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British citizenship - Mother born in the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland...

British citizenship - Mother born in the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland...

Old Mar 28th 2019, 7:10 pm
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Default British citizenship - Mother born in the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland...

Hi everyone! I've been reading, and reading, and reading. But as everyone's case is different I feel I haven't come to a solid conclusion on whether or not I can claim citizenship. I know I can apply for a Ancestral Visa, but before I do I would like to confirm if someone is able to advise. Info:

1) Father & paternal grandparents unknown. Single mom.

2) Maternal grandparents both born in the UK. Neither had crown service.

3) Mother born in Salisbury, Southern Rhodesia, 1960. While it was the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland. Left in 1963 to South Africa.

4) I have 2 passports of my mothers. Both issued by the British consulate general in South Africa. The first one:

4a) Issued in 1978. It states in order: "issued in accordance with the house of commons statement on 17 june 1968", then states something about "unknown status according to the immigration act of 1971". Then, "Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies", then on another page in signed off hand writing "status amended to show", followed by a stamp, "Right of abode in the United Kingdom". It states my mother was a British Subject.

4b) Second passport issued in 1993 simply states "British Citizen".

5) I was born in South Africa in 1991. I was not listed as a dependent on my mothers 1993 passport, and as far as I know I was not registered as a British Citizen.

6) My maternal great grandparents were also UK born if that matters.

Any advice appreciated. I have a feeling that point 2 immediately points to my mother gaining her CUKC status by descent which in turn disqualifies me, but I know the law is complex, especially involving the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland.

Last edited by jasonbo; Mar 28th 2019 at 7:50 pm.
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Old Mar 29th 2019, 6:58 pm
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Default Re: British citizenship - Mother born in the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasalan

This is an excellent pickle. I concur entirely with your last paragraph. I will put on my thinking cap this weekend when I get a chance.
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Old Mar 30th 2019, 2:21 pm
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Default Re: British citizenship - Mother born in the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasalan

Indeed! Any input would be greatly appreciated, i have hit a wall in what to research next. Below is a link to pictures of the passports and birth certificate, i cannot post links in the forum yet, please replace "REPLACE" with dot com.

drive.googleREPLACE/open?id=1FHGGbuvbn6Nqrc0Kw9isAVsAf3mMHIe-

Hope you're having a lovely weekend.
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Old Mar 30th 2019, 5:40 pm
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Default Re: British citizenship - Mother born in the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasalan

A few beers down and i've come to this:

The Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland (Dissolution) Order in Council 1963 states:

"(2) Notwithstanding anything in the British Nationality Acts 1948 and 1958, any person who immediately before the dissolution of the Federation is a citizen of the Federation but is not a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies shall become a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies on the dissolution of the Federation unless the then becomes a citizen of Southern Rhodesia."

The dissolution happened on the 31st of December, 1963. My mother says she left Rhodesia in 1963, so she could not have been there to become a citizen of Southern Rhodesia. Although i have no proof that she left.

The question is, which takes precedence. The automatic citizenship from her mother or father, or the acquisition of citizenship from being born a federal citizen and the subsequent dissolution. I don't know if the automatic citizenship by descent "just is", or still has to be applied for to "be".
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Old Mar 31st 2019, 12:30 am
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Default Re: British citizenship - Mother born in the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasalan

Have you asked Philip Gamble through whatpassport for an opinion? The initial part is free. If so, what did they say?

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Old Mar 31st 2019, 1:12 pm
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Default Re: British citizenship - Mother born in the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasalan

Yes i did submit some info to Sable a while ago, i got "Unlikely - 5% to 25% (Ancestry visa Option)". This was however before i knew about the Federation and my mothers exact circumstances. Just based on my british born grandparents.
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Old Apr 14th 2019, 5:10 pm
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Default Re: British citizenship - Mother born in the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasalan

BiP, what did you think about this one?

I cannot yet post links but if you google 'British_Citizenship_by_Double_Descent_(Sec_2(1)_1 981_Sec_14(ii))' the first link will be a whatpassport one which is the solution he is interested in. It applies to fathers or mothers so would apply to his situation in certain circumstances. It would hinge on either the mother having registered under section 6 or 7 (I think before the dissolution of the Federation) or that registration happened automatically with the dissolution of the Federation at the end of 1963. I noticed that the mother's passport was stamped with "issued in accordance with the house of commons statement on 17 june 1968" in 1978 which would seem to mean that the consulate in joburg believed that none of the registration situations applied to his mother. That would mean that the key question is what happened on the dissolution of the Federation and whether the mother became a citizen of Southern Rhodesia.

Under the Citizenship of Rhodesia and Nyasaland and British Nationality Act 1957, the mother was a citizen of the Federation by birth. Under the Citizenship of Southern Rhodesia and British Nationality Act of 1963, which controlled what happened on dissolution, the mother would have been a citizen of Southern Rhodesia by birth if she was a.) a former citizen by birth and b.) a citizen of the former federation. I looked at the 'preliminary' section of this act which defines these terms. A former citizen by birth 'means a person born in Southern Rhodesia before the date of commencement of this Act who - a.) was a citizen by birth of the former Federation; or b.) would, if the former Federal citizenship law had been in force at the time of his birth, have been a citizen by birth of the former Federation. I believe this means that at dissolution, his mother would have become a citizen of Southern Rhodesia. I do not believe it matters that your mother moved to South Africa before the dissolution as the act makes no provision for that, but perhaps that is not the case.

If you look closely at the whatpassport site, you will find that there are different provisions concerning dissolution for those who were born in what is now Zambia and Malawi during the time of the Federation, rather than in Southern Rhodesia. This would be due to their respective citizenship acts that controlled what happened during dissolution.

You could always resubmit to whatpassport with the new details (mother moved in 1963, the stamps in the passport, etc) and with a new email address and see what they say but in any case, you're eligible for the Ancestry visa so that's a positive.

Last edited by jmin; Apr 14th 2019 at 5:13 pm. Reason: typo
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Old Apr 14th 2019, 5:39 pm
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Default Re: British citizenship - Mother born in the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasalan

Originally Posted by jmin View Post
BiP, what did you think about this one?

I cannot yet post links but if you google 'British_Citizenship_by_Double_Descent_(Sec_2(1)_1 981_Sec_14(ii))' the first link will be a whatpassport one which is the solution he is interested in. It applies to fathers or mothers so would apply to his situation in certain circumstances. It would hinge on either the mother having registered under section 6 or 7 (I think before the dissolution of the Federation) or that registration happened automatically with the dissolution of the Federation at the end of 1963. I noticed that the mother's passport was stamped with "issued in accordance with the house of commons statement on 17 june 1968" in 1978 which would seem to mean that the consulate in joburg believed that none of the registration situations applied to his mother. That would mean that the key question is what happened on the dissolution of the Federation and whether the mother became a citizen of Southern Rhodesia.

Under the Citizenship of Rhodesia and Nyasaland and British Nationality Act 1957, the mother was a citizen of the Federation by birth. Under the Citizenship of Southern Rhodesia and British Nationality Act of 1963, which controlled what happened on dissolution, the mother would have been a citizen of Southern Rhodesia by birth if she was a.) a former citizen by birth and b.) a citizen of the former federation. I looked at the 'preliminary' section of this act which defines these terms. A former citizen by birth 'means a person born in Southern Rhodesia before the date of commencement of this Act who - a.) was a citizen by birth of the former Federation; or b.) would, if the former Federal citizenship law had been in force at the time of his birth, have been a citizen by birth of the former Federation. I believe this means that at dissolution, his mother would have become a citizen of Southern Rhodesia. I do not believe it matters that your mother moved to South Africa before the dissolution as the act makes no provision for that, but perhaps that is not the case.

If you look closely at the whatpassport site, you will find that there are different provisions concerning dissolution for those who were born in what is now Zambia and Malawi during the time of the Federation, rather than in Southern Rhodesia. This would be due to their respective citizenship acts that controlled what happened during dissolution.

You could always resubmit to whatpassport with the new details (mother moved in 1963, the stamps in the passport, etc) and with a new email address and see what they say but in any case, you're eligible for the Ancestry visa so that's a positive.
Thanks for the reply! I actually somehow missed that page you mention "British_Citizenship_by_Double_Descent_(Sec_2(1)_1 981_Sec_14(ii)", and was looking at another page which is similar to my situation titled "Citizenship by double descent (Mother with abode).". Do you have a link to the "Citizenship of Southern Rhodesia and British Nationality Act of 1963"? I cant seem to find the act in full. I know you cant post links so perhaps a hint on where to find it. Haven't made any progress from when i last posted. But still hopeful. In the meantime i've been gathering the documents for my ancestral visa - would still love to save the £2516 though
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Old Apr 14th 2019, 6:39 pm
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Default Re: British citizenship - Mother born in the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasalan

Originally Posted by jasonbo View Post
Thanks for the reply! I actually somehow missed that page you mention "British_Citizenship_by_Double_Descent_(Sec_2(1)_1 981_Sec_14(ii)", and was looking at another page which is similar to my situation titled "Citizenship by double descent (Mother with abode).". Do you have a link to the "Citizenship of Southern Rhodesia and British Nationality Act of 1963"? I cant seem to find the act in full. I know you cant post links so perhaps a hint on where to find it. Haven't made any progress from when i last posted. But still hopeful. In the meantime i've been gathering the documents for my ancestral visa - would still love to save the £2516 though
That site has a lot of hidden links. When you google that string above, go to the top left part of the page, and click 'Passport&Nationality' to go one level back, you will see all of them. I think they exist to guide the immigration advisers that respond to the status trace requests and then, later, to include in the status trace results to the client.

As for the two citizenship acts, I found them in the Fransman's British Nationality Law book. I would suggest buying it if you are interested but it's pricey - I found my copy for much less a few months ago. I also couldn't easily find the relevant acts online, which is why opened the chapter on the Federation (actually consolidated in the Zimbabwe section) this weekend to do a little digging. I can see about sending the acts to you sometime this week when I have time.

I've noticed that Gamble sometimes puts forward a test case where an application is successful but the solution then disappears after the Home Office thought about it some more. One such example is a post on here by judyv from 2013 - although that case wasn't strictly about what she said in her post and also included that she tried to register them at the consulate when the children were 2 and 3 years old. The idea there had been that the mother held right of abode both from being a commonwealth citizen and from her parents' birth in the UK (she was born in Kenya in the mid 1950s). This meant that she was actually a citizen otherwise than by descent and so her children were citizens by descent. The situation of her children was very similar to my own situation but the Home Office then decided/realized after approving this one that the solution only applied if the parent was born before 1949. I would imagine that part of the reason for this review was because of the number of people it would have made eligible. You can always try and see if they approve or wait and see if there's a new route.

In any case, I'll send the acts later this week.
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