you have records showing he was domiciled in the USA at the time of your birth. What you have does not show that.
Ideas if you do not want to go the UKF route at first:
Family photos together at your birth along with some documentary evidence, such as medical records listing father's address in the USA.
FOIA request for father's social security records, assuming he had a social security card. You would want more than just the numindent record, though. You would want his earnings history.
Obituary about his life in the USA?
If you know your father's addresses, you could potentially find local and state tax records.
IRS request for decedent's tax records?
How long does his state's dmv maintain their records and are they requestable?
It would help if your mother or his family could assist you. Could always do some research, find some family members, and email them. They can confirm when your father moved to the USA, etc.
Detailed UK government guidance on your situation and what you will need to submit to them.
Although your birth certificate is sealed, you don't have a certified copy?
Ideas if you do not want to go the UKF route at first:
Family photos together at your birth along with some documentary evidence, such as medical records listing father's address in the USA.
FOIA request for father's social security records, assuming he had a social security card. You would want more than just the numindent record, though. You would want his earnings history.
Obituary about his life in the USA?
If you know your father's addresses, you could potentially find local and state tax records.
IRS request for decedent's tax records?
How long does his state's dmv maintain their records and are they requestable?
It would help if your mother or his family could assist you. Could always do some research, find some family members, and email them. They can confirm when your father moved to the USA, etc.
Detailed UK government guidance on your situation and what you will need to submit to them.
Although your birth certificate is sealed, you don't have a certified copy?
Jul 12th 2021, 9:16 pm
#4
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 2
Re: Citizen by descent - legitimate domicile/ form UKF / adoption questions
Thanks for the replies.
Regarding my birth certificate: My mom says after the adoption they took my original birth certificate from her. I think if I can get it unsealed, it won't be a 'certified' copy because it is no longer legally valid (only my post adoption birth certificate is valid now).
Sounds like UKF form might be easier, then? I was just reading that it could get rejected if you're already a citizen even if you didn't know.
His and my mom's relationship didn't last long (maybe a year-ish) and I have no memories or photos from him. Turns out he was uh... already married which my mom found out the hard way. After my mom left him I didn't see him any more (no custody ruling - my mom kept me and he carried on with his life. He did refuse to give up rights when my mom wanted my step dad to adopt me, but I have no records of this). I don't know any of his relatives (and I have no interest).
(I don't know if his relatives knew about me or not. But I did hear that once he had wanted to take me back to England - possibly by kidnapping because he hadn't discussed it with my mom first. But you can't take a child out of the US without permission from both parents, so he wasn't able to take me anywhere. I don't think he registered my birth with the embassy, but I don't know.)
After he died I collected social security survivor benefits until I turned 18. So, I think that means he did have a social security number. I think my mom said he worked at an airport.
Online I did see several documents relating to a house with his name and his previous wife's name on it. It includes the address for the property. As well as a another document (before he died) transferring power of attorney to his current wife because he was too sick or something. (All in Florida, which is also where I was born)
Using ancestry searches online, I did find a gravestone that looks like it might be his, and it lists him as having served in the US air force during the Vietnam War. I don't know anything about that, maybe there is some way to find records.
Regarding my birth certificate: My mom says after the adoption they took my original birth certificate from her. I think if I can get it unsealed, it won't be a 'certified' copy because it is no longer legally valid (only my post adoption birth certificate is valid now).
Sounds like UKF form might be easier, then? I was just reading that it could get rejected if you're already a citizen even if you didn't know.
His and my mom's relationship didn't last long (maybe a year-ish) and I have no memories or photos from him. Turns out he was uh... already married which my mom found out the hard way. After my mom left him I didn't see him any more (no custody ruling - my mom kept me and he carried on with his life. He did refuse to give up rights when my mom wanted my step dad to adopt me, but I have no records of this). I don't know any of his relatives (and I have no interest).
(I don't know if his relatives knew about me or not. But I did hear that once he had wanted to take me back to England - possibly by kidnapping because he hadn't discussed it with my mom first. But you can't take a child out of the US without permission from both parents, so he wasn't able to take me anywhere. I don't think he registered my birth with the embassy, but I don't know.)
After he died I collected social security survivor benefits until I turned 18. So, I think that means he did have a social security number. I think my mom said he worked at an airport.
Online I did see several documents relating to a house with his name and his previous wife's name on it. It includes the address for the property. As well as a another document (before he died) transferring power of attorney to his current wife because he was too sick or something. (All in Florida, which is also where I was born)
Using ancestry searches online, I did find a gravestone that looks like it might be his, and it lists him as having served in the US air force during the Vietnam War. I don't know anything about that, maybe there is some way to find records.
Jul 13th 2021, 7:23 am
#5
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 154
Re: Citizen by descent - legitimate domicile/ form UKF / adoption questions
If he had thought about bringing you to the UK, it's possible that he applied for a passport for you. You could request your own UK passport records. You will need a legal document showing your change of name which perhaps you have - detail your situation in the additional information section. Otherwise, you will need your birth certificate or adoption records. Can also request your father's records which could be another piece showing that he renewed in the USA and when. It does not take long to receive a reply.
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...s-request-form
If you were also adopted in Florida, unsealing the birth certificate should be relatively simple assuming your mother agrees with the request and you produce his death certificate. Request the birth certificate first then move to the next steps.
US military records are requestable. Given what you say about his service, it would appear that he was domiciled in the USA for 20+ years. You will want his DD214 but that alone won't prove anything about when you were born, although it would support the idea that he had permanently moved to the states.
Request his social security and military records. When you do the FOIA request to social security ask for his earnings history since you would want to show he was working in the states when you were born. This should be the simplest solution to show evidence that he was living in the USA when you were born. Since you received survivor benefits, he had to have had some work history. Perhaps also request your own records relating to your survivor benefits and under what basis they were awarded. There is a section in the FOIA request where you can detail exactly what you want.
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...s-request-form
If you were also adopted in Florida, unsealing the birth certificate should be relatively simple assuming your mother agrees with the request and you produce his death certificate. Request the birth certificate first then move to the next steps.
US military records are requestable. Given what you say about his service, it would appear that he was domiciled in the USA for 20+ years. You will want his DD214 but that alone won't prove anything about when you were born, although it would support the idea that he had permanently moved to the states.
Request his social security and military records. When you do the FOIA request to social security ask for his earnings history since you would want to show he was working in the states when you were born. This should be the simplest solution to show evidence that he was living in the USA when you were born. Since you received survivor benefits, he had to have had some work history. Perhaps also request your own records relating to your survivor benefits and under what basis they were awarded. There is a section in the FOIA request where you can detail exactly what you want.
