British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Old Jul 23rd 2022, 11:34 am
  #16  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 154
jmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by pinkrose
jmin Thank you! This helps so much!

For this application, I’m wondering what supporting documents he’d need?

And do all applications have to be sent via post along with the supporting documents?
Or can it be done online?

Thanks again!
You would need to reference (quote in full) the appropriate section of BNA 1981 that contains the registration language. I believe it is section 9. You would then need to explain how that would have applied to your husband if not for historical legislative unfairness (gender discrimination), You will need to show that his mother could have registered him (mother's birth certificate, proof that she would have been able to register him at the time of his birth such as old passport, information on her parents, and so on). Then reference the new nationality act, the guidance, and how it applies to him. You need to spend some time on this, perhaps write it up and post it here so we can review it before you submit the registration documents. The reason you need to be careful is that I do not believe that there are any approved registrations using this route yet. This is because the guidance was only published at the end of June so the firm that advertised this solution would only have begun submitting these registrations around that time.
The Home Office's ARD guidance on required documentation is:Please send the following documents:
  • Your passport
  • Information to show how you would have been, or would have been able to become, a British citizen. This might include:
    • Your full birth certificate (one which includes the name of your parent(s))
    • your mother or father’s birth certificate and evidence of their status at the time of your birth
  • Information relating to an act or omission of a public authority, if you are applying on that basis
  • Evidence of your exceptional circumstances, if you are applying on that basis
As far as online or by post, the form you cited is by post.
jmin is offline  
Old Aug 4th 2022, 10:38 pm
  #17  
Just Joined
 
Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 1
Cocky01 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Hi Pinkrose,

We seem to have husbands in common, have you done this application yet? We would like to get started, but unsure if applications are open and if so what application form to use, any assistance or guidance would be greatly appreciated.


Cocky01 is offline  
Old Aug 10th 2022, 1:20 am
  #18  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 13
pinkrose is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

jmin This helps so much! Thank you!

Cocky01 My husband hasn't applied yet as we are waiting for his retention letter first. As far as I know the Home Office is accepting applications already. I found this form online that one would need to post to the Home Office along with the supporting documents: https://assets.publishing.service.go...-ard-06-22.pdf

I'll be posting his "argument" of why he should be granted citizenship here before he submits.
I'll keep you all updated.

Last edited by pinkrose; Aug 10th 2022 at 1:27 am.
pinkrose is offline  
Old Sep 7th 2022, 9:11 pm
  #19  
Just Joined
 
Joined: Sep 2022
Posts: 6
sptolsma is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Hey,
I'm in a very similar situation. I will apply through the same route, without the help of lawyers. The asking price for representation is absurd!

Last edited by christmasoompa; Sep 7th 2022 at 9:17 pm. Reason: Please don't ask forum members to share their personal documentation
sptolsma is offline  
Old Sep 8th 2022, 1:56 am
  #20  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 154
jmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by sptolsma
Hey,
I'm in a very similar situation. I will apply through the same route, without the help of lawyers. The asking price for representation is absurd!
As far as I know, no one has had a successful claim with this route yet because of the Home Office's processing timelines. That said, the government has guidance (ARD guide) that could be used to draft a statement in support of a registration application.
The ARD Guide lists three 'historical legislative unfairness' scenarios, although there are more that are not listed. The parent would have been able to register their child if the law had:
  • treated men and women equally
  • treated children of unmarried couples in the same way as children of married couples
  • treated children of couples where the mother was married to someone other than the natural father in the same way as children of couples where the mother was married to the natural father.
Here is a short example of a statement for an applicant who was born in the USA in 1984 to parents that were married, whose mother was born in the USA, and whose maternal grandfather was born in London. Any application will be unique and while the idea would be the same for an unmarried mother, you would need to explain why. Do not just submit this statement and do not assume it is correct, I am posting it to add to the conversation. Remember that you need to send the correct supporting documents (birth certificates, marriage certificates, colour copies of your passport, parent/grandparent's UK passport number, and so on).

If not for historical legislative unfairness (gender discrimination), my mother would have been able to register me under section 9 of BNA 1981 because:
  1. I was born in 1984 in the USA to a mother who was a British citizen by descent.
  2. I was born during BNA 1981's transitional period for consular birth registrations (1983-1987). (Section 9 of BNA 1981)
  3. My mother was a British citizen by descent born in the United States.
  4. My maternal grandfather was born in the United Kingdom in the meaning used in BNA 1981 (birth within the United Kingdom and Islands) <---note that UK and Islands means England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, etc, it does not mean the entire former empire.
  5. I would have had the right of abode under the test set out in section 9(1)(b) of BNA 1981 because my maternal grandfather was born in the United Kingdom (Immigration Act of 1971 section 2(1)(b)(ii)).
  6. I satisfy the test in section 9(2) of BNA 1981 because:
  • Immediately before the commencement of BNA 1981 my mother was a CUKC by descent (Section 5 of the 1948 Act)
  • My mother was married to my father (although whether or not they were married is immaterial as it is also historical legislative unfairness)
  • My mother was 'ordinarly resident' in a foreign country under the meaning of the 1948 Act (USA is a foreign country under the act).
  • My mother became a British Citizen on commencement of BNA 1981 (CUKCs by descent with a father born in the UK became British Citizens on commencement by section 11(1) of BNA 1981).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Include Section 9 of BNA 1981 in your submission and note that all references to 'father' are gender discrimination/historical legislative unfairness:
Right to registration by virtue of father's citizenship etc.
(1)A person born in a foreign country within five years after commencement shall be entitled, on an application for his registration as a British citizen made within the period of twelve months from the date of the birth, to be registered as such a citizen if—
(a)the requirements specified in subsection (2) are fulfilled in the case of that person's father ; and
(b)had that person been born before commencement and become a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by virtue of section 5 of the 1948 Act (citizenship by descent) as a result of the registration of his birth at a United Kingdom consulate under paragraph (b) of the proviso to section 5(1) of that Act, he would immediately before commencement have had the right of abode in the United Kingdom by virtue of section 2(1)(b) of the [1971 c. 77.] Immigration Act 1971 as then in force (connection with United Kingdom through parent or grandparent).
(2)The requirements referred to in subsection (1)(a) are that the father of the person to whom the application relates—
(a)immediately before commencement or at his death (whichever was earlier)—
(i)was a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by virtue of section 5 of the 1948 Act (citizenship by descent) or was a person who, under any provision of the British Nationality Acts 1948 to 1965 was deemed for the purposes of the proviso to section 5(1) of the 1948 Act to be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent only ; and
(ii)was married to that person's mother ; and
(iii)was ordinarily resident in a foreign country (no matter which) within the meaning of the 1948 Act; and
(b)either—
(i)became a British citizen at commencement and remained such a citizen throughout the period from commencement to the date of the application or, if he died during that period, throughout the period from commencement to his death ; or
(ii)would have become a British citizen at commencement but for his death.

Note that 2(a)(ii) (parents were married at your birth) is also historical legislative unfairness according to the ARD Guidance. If your parents were unmarried, explain that this is gender discrimation.

No one statement will work for all applicants as their situations will be different, including their countries of birth. For example, the registration section asks you to suppose that you were born before the enactment of BNA 1981. In that case, if you would have been a Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies you would need to explain how you meet these two tests under the 1948 Act:
1. Were you born in a foreign country? You can ask here but as an example, the USA is a foreign country and South Africa is treated as a foreign country from 31 May 1962 to 25 July 1994 inclusive.
2. Would you have the right of abode under section 2(1)(b) of the Immigration Act of 1971?

Here is the relevant section 2(1)(b) of the 1971 Act that you would include in your statement:
A person is under this Act to have the right of abode in the United Kingdom if—
(b)he is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies born to or legally adopted by a parent who had that citizenship at the time of the birth or adoption, and the parent either—
(i)then had that citizenship by his birth, adoption, naturalisation or (except as mentioned below) registration in the United Kingdom or in any of the Islands; or
(ii)had been born to or legally adopted by a parent who at the time of that birth or adoption so had it;

You would have ROA from a parent (b) who was (i) born in the UK or (ii) your grandparent was born in the UK. Explain how you would have had ROA under 2(1)(b) of the 1971 Act from your parent or grandparent.

Last edited by jmin; Sep 8th 2022 at 2:06 am. Reason: typo
jmin is offline  
Old Sep 8th 2022, 7:08 pm
  #21  
Just Joined
 
Joined: Sep 2022
Posts: 6
sptolsma is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

jmin Thank you for taking the time to respond in such detail. Much appreciated!

The more I read into this, the more I realise how complex the application is. As you said, each application is unique.

My mother was born to a British mother in Zimbabwe in 1959. I was then born in South Africa in 1986. Making a case and explaining why I am eligible for citizenship seems to be a job for lawyers who have a grasp on the legislation.

I must admit, I’m considering scraping the money together for Sable to get the job done.
sptolsma is offline  
Old Sep 29th 2022, 10:17 pm
  #22  
Just Joined
 
Joined: Sep 2022
Posts: 13
justin4d is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

@jmin - have you considered consulting to assist us mere-mortals that are not as well-versed to form the applications instead of paying absurd amounts to Sable? I would definitely consider strongly wanting to save some money whilst remunerating you for your advisory and support!

Looking forward to your reply
justin4d is offline  
Old Sep 29th 2022, 10:27 pm
  #23  
SUPER MODERATOR
 
christmasoompa's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: In a darkened room somewhere.............
Posts: 34,161
christmasoompa has a reputation beyond reputechristmasoompa has a reputation beyond reputechristmasoompa has a reputation beyond reputechristmasoompa has a reputation beyond reputechristmasoompa has a reputation beyond reputechristmasoompa has a reputation beyond reputechristmasoompa has a reputation beyond reputechristmasoompa has a reputation beyond reputechristmasoompa has a reputation beyond reputechristmasoompa has a reputation beyond reputechristmasoompa has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by justin4d
@jmin - have you considered consulting to assist us mere-mortals that are not as well-versed to form the applications instead of paying absurd amounts to Sable? I would definitely consider strongly wanting to save some money whilst remunerating you for your advisory and support!

Looking forward to your reply
Not an option I'm afraid. https://www.gov.uk/government/public...gration-advice

HTH.

christmasoompa is offline  
Old Sep 29th 2022, 10:35 pm
  #24  
Just Joined
 
Joined: Sep 2022
Posts: 13
justin4d is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Fair enough - in this case - is anyone aware of an advisory company / immigration lawyer that would be registered to be able to provide such guidance, or is Sable the only provider that seems to be able to provide this service re. the unique British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)?

I would welcome any advice on alternatives that are available. Thank you!
justin4d is offline  
Old Sep 29th 2022, 10:40 pm
  #25  
SUPER MODERATOR
 
christmasoompa's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: In a darkened room somewhere.............
Posts: 34,161
christmasoompa has a reputation beyond reputechristmasoompa has a reputation beyond reputechristmasoompa has a reputation beyond reputechristmasoompa has a reputation beyond reputechristmasoompa has a reputation beyond reputechristmasoompa has a reputation beyond reputechristmasoompa has a reputation beyond reputechristmasoompa has a reputation beyond reputechristmasoompa has a reputation beyond reputechristmasoompa has a reputation beyond reputechristmasoompa has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by justin4d
Fair enough - in this case - is anyone aware of a person that would be registered to be able to provide such guidance, or is Sable the only provider that seems to be able to provide this service re. the unique British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)?

I would welcome any advice on alternatives that are available. Thank you!
You could try posting on the forum and seeing if anybody can help you for free? As you can see from the forum we have some very knowledgeable people around, granted they're not lawyers or registered immi consultants so the advice isn't official, but they may be able to steer you in the right direction.

Or you'd need to find a registered consultants or lawyer who has knowledge of this area of law, I'm sure there are others as well as Sable out there.

Good luck.
christmasoompa is offline  
Old Oct 4th 2022, 1:37 am
  #26  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 154
jmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by sptolsma
jmin Thank you for taking the time to respond in such detail. Much appreciated!

The more I read into this, the more I realise how complex the application is. As you said, each application is unique.

My mother was born to a British mother in Zimbabwe in 1959. I was then born in South Africa in 1986. Making a case and explaining why I am eligible for citizenship seems to be a job for lawyers who have a grasp on the legislation.

I must admit, I’m considering scraping the money together for Sable to get the job done.
Apologies as I only now saw your reply. You may have a valid CBR claim through your mother. I will try to help if you have not already contacted Sable.

Where and in what years were both sets of grandparents born? When were the grandparents married? Were your maternal grandparents married at the time of your mother's birth? What were their citizenships? Where and when was your father born? Were your parents married at the time of your birth?




jmin is offline  
Old Oct 4th 2022, 1:41 am
  #27  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 154
jmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by justin4d
Fair enough - in this case - is anyone aware of an advisory company / immigration lawyer that would be registered to be able to provide such guidance, or is Sable the only provider that seems to be able to provide this service re. the unique British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)?

I would welcome any advice on alternatives that are available. Thank you!
I will respond if you provide specifics on how you feel you are eligible. As another poster mentions, It's not official and I am not an immigration consultant - it's only a hobby and a desire to try to help since I went through a multi-year process to prove my own claim.

Where and when you were born, where and when your grandparents were born, citizenships, maternal grandparents married or not at her birth, your parents married at the time of your birth, and so on.

There are alternatives to Sable in the UK (with similar pricing) for some of the less complicated claims, which I suppose many of these CBR claims are. A google search should find some registered consultants or lawyers.

Based on some of the posts here, there is at least one group operating out of South Africa that provides 'discount' services - but they don't submit an argument with how you are eligible. They charge you, collect your documents, and then let the Home Office's caseworker divine how you are eligible when they submit your application. This can lead to denied applications that should have been approved.

Last edited by jmin; Oct 4th 2022 at 1:50 am. Reason: typo
jmin is offline  
Old Oct 4th 2022, 2:20 am
  #28  
Just Joined
 
Joined: Sep 2022
Posts: 13
justin4d is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by jmin
I will respond if you provide specifics on how you feel you are eligible. As another poster mentions, It's not official and I am not an immigration consultant - it's only a hobby and a desire to try to help since I went through a multi-year process to prove my own claim.

Where and when you were born, where and when your grandparents were born, citizenships, maternal grandparents married or not at her birth, your parents married at the time of your birth, and so on.

There are alternatives to Sable in the UK (with similar pricing) for some of the less complicated claims, which I suppose many of these CBR claims are. A google search should find some registered consultants or lawyers.

Based on some of the posts here, there is at least one group operating out of South Africa that provides 'discount' services - but they don't submit an argument with how you are eligible. They charge you, collect your documents, and then let the Home Office's caseworker divine how you are eligible when they submit your application. This can lead to denied applications that should have been approved.

Thanks @jmin that is very kind of you.

I have contacted Sable today and got the latest timelines - they will take 18-20 weeks until a caseworker from Sable looks at my file (after paying their fees), then once I get all the documents aligned, then the official process begins with UK Govt and that will take a further approximated 6-9 months. I have not yet pulled the trigger but will assess all options out there that I can pursue.

Where and when you were born: South Africa, Oct 1984 (within the approved dates for CBR)
Where and when your grandparents were born: Will look to apply through my grandmother (father's mother) who was born in UK (1926) and fled to SA on ship during WWII before her parents (both British) joined her at a later stage in SA.
My grandfather (father's father) who married my UK Grandmother in 1950, was South African (born in SA but has 1820 British Settler heritage but irrelevant for this CBR I assume).
Citizenships: My mother (South African born but currently on UK ancestral visa through her grandfather's British ancestry since Feb '21), my Father (South African and was denied the ability to get a UK passport through my maternal grandmother, whilst she was still alive many years ago). Myself - South African.
Maternal grandparents married or not at her birth: I assume you mean grandparents married during my father's birth - if so, then yes as my father was born in 1953 and they were married prior to this in 1950.
Your parents married at the time of your birth: Yes - Apr 1984. Subsequently divorced around 2014/2015.

As for the reason why I believe I can apply for British Citizenship by Discretion - I am not sure what to bolster my argument with - other than the above which is what Sable has used to share with me that I am eligible to apply; which is not very much literature to be honest. I assume they'd share more once I have sunk myself into the journey with them.

Is there some form of required proof that my father was discriminated against for not being able to get his UK passport through not having been allowed to be passed down from his UK mother?

Your support is really appreciated as there is not much literature out there on the Internet (besides Sable links) nor on Youtube...

Thanks so much!

justin4d is offline  
Old Oct 4th 2022, 6:55 pm
  #29  
Just Joined
 
Joined: Sep 2022
Posts: 6
sptolsma is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by jmin
Apologies as I only now saw your reply. You may have a valid CBR claim through your mother. I will try to help if you have not already contacted Sable.

Where and in what years were both sets of grandparents born? When were the grandparents married? Were your maternal grandparents married at the time of your mother's birth? What were their citizenships? Where and when was your father born? Were your parents married at the time of your birth?
Paternal grandfather, Dutch: Netherlands 1932
Paternal grandmother, British: England 1930
Married: 1955
Father: South Africa 1958

Maternal grandfather, South African: South Africa ca. 1940
Maternal grandmother, British: England 1942
Married: 1958
Mother: Rhodesia 1959

My birth 1986
My parents married 1985

Thank you!
sptolsma is offline  
Old Oct 5th 2022, 11:19 pm
  #30  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 154
jmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond reputejmin has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by sptolsma
Paternal grandfather, Dutch: Netherlands 1932
Paternal grandmother, British: England 1930
Married: 1955
Father: South Africa 1958

Maternal grandfather, South African: South Africa ca. 1940
Maternal grandmother, British: England 1942
Married: 1958
Mother: Rhodesia 1959

My birth 1986
My parents married 1985

Thank you!
To save time, were either of your parents CUKCs? British Citizens? I see your mother was born during Rhodesia's federal period.
jmin is offline  

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Your Privacy Choices -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.