Victor Meldrew

Firstly, I have looked at some other threads and info, but they seem (understandably) to focus more on non-EU spouses.

I am UK born citizen, have worked in the Middle East since 2001. My wife has Portuguese citizenship but has only ever visited UK with me regularly for holidays since we married December 2002.

We have now returned to UK to live permanently (I returned 29th June 2015, my wife 13th July 2015 after visiting relatives)

Questions as follows:
1) Does she need to register for anything, anywhere to notify her permanent arrival?
2) Is she eligible to work and does she need any documentation to prove this/where does she get it from?
3) Can she register with NHS? She has a BUPA Gold card which ends August 31st.

I would be very grateful for clarification regards whether we need to fill any forms/apply for anything regards my wife.

NB We have ensured we are financially able to support ourselves for at least the next 2 years even if neither of us are able to get employment. We have our own house with no mortgage attached.

Thanks
Victor

BritInParis

Is your wife working, studying, retired, etc..? This will affect her access to NHS care and eligibility for permanent residence after five years.

Victor Meldrew

As she only arrived 6 days ago she is still unemployed, but will hopefully be employed by September either voluntarily or paid.

She is in her late 40's so hopefully has plenty of working years ahead of her!

BritInParis

Providing she is working or job-seeking then she deemed to be legally residenct in the UK after the first three months. It's not a legal requirement but it would be useful for her to apply for an EEA registration certificate to confirm her status and thus aid access to services including NHS care. The cost is £65.

https://www.gov.uk/eea-registration-certificate

After five years she can apply for a permanent residence card which confirms her permanent right to remain in the UK and will also confirm that she fulfils the residence requirement for naturalisation as a British citizen if she wants to. This won't affect her Portuguese citizenship in any way.

Victor Meldrew

Thanks BritinParis, we'll take a look at the site.

formula

If an EU jobseeker can't find a job after 3 months they lose their right to reside in the UK. That's in addition to the 3 months their EU passport gives them to visit the UK.

For healthcare, think of it like this. As an EU citizen we visit another EEA country for 3 months and we take our EHIC with us and buy insurance to pay for any medical bills that our EHIC won't cover. If we find work in that EEA country then that country will provide our healthcare. That's the same for EU citizens who come to Britain.

After that initial 3 months, to have reside in the UK under treaty rights, they must be a qualified person. In the UK for EU citizen jobseekers, they can only have another 3 months as a jobseeker before they lose their right to reside.

If they find work and earn enough to pay their national insurance each week, then the UK views them as a Worker Qualified Person and they have a right to reside. The UK gives free NHS to EU worker qualified persons.

From reading everything now, it seems that only EU worker qualified persons can now have free NHS from the UK and the others have to pay the NHS at point of use. 25% added to their bill for EEA citizens if they don't have insurance (not sure if that is in yet) and 50% added to their NHS bill for non-EU citizens if they don't have insurance (that is in according to a post on on here from someone who received a bill).

The UK haven't changed their stance for EU jobseekers since they brought it in 18 months ago and made it retrospective, and it is mentioned again in this 2015 publication from the UK government.

if they don’t have a job after 3 months they will lose their right to reside in the UK.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/e...iversal-credit

If your wife wants PR in the UK after 5 years it is very important that she remains a qualified person at all times for 5 years. Not only because since 2010 the UK deports and ban EU citizens for 1 year if they they don't have a right to reside, but because UKVI are very strict on that rerequirementnd have now been given access to other UK departments records, including NHS and HMRC.

Victor Meldrew

I have just read the article you have put the link to. This seems to relate to people coming into the country and claiming benefits. We will not be doing this whether we are employed or not.

Also, being married to a UK citizen (me) presents a different situation than if we were both EU/Non-UK.

In addition, I will be supporting her if she is unemployed - so no application for benefits at all.

formula

It's the "right to reside" bit I was referring to for EU jobseekers.
"if they don’t have a job after 3 months they will lose their right to reside in the UK".


How does it? Your wife entered the UK as an EU citizen. To reside in the UK after 3 months the EU citizen must be a qualified person: worker, jobseeker, student, self sufficient. There is no 'married to a citizen of that country qualified person' under free movement rules.

If you both moved to a 3rd EEA country (where neither of you were citizens) then different rules apply. One of you could work and the other not, but they still have a right to reside as they are a family member of a qualified person.

I'm not sure if even Singh would work when the spouse is an EU citizen?

Then she won't be allowed to use the NHS for free if she is claiming she is a self sufficient qualified person. The NHS may be a bit slow to check with their system that only started in April 2015, but UKVI will check when she asks for PR. Virtually every post where they are refused PR in the UK after 5 years, is because they didn't have Comprehensive Sickness Insurance to pay for their own healthcare.

rebeccajo

It is worth noting the UK's position on CSI for a self-sufficient individual has been challenged by the European Commission.

This doesn't mean that a person should consider going without CSI at the present time.

European Commission in the UK – Euromyths and Letters to the Editor » Blog Archive » Free movement and migration within the EU and rights to claim benefits – the myths and the facts

"EU law on the coordination of social security systems provides that those EU citizens – and only those – who can show that they are either employed or self-employed in the UK or non-active but habitually resident in the UK (see above for the criteria) are fully entitled to treatment by the NHS on the same terms as resident UK citizens.

UK law is in line with this principle and does allow EU citizens who are genuinely resident in the UK to have full access to NHS treatment.

UK citizens in other Member States have access to state funded healthcare systems there on the same basis.

But the UK does not recognise entitlement to NHS treatment as comprehensive sickness insurance cover within the meaning of EU law on free movement of EU citizens. It is on that issue that the Commission launched “infringement proceedings” (legal action) in 2011 against the UK.

In the Commission’s view, EU law requires that in assessing whether a non-active EU citizen should be entitled to remain in the UK under the free movement rules, the UK authorities must consider NHS cover – IF the person qualifies for it – as sufficient sickness insurance, without requiring them to obtain private insurance. It is worth emphasising again that the mere fact of being present in the UK is NOT enough to ensure qualification for NHS cover.

EU rules do not prescribe to EU countries how they should set up their national health-care systems. They can shape those systems as they see fit and the only obligation is that they cannot discriminate against EU citizens from other EU countries.

Like a number of other Member States (Spain, Portugal, Denmark, Sweden, Finland), the UK has decided to set up a scheme which does not link entitlements to individual contributions."

Victor Meldrew

Hello BritinParis, I have looked on the site/page you suggested. There appear to be 2 options.

One is applying as a 'qualified person' -Complete form EEA (QP) and the other is applying as a family member (of a qualified person) - complete form EEA (FM).

The EEA (FM) form seems to focus only on family members of EEA nationals (which, from reading the rest of the form, seems to mean non-UK EEA Nationals) and families of UK citizens who have gone through Surinder Singh route - neither of which apply to me.

Which form would my wife apply with? My guess it is the QP form and not the FM form. She will be looking for work and ultimately, hopefully be employed.

Thanks again.

formula

That link is 2 1/2 years old. Already challanged by Ahmed(?) a non-EU national who married an EU citizen and then moved to the UK where the EU national became a student. Without CSI, she was not legally in the UK and PR was then refused after 5 years for her (and therefore him as he was her dependant). Ahmed argued that the UK's NHS was her CSI; and that his and her PR should be granted. Lost, as EU law clearly states that an EEA citizen must not be an undue burden to another country.

There have also been cases in court where EU citizens have tried to use the UK's EHIC as their CSI and they have lost.

It is now. The UK use to give free NHS to every EU citizen regardless of whether they worked or not. In 2010 the UK stopped giving free NHS to self sufficients and their dependants and students (but their dependants were still given free NHS) and then starting removing those who had no right to reside after that 3 months as they weren't a qualified person. In 2013(?) limits were imposed for jobseekers.

Amendments made by the UK in 2014 and 2015 and changes to the welfare laws in March 2015 for EU jobseekers, now ensure that only those EU citizens who are in work and making their weekly national insurance contributions can have free NHS paid for by the UK. Dependants of student qualified persons lost their free NHS from the UK last month and they too now need a CSI; which brings them in line with the dependants of self sufficient qualified persons.

Which neatly means that free health care from the UK is now based on NI contributions; from an EU citizen who works enough hours to pay NICs and be a worker qualified person. This also makes it easy for the NHS to check who to bill using HMRCs Real Time system brought in during the tax year 2013/4 and already being used effectively by UKVI.

This from your link it true and I have no idea why those brought up in the EU would think they could do this.
it is a myth that EU law gives all EU citizens an unconditional right to reside freely in the UK or another Member State.

BritInParis

Yes, it's Form EEA (QP) for your wife as she is an EEA national. If permanent residence is your end goal then it's a good idea to start keeping records that will support your wife's future application, i.e. evidence of jobseeking/employment. Take a look at Section 18 of Form EEA (PR).

Victor Meldrew

Hello Brit in Paris. Regarding the 3 months you mentioned, so we also have to wait 3 months before we can apply for the EEA(QP) registration certificate?

My wife arrived on 13th July, so if we have to wait 3 months before submitting the EEA(QP) form that would put us on 13th October before we send it of.

We have just downloaded it (all 35 pages!) and in the process of filling this in.

Luckily we have been in touch with an immigration specialist at the Bolton CAB who has given us some very useful advice/a good picture of where we are up to.

Thanks
Victor

BritInParis

There's no need to wait for three months if your wife is currently exercising her Treaty Rights, e.g. working, studying, self-employed, self-sufficient or looking for work. However if she's still looking for work then she won't be able to claim Jobseeker's Allowance without passing a Habitual Residence Test which would require her to be in the UK for at least three months and without JSA it might prove difficult to prove she is genuinely exercising her Treaty Rights.

Note that it can take up to six months for an EEA Residence Card to be issued. Current processing times seem to be around five months so ensure that your wife only sends off either her Portuguese national ID card or passport as required if you have travel plans, e.g. if you plan to travel outside the EU/EEA then she'll need to keep her passport.

The EEA application forms change very frequently and the grace period for older forms is very short so make sure the form you send off is the latest version before popping it in the post.