en1gma

We're moving back to the UK shortly and have a concern about our youngest and her citizenship.

My wife is British (by descent?) , although she was born in Trinidad (dad was a British pilot)... she has only ever had a British passport growing up. She how holds Canadian citizenship as well.

I was born in Canada and have Canadian citizenship, but am also a naturalised British citizen having lived there for many years.

our first child was born in the UK and has both British and Canadian citizenship.


Our daughter, however, (now 3 years old) was born in Canada and only has a Canadian passport. She was born in November 2005 and we where married when she was born... and still are

When she was born , I called the high commission in Ottawa to confirm her eligibility for citizenship and they did indicate that she was considered a British citizen and that we did not have to do anything more.

Now that we are moving back I'm a bit nervous about the paperwork when we claim residency.
Do we need to prove that she is "British"?
Is there any particular paperwork we need to know about?
Should we be taking her long form birth certificate etc with us as carry-on?

anyone been through this before?

thanks

Jerseygirl

Did you register her birth with the British Embassy? If not I think that's the first step you should take.

http://ukincanada.fco.gov.uk/en/help...r-marriage-or/

en1gma

no i didn't as they indicated (only verbally) that i didn't need to.
I undertand there are a number of different situations/case but the person i spoke with seemed sure that my daughter was automatically british.

btw, that link seems to be more relevant for my son as we needed to use his UK birth certificate etc to get his Canadian passport.. luckily we are past that hurdle.

(my son and I are traveling back on our Canadian passports but taking our expired British ones as well.. my wife is traveling on her British (never got a Canadian one)... and my daughter on her Canadian)

This page indicates that they don't register births here.

Jerseygirl

I think it's easier if all members of your family with British citizenship enter the UK using UK passports for residency. Otherwise they are classed as visitors to the UK...I believe they can change status later but it's easier to enter as Brits. You can enter the UK using expired UK PPs.

In that case I'm not sure about your daughter...I thought you needed to register the birth. From the link I posted you should be able to look through the Embassy's website and hopefully find the answer.

Maybe JAJ will be along before long...he will be able to advise you better than I.

Lorna at Vicenza

try this link


http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/sit.../guide_mn1.pdf

en1gma

jerseygirl

thanks. we are all intending to enter as brits.

i understood even an expired passport should be fine for that... they can look it up and ascertain that you are a citizen easily enough (its just not valid as a travel document since carriers and other countries want up to date pictures etc)
I was told this one time when I flew to the UK and found out my British passport had expired.. they where amazed I was allowed on the plane but let me into the UK... however I had to have my CDN passport couriered over to me to get the flight out again!).

however, claiming residency is more complicated....


Lorna, thanks for the link to the document... most helpful! I never found that despite searching on google and the home office IND web site...
according to that document my daughter has British citizenship by descent and does not have to be registered.

update as I type:

I just spoke with the high commission and apparently my daughter has automatic British citizenship "by descent" from me.... which is funny since my wife is far more "British" than I will ever be

however they did indicate it would be worth calling the border agency to be sure re entry on expired passports.. so we may end up applying for three new British passports after all just to be sure... although the waint time is 6 weeks and we leave in 5!

(maybe best to simply enter as visitors, sort the paperwork out there and then claim residency once uk passports are in hand.. we have a month before school starts....)

Jerseygirl

Take a look at this link...at the moment renewals seem to be taking several months...therefore you may be best to hang onto your expired PP...try to enter using them. It will also be far cheaper to renew them when you are living in the UK.

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...t=UK+passports

Even though you've been told your daughter is British I think you still need to do something to prove this...ie UK PP etc. I've read it is easier for you to prove her citizenship while she is very young than it is when she is older. Again this is something JAJ will be able to help you with.

It may be an idea for you to drop Dean a PM...he may be able to help you.

http://britishexpats.com/forum/member.php?u=93085

iaink

Far as I know there is no mechanism in Canada for brits wishing to register canadian born kids... You just fill in the requested paperwork for a british passport, bend over, and take the fees...

Jerseygirl

I'm not sure but I've read on here that is is far easier to officially ascertain a child's British citizenship while they are young. Whether that's through a UK PP or other forms I don't know.

iaink

Well, I think its a case of avoiding changes in the law at a later date that might prevent kids then claiming British citizenship, sort of a "get it while you can" thing. The last time the laws were changed there was a clearly defined timeframe involved...but if you didnt know it had changed and didnt claim it you were screwed.

All I know is that as a british father here there is no "registration" to be had for my canadian born children.

I refuse to pay the inflated fees for a passport at this stage, especially as kids photos are so hard to get to the required standards and its now no longer possible to go to Ottawa to do it, it all has to be sent to Washington, so for now my kids are on Canadian passports, at least until they are old enough to want to explore europe. In my case I cant see the law ever changing to the extent of excluding them, so Im not too nervous about waiting, however en1gma is in a different boat as neither parent is british born...

en1gma

thanks... renewals from Canada are indeed slow and they have to go to the US. I'd rather try out the expired ones and renew in the UK when we are there. Re my daughter, the high commission suggested taking my own certificate of naturalisation (which never expires of course... and that alone ought to get me in as a citizen..) and my daughters long form birth certificate from Ontario.

However she did warn that whilst it might be technically correct, the border services people are not always up to date on how to handle the intricacies of all this and it might cause quite a delay while the kids are jetlagged and worn out.. not to mention the parents who will want to get out of Heathrow as quickly as possible!!

Per iaink: good point re neither of us being British born, however I can't imagine the laws will change before we get our daughters passport in August (assuming we just get it there). the issue is really one of residency I suppose... since we can get the passports sorted there and then claim residency properly once passports in hand (may need a quick trip cross the channel to re-enter though...)

(wow it was easier when i was 24 and just relied on my grandfather being British so i could get indefinite leave to remain... and then just hung around, met a girl etc.... doing it all properly with kids is a LOT less fun! )

iaink

No you are right, I was thinking in terms of ten fifteen years from now in the case of my own kids likely needs, rather than months in your case. Generally if/when they change these rules there is a long grace period so people dont get caught out, but Im sure it inevitably happens to some anyway.


Good Luck, personally I think you will probably be fine going armed with the documents.

en1gma

from this web site:
http://skyteam.com/about/travelhelp/travelinfo.html

it reads:

Passport required.
- Expired British passport (no time limit) endorsed British Citizen is accepted.

both mine and my sons are endorsed "British Citizen"

I found the link here

Jerseygirl

That info is from a group of airline companies therefore I wouldn't rely on it 100%. I think they have given the correct info...but only the Foreign Office can set out the rules as to who and exactly what documents are required to enter the UK...not airline companies.

JAJ

If you are naturalised British and your daughter was born after you were naturalised, then it does not matter if your wife is British by descent.

One parent who is British otherwise than by descent (you) is enough.

You can't do consular birth registration in Canada => apply for a British passport for the child and take good care of it. You do need the passport as proof, there is no other way. Apply for it now.