pinkrose

Hi there,

I was wondering if anyone can help me please.

I am investigating applying for a British passport through double descent via my Grandfather's crown service.

Some more info:
- My Grandfather was born in the UK in 1930 and joined the Royal Navy in 1947.
- He was then seconded to South Africa around 1948.
- There he met my South African Grandmother and married her in 1952.
- He went back to the UK in 1953 for a short time to complete a work course through the Royal Navy.
- In 1954 he applied via the Royal Navy to be transferred to the South African Navy on contract.
- In 1955 transfer was accepted by the Royal Navy and he was transferred to the South African Navy on contract as a British Citizen. This contract was for 3 years and then extended for another 2 years. On his service papers from the Royal Navy, it says "released from royal fleet reserve obligations" in 1955.
- My mother was born in 1958 in South Africa.
- In 1960, his contract was extended for another 2 years.
- South Africa only became a republic in 1961.
- In 1962 my Grandfather was naturalised as a South African citizen and then only joined the South African Navy officially.
- I was born in 1991 in South Africa.

Documents I have to substantiate this:
- His Royal Navy service papers.
- Letters of application and acceptance of transfer to South African Navy.
- Original contracts between him and the South African Navy.
- I have all the birth/marriage certificates that are required, as my Mother has her British passport (obtained around 2002).

Would this still be considered as active crown service while he was on contract with the South African Navy? Can I still apply for a passport through double descent?
I realise this is a very grey area but I wondered if it was worth a try?

Any help would be much appreciated!
Thank you so much!

BritInParis

If your grandfather was released from the Royal Navy before your mother was born then he wouldn’t have been in Crown Service at the time of her birth. You also wouldn’t be eligible for registration under the recent Romein case as South Africa was still a Commonwealth country at the time of your mother’s birth and you were born after 1983. If you wish to live and work in the UK then a UK Ancestry visa is your best bet.

pinkrose

That's a pity but thank you for your help!

Roach

Hi BritInParis,
I have a similar case, and I think I qualify under the Romein case, however I wanted to check another aspect, and perhaps you could provide some insight?

• My maternal Grandfather was a British subject born in the UK (1921-12-28), and was recruited to the Service of the UK Government at the age of sixteen (officially enrolled at 18). He was serving under the British Crown for the RAF when he was sent to South Africa for the war efforts. He met and married our maternal Grandmother in South Africa whilst still serving in the RAF, and then returned to the UK towards the end of the war. They were eventually were relocated by the RAF to Southern Rhodesia (where our maternal Grandfather continued his service in the RAF (1939-1950)).
  
• It was whilst our grandfather was in the Service of the RAF in Southern Rhodesia when our mother was born (31 October 1949), but there were no RAF hospitals in Bulawayo at the time so she was born in a public hospital.
  
  Is it possible that as my mother was born abroad whilst her father was in the service of the crown, she should be considered British otherwise than by descent (had my grandfather not served in the RAF she would definitely have been born on UK soil). I had believed that my sister and I should have a British by descent status (a paid status trace found otherwise). I was born Jan 1981 and my sister 1979 (both born in South Africa and not registered British at birth). If this route is an option, my children would be able to qualify for ancestral visa's (as opposed to me immigrating to the UK before they are 18 and taking them with me).

Any advice would be welcome! thanks

BritInParis

Your mother would now be considered British otherwise than by descent but crucially that status did not exist at the time of your births. If you and your sister had been born after 1 January 1983 then you would’ve been British at birth. As it stands you can now register using Form UKM thanks to the Romein case.

Your children would not be eligible for UK Ancestry visas in any scenario as, from what you’ve said, their last UK-born ancestor was their great-grandfather and eligibility is unaffected by Crown service. If you want your children to be British you’ll need to emigrate to the UK with them before they turn 18.

Roach

It is a pity - really wanted that "option" for my kids! Lets hope another Romein comes along to challenge the 1983 ruling...
Thanks again for the advice you provide, it really is appreciated.

Roach

My logic was that if my mother is considered "Otherwise than by descent" than that would imply she is UK born (despite being born abroad given the crown service links), hence my kids would get the ancestral option.

BritInParis

Not a problem. At least you can gain your British passport. You can then make a decision about whether you wish to move your family to the UK.

You’re mixing nationality with immigration law - the two are separate unless they explicitly refer to each other.