British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Old Jun 20th 2024, 3:32 pm
  #271  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

BritInParis

Hello,

I'm trying to sort out whether I have a claim to citizenship due to historical unfairness and can file an ARD form.

I was born in the USA in 1983. My mother is a citizen by descent - she was born in Peru in 1949 (both of her parents were citizens otherwise than by descent and born in the UK). My father is an American citizen (both of his parents were born in the USA).

It seems like I could make a claim under Section 9 of the original version of the 1981 British Nationality Act (which granted right of registration to fathers not mothers). However, that language of the act conflicts with earlier language of the act - specifically Section 3. She went to university in Edinburgh, before I was born (and was in the UK for 4 years)...so theoretically I believe I could have been registered.

I am considering hiring a lawyer - but do not want to do so if there is no chance that my application would be accepted on these grounds.

I'd be grateful for any feedback you could provide on this. Thanks.
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Old Jun 20th 2024, 7:25 pm
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by nominal_economist
BritInParis

Hello,

I'm trying to sort out whether I have a claim to citizenship due to historical unfairness and can file an ARD form.

I was born in the USA in 1983. My mother is a citizen by descent - she was born in Peru in 1949 (both of her parents were citizens otherwise than by descent and born in the UK). My father is an American citizen (both of his parents were born in the USA).

It seems like I could make a claim under Section 9 of the original version of the 1981 British Nationality Act (which granted right of registration to fathers not mothers). However, that language of the act conflicts with earlier language of the act - specifically Section 3. She went to university in Edinburgh, before I was born (and was in the UK for 4 years)...so theoretically I believe I could have been registered.

I am considering hiring a lawyer - but do not want to do so if there is no chance that my application would be accepted on these grounds.

I'd be grateful for any feedback you could provide on this. Thanks.
That’s a very interesting question. As you say, you should be eligible to be registered under S.4L BNA 1981 as your mother was unable to register your birth within 12 months under S.9 BNA 1981 due to historical legislative unfairness, i.e. gender discrimination.

That your mother had another potential route to register you as a British citizen under S.3(2) BNA 1981 due to her previous residence in the UK, I think, can be disregarded as S.4L does not require the applicant to have exercised other potential routes. Also from a pragmatic standpoint the Home Office is not going to be aware that your mother spent three years in the UK prior to your birth.

As your application is relatively straightforward and the only outlay would be the ceremony fee of £110 should your application be approved, I would forego the expense of legal advice.
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Old Jun 20th 2024, 8:05 pm
  #273  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Thanks BritInParis, I much appreciate the feedback!

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Old Jun 23rd 2024, 8:14 am
  #274  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Thanks for getting back to me. The only part that I'm still confused by is...

"As such she was born a British subject and became a Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies (CUKC) by birth on 1 January 1949 with the commencement of S.12(1)(a) of the British Nationality Act 1948."
If my grandmother was born in England, why would she have become a CUKC by birth on 1 January 1949? Surely her status as a British subject would have allowed her the same ability to transfer citizenship to her children? Or is the mention of her being a CUKC adding emphasis to the narrative that my mother should have been a CUKC by descent and that she should have been able to register me as a British citizen by descent?

To confirm, I would never have had automatic claim to citizenship? And if successful, I'd need to pay the full fee?




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Old Jun 23rd 2024, 8:21 am
  #275  
 
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by MellySA
Thanks for getting back to me. The only part that I'm still confused by is...

"As such she was born a British subject and became a Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies (CUKC) by birth on 1 January 1949 with the commencement of S.12(1)(a) of the British Nationality Act 1948."
If my grandmother was born in England, why would she have become a CUKC by birth on 1 January 1949? Surely her status as a British subject would have allowed her the same ability to transfer citizenship to her children? Or is the mention of her being a CUKC adding emphasis to the narrative that my mother should have been a CUKC by descent and that she should have been able to register me as a British citizen by descent?

To confirm, I would never have had automatic claim to citizenship? And if successful, I'd need to pay the full fee?
She would have become a CUKC on 1 January 1949 because the law changed and British subjects with a connection to the UK and its colonies (as opposed to its dominions, like Canada and Australia) became CUKCs. Likewise CUKCs with a connection to the UK become British citizens on 1 January 1983 with the commencement of the British Nationality Act 1981.
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Old Jun 25th 2024, 9:28 am
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Hi BritInParis, just wanted to say a big thank you to you and others for your help. I've finally sent off my ARD application (from within the UK) as of yesterday.

Will update with timeliness, successes/failures once I've heard back. Regardless of whether it's successful or not, I really appreciate the help. Thank you!
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Old Jun 25th 2024, 10:35 am
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

I hope you didn't pay the application fee. I can't remember your exact case but it looks like a grandmother one? If so, you should have only paid the ceremony fee.
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Old Jun 25th 2024, 11:48 am
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by MellySA
Hi BritInParis, just wanted to say a big thank you to you and others for your help. I've finally sent off my ARD application (from within the UK) as of yesterday.

Will update with timeliness, successes/failures once I've heard back. Regardless of whether it's successful or not, I really appreciate the help. Thank you!
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Old Jun 25th 2024, 7:57 pm
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Glassybell I only paid the ceremony fee. My hope is that if they decide that I should have paid, they'll contact me requesting the additional funds. I've seen this happen with a few cases.

When I had originally enquired through Sable they said it would only be the ceremony fee. Then a few months ago they sent a follow up email to say that the HO requires the full registration fee for these applications.

The trouble is Sable have been wrong about a few things when I've contacted them in the past - ie, told me I couldn't apply for a new vignette on my ancestry visa, which I did. And told me I wouldn't be able to add dependents to an existing visa, again, which I was able to.

I'm giving it a go without the fee on the off-chance they're mistaken about this.

In nutshell -
  1. Grandmother born in England 1935
  2. Mother born in South Africa 1961(foreign country)
  3. I was born 1987 in South Africa (within the 5 year transitional period)
  4. Mother obtained citizenship through Section 4C in 2012, renounced SA citizenship and has lived in England ever since.
Applying through Section 4L on the basis of Gender discrimination

Last edited by MellySA; Jun 25th 2024 at 8:02 pm.
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Old Jul 5th 2024, 3:39 am
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Hi everyone, I've gone through this thread and thank you so much for your insight into the process. I wish I saw it before I applied, would've have been such a great help in strengthening my argument so much more!

I'm not sure I've seen a case like mine mentioned so I'd really appreciate your thoughts on what my chances are. I applied on Historical Legislative Unfairness. Born in the UK, I have a non-British mother but my father had Settled status shortly after I was born (before 2006), but he was unmarried to my mother, never married and the laws at the time considered me illegitimate for the purpose of nationality so he couldn't register me, and I couldn't apply under Section 1(3) of BNA 1981, which states, A person born in the United Kingdom after commencement who is not a British citizen by virtue of subsection (1) or (2) shall be entitled to be registered as a British citizen if, while he is a minor—

(a) his father or mother becomes a British citizen or becomes settled in the United Kingdom; and

(b) an application is made for his registration as a British citizen.

My father is only just applying for British Citizenship (he's had ILR all these years) so I couldn't apply using UKF form. I'm also over the age of 18 so MN1 isnt an option either. Do you think I have a shot with ARD form? Thanks!
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Old Jul 5th 2024, 4:29 am
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

What was your mother's nationality and what was her status in the UK at time of your birth?
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Old Jul 5th 2024, 4:39 am
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by SanDiegogirl
What was your mother's nationality and what was her status in the UK at time of your birth?
She was Ghanaian and on a student visa.
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Old Jul 7th 2024, 2:31 am
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by debbsss
Hi everyone, I've gone through this thread and thank you so much for your insight into the process. I wish I saw it before I applied, would've have been such a great help in strengthening my argument so much more!

I'm not sure I've seen a case like mine mentioned so I'd really appreciate your thoughts on what my chances are. I applied on Historical Legislative Unfairness. Born in the UK, I have a non-British mother but my father had Settled status shortly after I was born (before 2006), but he was unmarried to my mother, never married and the laws at the time considered me illegitimate for the purpose of nationality so he couldn't register me, and I couldn't apply under Section 1(3) of BNA 1981, which states, A person born in the United Kingdom after commencement who is not a British citizen by virtue of subsection (1) or (2) shall be entitled to be registered as a British citizen if, while he is a minor—

(a) his father or mother becomes a British citizen or becomes settled in the United Kingdom; and

(b) an application is made for his registration as a British citizen.

My father is only just applying for British Citizenship (he's had ILR all these years) so I couldn't apply using UKF form. I'm also over the age of 18 so MN1 isnt an option either. Do you think I have a shot with ARD form? Thanks!


Does anyone think it would be a straightforward case as there are no current registration provisions for people born between 1983 and 2006 (over 18) who would have been able to register under Section 1(3) but for the law not acknowledging unmarried fathers for the purpose of passing on nationality?


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Old Jul 9th 2024, 9:21 am
  #284  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Hello all - this thread is fantastic - thanks to everyone sharing your expertise! I (born in the US in 1970) am planning to submit a claim for citizenship, and am hoping to get your insight - is it is an issue that my maternal grandfather, born in England in 1920, emigrated to the US as a child, married, and had my mother in 1943 (prior to the 1948 law)?

From my read, unless he renounced his British citizenship prior to 1948 (which he did not), then in 1948 by virtue of having been born in England, he would have become a CUKC, and hence my mother, born in a foreign nation to a UK born citizen, a CUKC by descent? I wasn't sure what proof if any I needed to show that he retained his British citizenship prior to BNA 1948 - thoughts? I don't have any green cards, passports, etc for him - just his British birth certificate.
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Old Jul 9th 2024, 10:06 am
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by debbsss
Does anyone think it would be a straightforward case as there are no current registration provisions for people born between 1983 and 2006 (over 18) who would have been able to register under Section 1(3) but for the law not acknowledging unmarried fathers for the purpose of passing on nationality?
It’s certainly an interesting concept given the relative cost in application fees. Let us know how you get on.
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