British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Old Jan 13th 2024, 4:06 pm
  #226  
 
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by Minimum_Watch1238
The basis of the application is that my father "would" have been a British citizen when I was born but for an act/omission of the Home Office (who took 22 months to process my fathers naturalisation application).

My father lodged his application for citizenship in person with Home Office in January 1990. He was entitled to citizenship by virtue of having been a resident and working in the UK for a number of years - he had leave to work and reside indefinitely.

It took the Home Office 22 months to process the application, with the naturalisation certificate issued in November 1991. The reason this affects me is that I was born in June 1991 - 17 months after my father submitted his application and I was therefore unable to qualify for citizenship as the child of a British subject at birth.

My father has made a Subject Action Request under the Data Protection Act 2018 from the Home Office which revealed no reason for the delay in processing his application. We have also made numerous FOI requests to the Home Office to ascertain average processing times for naturalisation applications of my father's type in the early 1990s but have not received anything useful under these requests (due to costs of obtaining this and/or the information no longer being available). Having exhausted these available options we are therefore unable to ascertain whether 17 months is an exceptional processing time so are proceeding with the section 4L BNA application (appreciate this may be a long shot!). We just need to correct legislative reference (for automatic rights to citizenship by descent) to finalise this.
That’s certainly an interesting angle. Presuming you were born overseas, then the relevant section and act would be S.2(1)(a) BNA 1981.
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Old Jan 21st 2024, 2:40 pm
  #227  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Hello,

I've read through this thread and am relatively confident that my circumstances allow me to apply for citizenship via the Form ARD/section 4L route. That is:
  • my maternal grandfather was born in 1920 in the UK and held British citizenship;
  • my mother was born in 1954 in South Africa and holds British citizenship (I presume via descent although I am uncertain at what point she acquired it); and
  • I was born in 1987 in South Africa.

What I’m unsure about is how to answer questions 1.4(a) and (b). Do my circumstances mean that I would have been able to acquire British citizenship by registration (i.e. answering “yes” to Q1.4(a)) or would I have had an automatic claim (i.e. answering “yes” to Q1.4(b)).

Any guidance would be much appreciated - thanks.
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Old Jan 22nd 2024, 11:18 am
  #228  
 
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by dampfray
Hello,

I've read through this thread and am relatively confident that my circumstances allow me to apply for citizenship via the Form ARD/section 4L route. That is:
  • my maternal grandfather was born in 1920 in the UK and held British citizenship;
  • my mother was born in 1954 in South Africa and holds British citizenship (I presume via descent although I am uncertain at what point she acquired it); and
  • I was born in 1987 in South Africa.

What I’m unsure about is how to answer questions 1.4(a) and (b). Do my circumstances mean that I would have been able to acquire British citizenship by registration (i.e. answering “yes” to Q1.4(a)) or would I have had an automatic claim (i.e. answering “yes” to Q1.4(b)).

Any guidance would be much appreciated - thanks.
Q1.4(a): No
Q1.4(b): Yes

P.S. If you haven’t already done so be sure you obtain permission to retain your South African citizenship before submitting your application for registration as a British citizen.

Last edited by BritInParis; Jan 22nd 2024 at 11:20 am.
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Old Jan 22nd 2024, 12:06 pm
  #229  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by BritInParis
Q1.4(a): No
Q1.4(b): Yes

P.S. If you haven’t already done so be sure you obtain permission to retain your South African citizenship before submitting your application for registration as a British citizen.
Thanks for the helpful response!
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Old Jan 23rd 2024, 5:25 pm
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by Garethlochhead
Good day everyone

Thank you for the wealth of knowledge in this thread. It has been very encouraging to read and I believe I should qualify to become a British Citizen. My sister who is born in 1988 might have a slightly more complex case.

Please see the details below of my family tree:

Gareth(myself) Born 1986 South Africa
Catherine Born 1988 South Africa

Father Born 1952 South Africa In about 2011 Obtained British Citizenship through mother due to gender equality changes
Mother Born 1959 Northern Rhodesia (Zambia) British from birth and naturalized South Africa
Mother & Father Married October 1983 in South Africa

Paternal Grandfather Born 1918 South Africa
Paternal Grandmother Born 1925 England
Paternal Grandparents married 1948 in South Africa

Maternal Grandfather Born 1926 England
Maternal Grandmother Born 1928 England
Maternal Grandparents married 1952 in England

1. Do you believe I qualify due to historical legislative unfairness?
2. Does my sister Catherine have a case?

All insight and advise would be greatly appreciated.

Regards
Gareth
BritInParis jmin I would appreciate any advice you could give on these circumstances. You both seem to have a world of knowledge.

Kind regards
Gareth
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Old Jan 26th 2024, 4:55 pm
  #231  
 
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by Garethlochhead
BritInParis jmin I would appreciate any advice you could give on these circumstances. You both seem to have a world of knowledge.

Kind regards
Gareth
Given your sister was born after 1987 I don’t immediately see a solution for her.
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Old Feb 2nd 2024, 1:07 pm
  #232  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by xoomyto
  • Application mailed from the UK late December 2022
  • My 80 GBP was deducted from my current account in the UK 03/20 ( I was a student there and still maintain my account 😂)
  • The next day they sent me an email telling me to book an appointment for fingerprints.
  • Fingerprints done successfully in the US today

Does anyone knows what would typically happened next ? Will they ask for more documents ? Do I need to go for an interview? Ceremony ? Or just instruct me to go pick up my certificate ? I appreciate any answers
Good morning everyone,
So today I got this email that says :
( Dear



I refer to your application for British citizenship under section 4L.

The appropriate fee is £1206.00

The amount we have received is £80.00 Therefore we need a further £1126.00. In order to continue with your application.

As you would have qualified for registration under Section 9 of the British Nationality Act 1981 or naturalisation but for legislative unfairness, an act or omission of a public authority or exceptional circumstances, you will still need to pay an application fee to register under this route, as well as a ceremony fee. This registration fee will cost £1206.00 and fees are payable in accordance with The Immigration and Nationality (Fees) Regulations 2018. Please see the payment slip attached for you to return to the address provided within the slip.

As noted above a further payment of £1126.00 is required.)

So grandad born in UK 1906, dad born outside UK in the 50s but registered as British citizen in the 70s. I was born overseas in 1987. I did apply using ARD form. It looks like they don't want to process my application as I applied where I just have to pay 80 they want me to pay 1206. Does anyone know why? Will my children be able to become British as well ?

Also it's worth mentioning that in ARD form I told them my dad went to British embassy in 1988 to register me but consulate people declined my dad's request. I was dad's first newborn and my father had plans to go UK and live there and because of that we didn't all go UK. Will my siblings be able to apply for British citizenship as well ?

Thanks lovely people !
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Old Feb 4th 2024, 10:13 am
  #233  
 
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by xoomyto
Good morning everyone,
So today I got this email that says :
( Dear



I refer to your application for British citizenship under section 4L.

The appropriate fee is £1206.00

The amount we have received is £80.00 Therefore we need a further £1126.00. In order to continue with your application.

As you would have qualified for registration under Section 9 of the British Nationality Act 1981 or naturalisation but for legislative unfairness, an act or omission of a public authority or exceptional circumstances, you will still need to pay an application fee to register under this route, as well as a ceremony fee. This registration fee will cost £1206.00 and fees are payable in accordance with The Immigration and Nationality (Fees) Regulations 2018. Please see the payment slip attached for you to return to the address provided within the slip.

As noted above a further payment of £1126.00 is required.)

So grandad born in UK 1906, dad born outside UK in the 50s but registered as British citizen in the 70s. I was born overseas in 1987. I did apply using ARD form. It looks like they don't want to process my application as I applied where I just have to pay 80 they want me to pay 1206. Does anyone know why? Will my children be able to become British as well ?

Also it's worth mentioning that in ARD form I told them my dad went to British embassy in 1988 to register me but consulate people declined my dad's request. I was dad's first newborn and my father had plans to go UK and live there and because of that we didn't all go UK. Will my siblings be able to apply for British citizenship as well ?

Thanks lovely people !
What was the claim that you made on Form ARD? I don’t currently see how you qualify if you were born in 1987 and your father failed to register you in time.
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Old Feb 4th 2024, 1:01 pm
  #234  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by BritInParis
What was the claim that you made on Form ARD? I don’t currently see how you qualify if you were born in 1987 and your father failed to register you in time.
My father tried to register me but consulate staff declined to do so as they told my father that he was a citizen by descent and they couldn't pass the citizenship to me as I was born after 1983. He tried to do so 2 months after I was born.
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Old Feb 6th 2024, 6:53 am
  #235  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by xoomyto
Good morning everyone,
So today I got this email that says :
( Dear



I refer to your application for British citizenship under section 4L.

The appropriate fee is £1206.00

The amount we have received is £80.00 Therefore we need a further £1126.00. In order to continue with your application.

As you would have qualified for registration under Section 9 of the British Nationality Act 1981 or naturalisation but for legislative unfairness, an act or omission of a public authority or exceptional circumstances, you will still need to pay an application fee to register under this route, as well as a ceremony fee. This registration fee will cost £1206.00 and fees are payable in accordance with The Immigration and Nationality (Fees) Regulations 2018. Please see the payment slip attached for you to return to the address provided within the slip.

As noted above a further payment of £1126.00 is required.)

So grandad born in UK 1906, dad born outside UK in the 50s but registered as British citizen in the 70s. I was born overseas in 1987. I did apply using ARD form. It looks like they don't want to process my application as I applied where I just have to pay 80 they want me to pay 1206. Does anyone know why? Will my children be able to become British as well ?

Also it's worth mentioning that in ARD form I told them my dad went to British embassy in 1988 to register me but consulate people declined my dad's request. I was dad's first newborn and my father had plans to go UK and live there and because of that we didn't all go UK. Will my siblings be able to apply for British citizenship as well ?

Thanks lovely people !
maybe it's because your aplication was under the basis of "BNA1981s9 *or* naturalisation"
anyone who applied under S9 can confirm how much they paid?
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Old Feb 6th 2024, 1:10 pm
  #236  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Hi there,

I am so glad I found this thread. I am currently in the UK on an ancestral visa and my 2 kids as dependents aged 11&12.

I recently received a mail from sable too stating that I have a likely claim of “British Citizenship by discretion (CBR post 1982 - mother legitimate CCh2) - not sure what any of it really means.

As it has been pointed out, the fees for them to handle the application are a little excessive, considering they claim the only amount that would be payable to HMPO is £80 for my application and £1214 per child.

If anyone could tell me which forms I would need to complete, maybe give me the wording argument to be used etc I would really appreciate it cause as a single mom I simply can’t afford their fees and I feel like I’m no closer to saving enough for ILR either and we already a year and a half in.

The details are as follows
Grandfather: Born in UK 12 November 1931
Grandmother: Born in Umtali (Zim) 31 May 1937
Married: 4 September 1956

Mother: born in Mutare (Zim) on 2 April 1957 (my mother held a British child passport that states “British subject: citizen of the United Kingdom and colonies”) she is currently applying for her adult passport again as he last BP was stolen when she was around 19. Sable handled this application and applied for her passport ‘by decent’ Her current ID and passport are South African.

father: born in SA on 26 Dec 1960
married: 16 June 1984

I was born in SA on 26 Jan 1986
son born in SA 3 April 2011
daughter born in SA 4 Sep 2012

I see there are so many informed people here that have helped many others and although I have read all the threads I would just like clarity on my specific case cause this is all so very nerve recking.

Much appreciated

Last edited by ClaireN; Feb 6th 2024 at 1:17 pm. Reason: Left out crucial detail
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Old Feb 10th 2024, 3:38 pm
  #237  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Hi all

I was wondering if anyone had advice on my case. I have previously gone through Sable international and unfortunately they couldn't help me. I was recently contacted by Sable as there have been new law changes and I am now likely to qualify for British citizenship.


I am a South African citizen, living in the UK on an Ancestry visa granted in November 2020;

●I applied on the basis of my paternal grandparents:
○ My grandfather, was born in Glasgow in Scotland on 22 February 1929;
○ My grandmother, was born in Ealing in England on 3 October 1932;
○ My paternal grandparents married on 24 July 1954 in England;
○ My father, was born in Southern Rhodesia on 16 October 1961 (this was shortly after my grandfather finished Crown Service having been sent from Malawi to Southern Rhodesia as an agricultural officer in 1958).
My father has a British passport (his father finished Crown Service prior to his birth, My father is a British citizen by descent);
○ My mother a South African citizen married my father on 30 June 1984, and shortly after that I was born on 21 February 1986;
● My wife is a British citizen, working as a nurse in London;
● Our daughter was born in London on the 6th Jan 2024 and has British citizenship.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Below are the new law changes I was referring to.SOLUTION NAME: NEW - British Citizenship by Discretion (4L Post 82 - PGF)
Relevant family members:
You


This new solution has arisen in February 2024, following extensive research of the drafting of the British Nationality Act 1981 and the purpose of specific clauses therein.

The UK Government entered into a treaty with the United Nations some years ago to enshrine equal rights for women and children. Included in the Treaty is the right for their children (and potentially, their grandchildren) to acquire citizenship by descent on the same terms as if such a right had come down the paternal side of the family. Equally, any discrimination against children born out of wedlock must be addressed. While the UK had previously passed legislation to allow such claims, the Home Office has interpreted this legislation in relation to making claims to British Nationality by descent to be effective only for those born in the first generation. The historic legislative framework of the UK therefore did not fully address gender discrimination in relation to citizenship applications.

It was only in 1983 that the issue of gender discrimination in British nationality law was addressed for the first time. However, there remained many areas in the law that were not taken into account, and several further changes have been made in the years since 1983 to remedy these. But the complexities of the old laws, and the legacy of the British colonial empire, meant that instances of unfairness still remained.

- Applicant born in a qualifying country (which includes South Africa and the United States);


- Applicant born between 1 January 1983 and 31 December 1987; AND

- Applicant's paternal grandfather was born in the UK.
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Old Feb 12th 2024, 11:14 pm
  #238  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

I'm submitting my form ARD. I read that children of people who are approved for citizenship can now also receive citizenship. Is that true? Can I apply for my son's he's 7 citizenship at the same time as me? How would I go about it?
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Old Feb 22nd 2024, 12:59 am
  #239  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by Snowy45
Congratulations Aartsuk, great news.

I follow your scenario and submitted a few weeks after you, so hopefully will hear myself in a few weeks.
any news?
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Old Feb 24th 2024, 9:45 am
  #240  
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Smile Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by carl_robson
My friends received their responses today - a definite no for applications tied to great grandmothers unfortunately (all born before 1983 and would have become BOCs if they’d descended from a male). At least we tried and their mother and uncle were successful in theirs!
I realize this is an old thread but was hoping carl_robson is still around... Did your friends receive a letter indicating specifically why their L4s were rejected via the great grandmother? If so, can you kindly share the details? I agree with the logic of your posts and don't understand why a generation past Romein in the spirit of making up for historical unfairness is interpreted differently. I don't see where L4 limits a specific generation as written if you supply the required documentation. In fact limiting it in itself could be considered discriminatory as to the intention of it. I have a similar situation but with different birth years which could be relevant so it would be helpful to know details of other similar cases. Thanks!
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