Re: Childs Right to British Citizenship to British parents born outside the UK
 

Yes, that rings a bell. I think the applicant must show strong enduring ties to Germany. If you want to figure this bit out, try posting on BE's Germany forum.

Re: Childs Right to British Citizenship to British parents born outside the UK
 

If the OP's wife was born overseas to serving British military personnel then British nationality law determines her to be a British citizen otherwise than by descent therefore any child born overseas would automatically be British at birth.

As the second generation born overseas I would highly recommend the OP considers British consular birth registration in order to provide the child with a permanent record of their British citizenship which doesn't rely on secondary documents that may be lost and hard to replace. The OP's wife should have a British military birth certificate which is normally sufficient evidence of her British citizenship status for this purpose.

Regarding German citizenship the OP needs to clarify which citizenship(s) his parents held at the time of his birth and if they were British whether they were in Crown service. German nationality law is based on the principle of jus sanguinis - merely being born in Germany does not confer German citizenship. Also whether the birth took place in a military or civilian hospital is irrelevant. It's the citizenship status of the parents at the time of birth that is important.

Re: Childs Right to British Citizenship to British parents born outside the UK
 

Thanks everyone for the detailed and expert input - agreed consular birth registration for the child sounds valuable in the long term; I'll pursue this course of action.

With regards to German citizenship - none of my parents were German at the time of my birth (both British), so I have no entitlement to German citizenship by descent. They were, however, naturalized as Germans a few years ago.

My father was employed in Germany as a British civil servant at the time of my birth, but not the military. Out of interest, does the nationality law treat all births to British civil servants living abroad the same as being born on British soil (thus making me British otherwise than by descent), or does this just apply to active Crown military personnel?

Re: Childs Right to British Citizenship to British parents born outside the UK
 

The requirement is that one of your parents was "in crown service" when you were born. There is no requirement that they be in the military, though obviously children of military personnel make up a large proportion of the births covered by the "in crown service" provision.

Re: Childs Right to British Citizenship to British parents born outside the UK
 

Crown servants. But it doesn't matter, your wife is good to go.

Re: Childs Right to British Citizenship to British parents born outside the UK
 

Some muddling of terminology. 'Crown service' refers to anyone directly employed by HMG. Commonly this would mean military or diplomatic personnel but would include any other civil servant. The key element is that the Crown servant in question was recruited in the United Kingdom. Locally engaged staff, even if they are British citizens, do not qualify. You need to be a UK civil servant posted overseas by HMG.

There is also 'designated service' which works in the same fashion but covers any international organisation of which the UK is a member, e.g. UN, NATO, Interpol, etc.

Lastly there is 'community service' (as in European Community, now the European Union) for which you can be recruited in any member state.

Can I ask in which year the OP and his wife were born?

Re: Childs Right to British Citizenship to British parents born outside the UK
 

Although in a different context, section 1 of the link below gives out the definition of Crown service.

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...ch18annexc.pdf

The three main points are -

1) Job should be an 'established permanent position'
2) Wages paid for by funds voted by Parliament
3) service direct to the Crown

So an outsource worker employed by mitie to work for the MoD in a British military base within Germany should not be class as 'Crown service', while the British High Commissioner in India would be viewed as being in 'Crown service'.

Re: Childs Right to British Citizenship to British parents born outside the UK
 

Sure - 87 and 84, respectively. Was a different law in place then?

Indeed - seems simpler to submit my wife's docs when applying for the childs consular registration. Going down my route would be more complex, since we'd need to source and submit additional evidence in relation to my fathers status as a civil servant.

Re: Childs Right to British Citizenship to British parents born outside the UK
 

It means that both your births were covered by the British Nationality Act 1981 which makes life easier.

If you are going down the consular birth registration route then you should provide the relevant documents for both of you to show that you are entitled to British citizenship otherwise than by descent thanks to your parents' employment at the time of your births. If you don't then the consular birth certificate won't show the correct information which makes the exercise a waste of time and money.

Under BNA 1981 you are both British under Section 2(1)(b) not Section 2(1)(a). You should ensure that the consular birth certificate you receive shows this correct information for both of you.

Re: Childs Right to British Citizenship to British parents born outside the UK
 

To close the loop on this thread, I was able to successfully register my sons birth at the Overseas Registration Unit under BNA Section 2(1)a. I enclosed evidence (appointment letter) of my father's crown service at the time of my own birth, and both parents are listed correctly on the certificate as having a claim to citizenship under BNA Section 2(1)b (on the mothers side, her military birth certificate was adequate evidence of 2(1)b).

I'll use this FCO birth registration when applying for my sons UK passport.

Thank you all for your expert advice and input.

Re: Childs Right to British Citizenship to British parents born outside the UK
 

Congratulations to the OP. It is a good time to get his sons' British passport as the exchange rate is working in his favour.

Re: Childs Right to British Citizenship to British parents born outside the UK
 

Good work. Glad to hear it was a success.

Re: Childs Right to British Citizenship to British parents born outside the UK
 

All, sorry to reopen this thread, I had one final question (I thought it better to keep the above context rather than post a fresh thread, but let me know if I should post a new one and I'll do so).

The supporting documents evidence list (https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...e_G1_10.16.pdf) for passport applications made from outside the UK does not specifically list consular birth registrations as permissable evidence for the childs birth certificate.

Can I verify the following is correct:
1) I should include the original birth certificate in addition to the certified copy of the consular birth registration
2) The consular birth registration provides adequate evidence of the childs right to British nationality
(table D of the above PDF notes that ' evidence of your grandparents’ claim to British nationality by providing their birth certificates
• and, in the case of grandfathers, the marriage certificate to your grandmother.' should be provided.

Since these documents were already reviewed by the Overseas Registration Unit, it seems a duplication of effort to provide them to the passport agency, since the overseas birth registration provides the noted evidence.


Thanks again,


Mark

Re: Childs Right to British Citizenship to British parents born outside the UK
 

The explicit reference to the consular birth certificate was removed from the guidance this time last year. I contacted HMPO for clarification at the time and received the following response:

(Nice to see HMPO doesn't trust the FCO's nationality examiners!)

So yes, if you submit the original birth certificate together with the consular birth certificate, then this should suffice.

Re: Childs Right to British Citizenship to British parents born outside the UK
 

Excellent, thanks for the quick clarification. Will report back once I have passport in hand :)