British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Old Oct 8th 2023, 4:58 am
  #181  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by Glassybell
Yes, that is the email address to use.
Great thank you! Looks like a longish wait.
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Old Oct 9th 2023, 7:13 pm
  #182  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

My cousins attended their ceremony at the British embassy on Oct. 2nd, 40+ days from approval.

My sister and I are 8 months post application, and 6 months + 1 week post biometrics. Our enquiry was sent last week.
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Old Oct 11th 2023, 7:43 am
  #183  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Hi,
Anyone who has done an 4L route (historical legislative unfairness/gender discrimination) application….. Did you pay the £1200 or just the £80 ceremony fee?
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Old Oct 11th 2023, 7:47 am
  #184  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by ARheeder
Hi,
Anyone who has done an 4L route (historical legislative unfairness/gender discrimination) application….. Did you pay the £1200 or just the £80 ceremony fee?
It depends on your basis for the ARD application. I applied based on having a UK-born grandmother and I only paid the ceremony fee. If your claim was NOT an automatic one (consulate birth registration under section 5 of the 1948BNA counts as automatic, which on the face is confusing because of the word registration, but it is automatic), then you'd pay the application fee and ceremony fee, otherwise just the ceremony fee. You might have better luck saying what your basis is and asking what fee you'd pay.
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Old Oct 11th 2023, 8:01 am
  #185  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by Glassybell
It depends on your basis for the ARD application. I applied based on having a UK-born grandmother and I only paid the ceremony fee. If your claim was NOT an automatic one (consulate birth registration under section 5 of the 1948BNA counts as automatic, which on the face is confusing because of the word registration, but it is automatic), then you'd pay the application fee and ceremony fee, otherwise just the ceremony fee. You might have better luck saying what your basis is and asking what fee you'd pay.
Im applying through my UK born grandmother

Claim: If not for historical legislative unfairness/gender discrimination my mother could have registered me under BNA 1981 Section 9 (consular birth registration). I am therefore eligible to register as a British Citizen due to the recent changes in British Nationality Law (Section 4L of BNA 1981 which came into force on 28 June 2022).
  1. I was born in 1983 in South Africa. (South Africa is a foreign country under the act from 31 May 1962 to 25 July 1994, important to include this here for the examiner because section 9 registrations require birth in a foreign country under the meaning of the act - many countries are not considered 'foreign' countries).
  2. I was born during BNA 1981's transitional period for consular birth registrations (1983-1987). (Section 9 of BNA 1981)
  3. My mother, born in Southern Rhodesia in 1960, could have been a British citizen by descent if not for gender discrimination (if this was a UKM/4C registration put 'she subsequently acquired British citizenship after my birth in 2019 because the law changed to address this historical legislative unfairness through section 4C'). Specifically, if not for gender discrimination she could have been a British citizen because her mother (my maternal grandmother) was born in the UK in 1934.
  4. My maternal grandmother was born in the United Kingdom in the meaning used in BNA 1981 (birth within the United Kingdom and Islands - specifically where so the examiner understands you mean UK as in England/Scotland/Wales/NI)
  5. I would have had the right of abode under the test set out in section 9(1)(b) of BNA 1981 because my maternal grandmother was born in the United Kingdom (Immigration Act of 1971 section 2(1)(b)(ii)).
  6. I satisfy the test in section 9(2) of BNA 1981 because:
  • Immediately before the commencement of BNA 1981 my mother could have been a CUKC by descent if not for historical legislative unfairness/gender discrimination (Section 5 of the 1948 Act) Note: If she did register using Form UKM/4C mention it but regardless section 9 only applied to fathers so gender discrimination that your mother could not make use of when you were born in 1983).
  • My mother married my father in 1979 and remained married when I was born in 1983 (although whether or not they were married at the time of my birth is immaterial as it is also historical legislative unfairness)
  • My mother was 'ordinarily resident' in a foreign country under the meaning of the 1948 Act (South Africa is a foreign country under the act from 31 May 1962 to 25 July 1994 and my mother became ordinarily resident in South Africa in 1980).
  • My mother would have become a British Citizen on commencement of BNA 1981 if not for historical legislative unfairness/gender discrimination (CUKCs by descent with a parent born in the UK became British Citizens on commencement by section 11(1) of BNA 1981).



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Old Oct 11th 2023, 9:07 am
  #186  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

So, my son's application for CBD was received a month ago and we just got an email inviting him to submit his biometrics. Is this something that happens at the beginning of the process for everyone? Just trying to get a sense of the timeline.

I see he has 30 working days to do this, which is about 6 weeks. I stupidly sent in his original passport with the application, which he would need at his biometric appointment as his photo ID. I asked the UKVI to return the passport a few days ago but not sure how long that would take (to Australia). I am thinking I should let them know we are waiting for his passport to be returned?
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Old Oct 11th 2023, 9:18 am
  #187  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by Henndigo
So, my son's application for CBD was received a month ago and we just got an email inviting him to submit his biometrics. Is this something that happens at the beginning of the process for everyone? Just trying to get a sense of the timeline.

I see he has 30 working days to do this, which is about 6 weeks. I stupidly sent in his original passport with the application, which he would need at his biometric appointment as his photo ID. I asked the UKVI to return the passport a few days ago but not sure how long that would take (to Australia). I am thinking I should let them know we are waiting for his passport to be returned?
Getting biometrics done is what starts the six month clock for processing your application. I had sent my original passport with my application too and really regretted it. 5 months after my biometrics I asked for it back, and within a week they sent it to me. So perhaps you will have a similar experience with having it returned. I emailed at the furthernationalityenquiries email address, they wrote back after a few days that they'd return it, and a week later I had it in my mailbox.

(My experience is US-based and I don't know if it will differ for Australia.) When you do biometrics you can (at least in the US) use your state-issued ID - I used my driver's license. However, UKVI is supposed to tell the Application Support Center (again, US) that you will not have a passport and that they can accept your alternate ID. In my case that didn't happen and it resulted in me spending about 4-5 hours hanging out at ASC trying to get it sorted. I had a very helpful ASC manager rooting for me and trying to help, and I ended up emailing the address found on the biometrics email/letter and they were able to get approval sent to ASC for me to use my license as ID. It was incredibly stressful and I was only successful because of how helpful the ASC manager was and how responsive the UKVI person answering emails was. So if you can get the passport back in time that will help, but if not, contact the UKVI email address that you get with the biometrics appointment email (the one I received started with "NationalityExceptionsTechnical") and ask them what to do. If having it done in Australia is the same as in the US, that person answering your email should be able to tell the place you'll do your biometrics at that you will not have a passport and to accept your alternate ID.
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Old Oct 11th 2023, 9:42 am
  #188  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by Glassybell
Getting biometrics done is what starts the six month clock for processing your application. I had sent my original passport with my application too and really regretted it. 5 months after my biometrics I asked for it back, and within a week they sent it to me. So perhaps you will have a similar experience with having it returned. I emailed at the furthernationalityenquiries email address, they wrote back after a few days that they'd return it, and a week later I had it in my mailbox.

(My experience is US-based and I don't know if it will differ for Australia.) When you do biometrics you can (at least in the US) use your state-issued ID - I used my driver's license. However, UKVI is supposed to tell the Application Support Center (again, US) that you will not have a passport and that they can accept your alternate ID. In my case that didn't happen and it resulted in me spending about 4-5 hours hanging out at ASC trying to get it sorted. I had a very helpful ASC manager rooting for me and trying to help, and I ended up emailing the address found on the biometrics email/letter and they were able to get approval sent to ASC for me to use my license as ID. It was incredibly stressful and I was only successful because of how helpful the ASC manager was and how responsive the UKVI person answering emails was. So if you can get the passport back in time that will help, but if not, contact the UKVI email address that you get with the biometrics appointment email (the one I received started with "NationalityExceptionsTechnical") and ask them what to do. If having it done in Australia is the same as in the US, that person answering your email should be able to tell the place you'll do your biometrics at that you will not have a passport and to accept your alternate ID.
Oh fantastic! Thank you for such a quick response and it was especially helpful as you have had the same experience of sending in the original passport as well. My son doesn't have any other photo ID as he isn't driving yet but I will make the biometric appointment for 4 weeks in the hope that he gets his passport back in time by then. I can apply for a photo proof of ID from our State registry for him by the looks of it too, so hopefully come his appointment we will have at least one of those documents handy!
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Old Oct 11th 2023, 5:24 pm
  #189  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by ARheeder
Im applying through my UK born grandmother

Claim: If not for historical legislative unfairness/gender discrimination my mother could have registered me under BNA 1981 Section 9 (consular birth registration). I am therefore eligible to register as a British Citizen due to the recent changes in British Nationality Law (Section 4L of BNA 1981 which came into force on 28 June 2022).
  1. I was born in 1983 in South Africa. (South Africa is a foreign country under the act from 31 May 1962 to 25 July 1994, important to include this here for the examiner because section 9 registrations require birth in a foreign country under the meaning of the act - many countries are not considered 'foreign' countries).
  2. I was born during BNA 1981's transitional period for consular birth registrations (1983-1987). (Section 9 of BNA 1981)
  3. My mother, born in Southern Rhodesia in 1960, could have been a British citizen by descent if not for gender discrimination (if this was a UKM/4C registration put 'she subsequently acquired British citizenship after my birth in 2019 because the law changed to address this historical legislative unfairness through section 4C'). Specifically, if not for gender discrimination she could have been a British citizen because her mother (my maternal grandmother) was born in the UK in 1934.
  4. My maternal grandmother was born in the United Kingdom in the meaning used in BNA 1981 (birth within the United Kingdom and Islands - specifically where so the examiner understands you mean UK as in England/Scotland/Wales/NI)
  5. I would have had the right of abode under the test set out in section 9(1)(b) of BNA 1981 because my maternal grandmother was born in the United Kingdom (Immigration Act of 1971 section 2(1)(b)(ii)).
  6. I satisfy the test in section 9(2) of BNA 1981 because:
  • Immediately before the commencement of BNA 1981 my mother could have been a CUKC by descent if not for historical legislative unfairness/gender discrimination (Section 5 of the 1948 Act) Note: If she did register using Form UKM/4C mention it but regardless section 9 only applied to fathers so gender discrimination that your mother could not make use of when you were born in 1983).
  • My mother married my father in 1979 and remained married when I was born in 1983 (although whether or not they were married at the time of my birth is immaterial as it is also historical legislative unfairness)
  • My mother was 'ordinarily resident' in a foreign country under the meaning of the 1948 Act (South Africa is a foreign country under the act from 31 May 1962 to 25 July 1994 and my mother became ordinarily resident in South Africa in 1980).
  • My mother would have become a British Citizen on commencement of BNA 1981 if not for historical legislative unfairness/gender discrimination (CUKCs by descent with a parent born in the UK became British Citizens on commencement by section 11(1) of BNA 1981).
From May to December 2022, we were under the impression we had to pay an application fee. But when it was time to apply, the lawyer charged us GBP 80, as a ceremony fee and explained that the HO had confirmed that applicants with CBR claims aren't required to pay an application fee. Like you, we were born during the 5 year transitional period 83-87 when CBR was still an option.

We haven't received a decision yet, but you can find at least one member here in this thread who was successful in his application on the same basis, and he only paid the ceremony fee.

Hope that helps.
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Old Oct 12th 2023, 6:23 am
  #190  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by MOUK
From May to December 2022, we were under the impression we had to pay an application fee. But when it was time to apply, the lawyer charged us GBP 80, as a ceremony fee and explained that the HO had confirmed that applicants with CBR claims aren't required to pay an application fee. Like you, we were born during the 5 year transitional period 83-87 when CBR was still an option.

We haven't received a decision yet, but you can find at least one member here in this thread who was successful in his application on the same basis, and he only paid the ceremony fee.

Hope that helps.
Yes, that helps. Thank you 😊
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Old Oct 13th 2023, 9:29 pm
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Did anyone make their biometric appointment recently or remember what it was like? I am a bit frustrated because the link provided for making my son's appointment in the invitation letter does not work. I have tried it on multiple devices with no luck and also typing in the link manually.

I tried googling it and eventually found a VFS.Global booking page for my country and city for UK visas and citizenship. But the format of the enrolment reference being asked for is different to the letter. In the letter it is in the format UKN-UK-XX-XXXXXX-X but on the booking site I am required to put something like their example of GWF1234567890. I have tried different combinations with no luck.

I have sent an email asking for help but not sure how long that will take. I am still waiting for a response to the email sent last week asking them to return my son's passport. Anyone have the same issue with booking their biometric appointment when they went through this process?

I swear this is an obstacle course designed to make us give up in despair so they can keep the money! For example, you are expected to take a passport to the biometric appointment but also send it to the UK with your application paperwork as well!
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Old Oct 13th 2023, 10:15 pm
  #192  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by Henndigo
I swear this is an obstacle course designed to make us give up in despair so they can keep the money! For example, you are expected to take a passport to the biometric appointment but also send it to the UK with your application paperwork as well!
Can't help with the link I'm afraid, but just to say for the sake of anybody else reading in the future that the passport doesn't need to be sent - good quality full colour copy of it is what is usually recommended.

Good luck, hope you can work out the biometrics.
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Old Oct 14th 2023, 4:33 am
  #193  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

I have finally cracked it! I will outline what i did in case it helps anyone else soon to be applying for their UK citizenship biometric from overseas.

Go to https://mycart.vfsglobal.co.uk/Overseas/default.aspx and create a new account.

The enrolment number to be entered is in the format UKN(plus your 8 digit reference number on the invitation letter).

Then fill out the other details as directed and "'pay" the processing fee (nothing for me to pay in our case but apparently for some centres you do have to pay a fee).

Then once done, email the payment receipt to yourself so you can take it with you to the appointment.

Then schedule the day and time of your appointment. Download the appointment letter, also to take with you.

I have booked the first appointment for 31st October which gives us 2 weeks to get the passport back. I will reschedule it again if needed. Meanwhile, I am organizing some alternative photo ID with our state registry for my son, should he need it.
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Old Oct 20th 2023, 12:38 am
  #194  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by carl_robson
Glassybell Your mother should be able to apply, as she has ROA via her grandmother, but there’s a good chance the Home Office will reject your application. My friends submitted theirs on the same basis a year ago and are still waiting to hear back! Their mother (whose grandmother was born in the UK) was successful, however.

My friends (and you) were subject to gender discrimination but would have become British Overseas Citizens in 1983 as you wouldn’t have been CUKCs with ROA.

The optimist in me in saying the Home Office are debating their case though, and there’s still a chance they’ll be approved. I will keep you updated!
So it appears to me that individuals who apply with a UK born great-grandparent, and a "natural born British Subject" grandparent (born outside of the UK) would not qualify because they would not have attained the Right of Abode as defined by the Immigration Act of 1971 if their parent, and they themselves were also born in a foreign country. Assuming that the failure to acquire the ROA is the reason these applications for British Citizen status are denied, would there not be a claim for these individuals to be recognized as British Overseas Citizens? That was the status bestowed upon CUKCs without ROA by the BNA of 1981. If so, that should make them eligible to acquire a British Passport. They would still get the visa free access that a British passport provides, along with UK consular protection abroad while traveling. The only thing the would not have is the ability to travel to the UK without immigration controls, which doesn't seem like a big issue considering you can stay in the UK for up to 6 months without a visa. So unless you are looking to permanently move to the UK, seems like there is some value to being recognized as a BOC.
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Old Oct 20th 2023, 9:58 am
  #195  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

I agree with you but also read parliamentary debates where they were very clear that Section 4L should not apply to those who would have become BOCs in 1983. The reason being that British Overseas Citizenship was always intended to be time limited in nature and cannot be passed to subsequent generations (save those who are stateless). Granting full British Citizenship to this group (and it would be huge if no generational limit/ROA requirement was applied) would also be a significant upgrade. While I hope they have a change of heart, it remains to be seen! The definition of historical legislative unfairness would suggest they could, but somebody very senior in the Home Office will need to take that call and there be the political will for it happen (my assumption). I shall report back when my friends hear on their applications (it’s been 14 months now).
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