British citizenship by double descent - Do I qualify?

Old Oct 25th 2018, 12:24 pm
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Default Re: British citizenship by double descent - Do I qualify?

Then she’ll be by descent. Come back if you have any further questions.
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Old Oct 25th 2018, 2:23 pm
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Default Re: British citizenship by double descent - Do I qualify?

The two categories under current British nationality Law are "by descent" and "other than by descent" Other inventions like "by double descent" or "by law" are just that - fictions, inventions with no legal basis.
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Old Dec 26th 2018, 8:34 am
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Default Re: British citizenship by double descent - Do I qualify?

Originally Posted by BritInParis View Post
Potentially many tens of thousands. I'd be very interested to hear back from a poster about their experience if they are successful in making an application.
I have made a successful application this year via the Romein decision. My mom was born in SA in 1952, to British parents. I was born in SA in 1982.
I applied via a well known intermediary, which was rather expensive and on reflection I don't think it was necessary. The application was straightforward, and I see it is covered in the new UKM guide which you can download from the govt site. There is an application fee which you pay when you make the application £80 iirc.

At the insistence of the intermediary I only sent certified copies of the documents (they said they have had many instances of the Home Office returning docs via ordinary post, which of course in SA means you will never see them again). From the letter I got back from the Home Office it seems the only docs they wanted and used were my current SA passport ID page, my unabridged birth certificate (not the vault copy) my mom's unabridged (also didn't use her vault copy) and my grandads birth and marriage certificates. Also (oddly) my marriage certificate (I don't see how this was relevant, but it was included in the docs section).

I don't know if they included a covering letter or not, but there was nothing like that attached to the email that I got from the home office (although copies of my other docs were).
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Old Dec 26th 2018, 8:44 am
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Default Re: British citizenship by double descent - Do I qualify?

Originally Posted by Bronwyndp View Post
Hi BritinParis - you seem very knowledgeable and I was wondering if you could offer some advice please? I called the Home Office and they were very vague. My husband and his older brother qualify for British citizenship by double descent under this new Romein judgement. Can they submit their applications together in the same envelope as they naturally have only one original of each of the required documents? Each one would fill out their own application forms and pay their own fees. Also we are unsure of how to answer question 1.23 “state how your mother acquired British Citizenship?” - is it by law (section 5 of the British Nationality Act) or purely by descent as her father was born in the UK? They ask for a certificate number but their mom just has the passport and is not aware of any certificate that was issued? Do they also need to supply a lengthy legal argument as to why they now qualify for British citizenship? Sorry for all these questions but the lawyers want to charge them 1600 pounds to submit on their behalf and make us believe that it is a non-standard/complicated route to citizenship which requires their assistance?
I don't know whether they can submit in one envelope, but I do know that I submitted certified copies (certified here in SA), and they accepted that. If you do send originals make sure you have made arrangements for them to courier them back to you as otherwise they will send it via regular mail and we all know how chancy that is.

In terms of how your mom acquired citizenship, I see on my form it says "s5 CUKC" although I'm sure you could also write that she got her citizenship by ordinary operation of law as she was born to a married British father if you prefer. In the section for how my grandfather and grandmother acquired their citizenship it says "CUKC 12(1)". They were both born in the UK to British families.

Hope this helps clarify for you. If you have further questions I'd be happy to try answer based on my experience. If you need help getting docs out of Home Affairs in SA DM me, we have a great expediting company that we used after waiting a year for my birth certificate!
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Old Jan 4th 2019, 9:01 am
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Default Re: British citizenship by double descent - Do I qualify?

Originally Posted by RosalindJane View Post
Thanks for the help. I intend to apply and will hopefully report back with positive results!
Hi RosalindJane

Interested to find out if you've been sucessfull with your direct application. I'm in nearly the exact same situation so would hope the direct route is possible.

thanks
C
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Old Jan 4th 2019, 12:22 pm
  #21  
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Default Re: British citizenship by double descent - Do I qualify?

Originally Posted by christheron View Post
Hi RosalindJane

Interested to find out if you've been sucessfull with your direct application. I'm in nearly the exact same situation so would hope the direct route is possible.

thanks
C
RosalindJane hasn't been on the forum for over 6 months, so is unlikely to see your question. I'd suggest you start a new thread so that those with experience are more likely to see it.

HTH and welcome to BE.
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Old Feb 5th 2019, 2:21 pm
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Default Re: British citizenship by double descent - Do I qualify?

Originally Posted by SapphiraeLupa View Post
I have made a successful application this year via the Romein decision. My mom was born in SA in 1952, to British parents. I was born in SA in 1982.
I applied via a well known intermediary, which was rather expensive and on reflection I don't think it was necessary. The application was straightforward, and I see it is covered in the new UKM guide which you can download from the govt site. There is an application fee which you pay when you make the application £80 iirc.

At the insistence of the intermediary I only sent certified copies of the documents (they said they have had many instances of the Home Office returning docs via ordinary post, which of course in SA means you will never see them again). From the letter I got back from the Home Office it seems the only docs they wanted and used were my current SA passport ID page, my unabridged birth certificate (not the vault copy) my mom's unabridged (also didn't use her vault copy) and my grandads birth and marriage certificates. Also (oddly) my marriage certificate (I don't see how this was relevant, but it was included in the docs section).

I don't know if they included a covering letter or not, but there was nothing like that attached to the email that I got from the home office (although copies of my other docs were).
Hi SapphiraeLupa,
I was wondering where you got your documents certified (assuming you did it in RSA)? I am very hesitant to send my original passport and documentation.
Thanks for posting the minimum required documents- that will save me some time!
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Old Feb 5th 2019, 5:08 pm
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Default Re: British citizenship by double descent - Do I qualify?

Originally Posted by Roach View Post
Hi SapphiraeLupa,
I was wondering where you got your documents certified (assuming you did it in RSA)? I am very hesitant to send my original passport and documentation.
Thanks for posting the minimum required documents- that will save me some time!
I just went to my local SAPS station and got them certified by the desk sergeant.
You do the biometrics here, at the same places where you do them for UK visas. There was some kind of issue with the booking system, so eventually I just went there without an appointment and they did it for me.

Don't forget to inform home affairs before you do your citizenship ceremony, otherwise you will lose your SA citizenship when you gain British, which can be fixed if you still live in SA, but it's a pain.
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Old Feb 18th 2019, 1:09 pm
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Default Re: British citizenship by double descent - Do I qualify?

Originally Posted by SapphiraeLupa View Post
I don't know whether they can submit in one envelope, but I do know that I submitted certified copies (certified here in SA), and they accepted that. If you do send originals make sure you have made arrangements for them to courier them back to you as otherwise they will send it via regular mail and we all know how chancy that is.

In terms of how your mom acquired citizenship, I see on my form it says "s5 CUKC" although I'm sure you could also write that she got her citizenship by ordinary operation of law as she was born to a married British father if you prefer. In the section for how my grandfather and grandmother acquired their citizenship it says "CUKC 12(1)". They were both born in the UK to British families.

Hope this helps clarify for you. If you have further questions I'd be happy to try answer based on my experience. If you need help getting docs out of Home Affairs in SA DM me, we have a great expediting company that we used after waiting a year for my birth certificate!
Hi - to apply for a passport, does one need to do the UKM first?
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Old Feb 18th 2019, 2:32 pm
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Default Re: British citizenship by double descent - Do I qualify?

Originally Posted by IanV View Post
Hi - to apply for a passport, does one need to do the UKM first?
That would depend on your circumstances - maybe best to start your own thread on the subject.
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Old Feb 18th 2019, 3:02 pm
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Default Re: British citizenship by double descent - Do I qualify?

Hi BIP - I thought I'd continue this thread as it all seems relevant to this discussion. My mother has a BP (by decent - her father was born in the UK and she was born in South Africa). Considering the Romein case, I meet all of the criteria for a BP passport, however, I am not sure if I need to do the UKM first - is this a requirement to apply for a BP?
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Old Feb 18th 2019, 4:03 pm
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Default Re: British citizenship by double descent - Do I qualify?

Originally Posted by IanV View Post
Hi BIP - I thought I'd continue this thread as it all seems relevant to this discussion. My mother has a BP (by decent - her father was born in the UK and she was born in South Africa). Considering the Romein case, I meet all of the criteria for a BP passport, however, I am not sure if I need to do the UKM first - is this a requirement to apply for a BP?
If you’re not a British citizen already but you meet the Romein criteria (born outside the UK to a British by descent mother before 1983) then you’ll first need to register as a British citizen using Form UKM before you can apply for a British passport. Bear in mind that it’s very important you first apply to retain your South African citizenship before starting the process otherwise you will lose it on becoming a British citizen.
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Old Feb 18th 2019, 4:04 pm
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Default Re: British citizenship by double descent - Do I qualify?

Thanks BIP - I will keep this thread updated with progress :-)
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Old Feb 18th 2019, 6:15 pm
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Default Re: British citizenship by double descent - Do I qualify?

Originally Posted by IanV View Post
Hi BIP - I thought I'd continue this thread as it all seems relevant to this discussion. My mother has a BP (by decent - her father was born in the UK and she was born in South Africa). Considering the Romein case, I meet all of the criteria for a BP passport, however, I am not sure if I need to do the UKM first - is this a requirement to apply for a BP?
Hey, as BIP says you need to do the UKM first.

People in SA seem to often conflate UK citizenship and UK passports, they are actually two different things. You must have citizenship before you are eligible to apply for a passport (and you can be a citizen without having a passport).
So, you need to get registered as a citizen first, you must apply for retention of RSA citizenship at Home Affairs but you only need to do that before you do the actual citizenship ceremony, you can start the UK application process in the meantime. My application took about 4 months to get processed, and then a further 3 month wait for the citizenship ceremony, so it's not a speedy thing. You can only apply for a passport after you have had your citizenship ceremony.
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Old Feb 18th 2019, 7:38 pm
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Default Re: British citizenship by double descent - Do I qualify?

Thanks for the info. I have paid for my passport application already. so I will probably have to forfeit that fee as the UKM will not be done in time (90 days...). On the upside, I have all the required documentation in hand :-)
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