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British citizen living abroad? Non-EEA spouse? This may affect you!

British citizen living abroad? Non-EEA spouse? This may affect you!

Old Mar 28th 2012, 3:07 am
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Default Re: Theresa May wants minimum income of £25,700; £49,000 if you have 2 kids

Originally Posted by Ethelred_the_Unready View Post
So my American wife of 9 years would be less welcome than someone coming on a boat from Lithuania? Even though as soon as she got a work permit, we would both be working legitimately and paying taxes? Seems a bit ridiculous, but it most likely means that I'll never be able to return home, especially when we have kids.
With current rules if you and your spouse have "adequate" savings which from what I have read in various section of this forum to be approx. £106/week then she should have no problem considering you have been married for 9 years.

But...unfortunately the new proposed rules can be considered harsh as the income required has jumped significantly from current £13,000 to approx £26,000 and it is yet to be indicated whether savings will account for this or just the income earned in the UK. It is indeed ridiculous as the primary reason for this has been portrayed as ensuring scam marriage couple are not allowed to abuse the system and that Non-EU spouse does not become a burden on the Public funds....no consideration of course is given where many (not all) Eastern Europeans are literally flooding into the UK and living off on benefits.

In my view, the only reason why I see they are scrutinizing non-EU immigrants is because that is one of the rare section of immigration they can target and change without interferences from EU. And the primary aim is not to reduce the immigration (for that they must also fairly target immigrants from EU countries) but I feel the underlying reason is to play on people's fear, on a legitimate issue, with goal to win votes in the elections.

Last edited by manny1980; Mar 28th 2012 at 3:11 am.
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Old Mar 28th 2012, 4:29 am
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Default Re: Theresa May wants minimum income of £25,700; £49,000 if you have 2 kids

Originally Posted by just_jenn View Post
what happens if we put the application in now and some massively high threshold comes in before a decision has been made?

Or even if a decision has been made for that matter??? Can it be revoked?
Firstly - the rules at the time of application are the ones which are relevant. Any decision made must be based on those rules and any appeal will be decided also based on those rules, whether or not they have changed in the meantime. I'm not sure whether it is the date of filling in the online form or the date of the biometric appointment (and thus providing the signed paper form to the UKBA) which is relevant - assume the worst and act early to get the biometrics done too.

Ethelred asked:
Originally Posted by Ethelred_the_Unready View Post
Are there other EU countries we could move to that aren't so strict? Trust me, "home" would also be one of several European countries.
Simple answer - ALL of them. They are all legally required to allow you and your wife to settle for the purpose of (your) employment. You can also relocate in order to look for a job. As long as you are not requesting benefits you're fine.

Originally Posted by scottydog357 View Post
Yet I could potentially face the decision of living here with a worsening medical condition which can lead to severe symptoms, or splitting my family up over some political bull*&^%, which in turn could worsen how I feel.
There are a few avenues open to you (and the other posters, and those who are in a similar situation but haven't posted). They vary in terms of their complexity - in general it's a case of choosing between simple paperwork and logistical practicality; and also in terms of their legality. You need to make your own choice based on your moral compass and personal situation, there is certainly NO RECOMMENDATION for me here:

1) Apply now for ILE. (Legal, technically the correct option, costly 1000-2000GBP, takes between 3 days and 1 year)
You do not need to prove anything more than your earnings potential. Your spouse does not need a language certificate. You don't need a job lined up. I'll PM you scottydog if you like with exactly how we got a visa (after appeal) on this route and some extra bits (eg the appeal court’s ruling) which may mean you get a good decision immediately. The downside is you may have to go through an appeal so it could take a year to get the process finished.

2) Relocate to any other EU country to look for work. (Technically legal, guaranteed visa, free of charge, logistically complicated, requires careful planning to ensure you don’t fall at a later hurdle)
Your wife will be guaranteed a 6 month EEA-family permit for your visit. Obtain proof that you are exercising your treaty rights in another EU country (rental contract, police registration certificate etc.) and apply for a UK EEA-family member permit, which again you are guaranteed as you will then be treated as a foreign EU national under EU law, not a British Citizen. The visas are guaranteed and free of charge (but you need to pay the postage fees). It may be best to apply for a family permit to simply visit the UK while you are looking for work from the other country, the permit is the same one as you would need in order to relocate. Apply for an EEA residence permit after relocating to the UK – I understand from my research that legally you should be able to get this but you may have a bit of difficulty with the UKBA, this would probably be easier if you had applied for a (second?) family permit beforehand, stating the intend to the UK relocate permanently. [http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eu...amily-permit/]
Worth also noting that your spouse would probably not be able to apply for citizenship for 5 years under this route, if you go route 1 it's only a 3-year wait.

3) Get to the UK, claim under Article 8 – right to family life. (Illegal, cheap, fast).
Eg: Apply for an EEA family permit to Ireland, get on a boat; get a visit visa to the UK or get an EEA permit to Belgium, and then get on the Eurostar at Brussels with a ticket for Lille and don’t get off until London.

I'm not a lawyer or a specialist, just a guy who's been jumping through various hoops for 10 years

Last edited by englishguygoinghome; Mar 28th 2012 at 4:29 am. Reason: yuck - grammar again!
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Old Mar 28th 2012, 7:12 am
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Default Re: Theresa May wants minimum income of £25,700; £49,000 if you have 2 kids

Originally Posted by englishguygoinghome View Post
Firstly - the rules at the time of application are the ones which are relevant. Any decision made must be based on those rules and any appeal will be decided also based on those rules, whether or not they have changed in the meantime. I'm not sure whether it is the date of filling in the online form or the date of the biometric appointment (and thus providing the signed paper form to the UKBA) which is relevant - assume the worst and act early to get the biometrics done too.

Ethelred asked:


Simple answer - ALL of them. They are all legally required to allow you and your wife to settle for the purpose of (your) employment. You can also relocate in order to look for a job. As long as you are not requesting benefits you're fine.



There are a few avenues open to you (and the other posters, and those who are in a similar situation but haven't posted). They vary in terms of their complexity - in general it's a case of choosing between simple paperwork and logistical practicality; and also in terms of their legality. You need to make your own choice based on your moral compass and personal situation, there is certainly NO RECOMMENDATION for me here:

1) Apply now for ILE. (Legal, technically the correct option, costly 1000-2000GBP, takes between 3 days and 1 year)
You do not need to prove anything more than your earnings potential. Your spouse does not need a language certificate. You don't need a job lined up. I'll PM you scottydog if you like with exactly how we got a visa (after appeal) on this route and some extra bits (eg the appeal court’s ruling) which may mean you get a good decision immediately. The downside is you may have to go through an appeal so it could take a year to get the process finished.

2) Relocate to any other EU country to look for work. (Technically legal, guaranteed visa, free of charge, logistically complicated, requires careful planning to ensure you don’t fall at a later hurdle)
Your wife will be guaranteed a 6 month EEA-family permit for your visit. Obtain proof that you are exercising your treaty rights in another EU country (rental contract, police registration certificate etc.) and apply for a UK EEA-family member permit, which again you are guaranteed as you will then be treated as a foreign EU national under EU law, not a British Citizen. The visas are guaranteed and free of charge (but you need to pay the postage fees). It may be best to apply for a family permit to simply visit the UK while you are looking for work from the other country, the permit is the same one as you would need in order to relocate. Apply for an EEA residence permit after relocating to the UK – I understand from my research that legally you should be able to get this but you may have a bit of difficulty with the UKBA, this would probably be easier if you had applied for a (second?) family permit beforehand, stating the intend to the UK relocate permanently. [http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eu...amily-permit/]
Worth also noting that your spouse would probably not be able to apply for citizenship for 5 years under this route, if you go route 1 it's only a 3-year wait.

3) Get to the UK, claim under Article 8 – right to family life. (Illegal, cheap, fast).
Eg: Apply for an EEA family permit to Ireland, get on a boat; get a visit visa to the UK or get an EEA permit to Belgium, and then get on the Eurostar at Brussels with a ticket for Lille and don’t get off until London.

I'm not a lawyer or a specialist, just a guy who's been jumping through various hoops for 10 years
A PM would be appreciated as the longer this goes on, the more I am losing my hair! Appreciate your input, thank you.
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Old Mar 28th 2012, 7:47 am
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Default Re: Theresa May wants minimum income of £25,700; £49,000 if you have 2 kids

We're putting together DH's application now and it should be in by the end of next week so hopefully we'll slip through the net on this one.

Anecdotally, I looked up jobs in London in my niche area which would command a higher salary just in case things go horribley wrong. The crazy thing is I could move to London, find a job that pays £37K to meet the requirements for DH and 1 child but I would absolutely be no better off than if I stayed here in Lincolnshire with my current £22K salary. I'd say I really hope they'll consider regional weighting but that seems too logical for these morons.
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Old Mar 28th 2012, 9:21 am
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Default Re: Theresa May wants minimum income of £25,700; £49,000 if you have 2 kids

Originally Posted by manny1980 View Post
With current rules if you and your spouse have "adequate" savings which from what I have read in various section of this forum to be approx. £106/week then she should have no problem considering you have been married for 9 years.

But...unfortunately the new proposed rules can be considered harsh as the income required has jumped significantly from current £13,000 to approx £26,000 and it is yet to be indicated whether savings will account for this or just the income earned in the UK. It is indeed ridiculous as the primary reason for this has been portrayed as ensuring scam marriage couple are not allowed to abuse the system and that Non-EU spouse does not become a burden on the Public funds....no consideration of course is given where many (not all) Eastern Europeans are literally flooding into the UK and living off on benefits.

In my view, the only reason why I see they are scrutinizing non-EU immigrants is because that is one of the rare section of immigration they can target and change without interferences from EU. And the primary aim is not to reduce the immigration (for that they must also fairly target immigrants from EU countries) but I feel the underlying reason is to play on people's fear, on a legitimate issue, with goal to win votes in the elections.
Well, I guess I'll continue learning Swedish and look at Sweden as an alternative. They seem to be more immigrant friendly and the culture wouldn't be too much of a culture shock. As a British person, I would feel most potentially welcome in Scandinavia rather than say France or Germany.
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Old Mar 28th 2012, 9:25 am
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Default Re: Theresa May wants minimum income of £25,700; £49,000 if you have 2 kids

Originally Posted by Ethelred_the_Unready View Post
As a British person, I would feel most potentially welcome in Scandinavia rather than say France or Germany.
Having lived there for many years, I found the Bavarians (southern Germany) to be very friendly to the Brits. The immigration (without a job, staying with my Girlfriend in student dorms) was a doddle and has become easier as was the marriage licence. And once there we could go back to the UK as often as we liked (could even have settled in the UK wihtout too much pain)
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Old Mar 28th 2012, 10:39 am
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Default Re: Theresa May wants minimum income of £25,700; £49,000 if you have 2 kids

Originally Posted by roaringmouse View Post
Oh dear, looks like I'll have to take this slowly, and hold your hand through what's been said already...
Why don't you just take the time to read the visa catagories yourself; they are written in easy to understand, english.

You won't goad me into doing this all for you by hurling insults, as I never reward bad behaviour Of course, had you said, please would you explain as I don't understand them, then I would have helped.

Last edited by formula; Mar 28th 2012 at 10:41 am.
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Old Mar 28th 2012, 10:42 am
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Default Re: Theresa May wants minimum income of £25,700; £49,000 if you have 2 kids

Originally Posted by englishguygoinghome View Post
Having lived there for many years, I found the Bavarians (southern Germany) to be very friendly to the Brits. The immigration (without a job, staying with my Girlfriend in student dorms) was a doddle and has become easier as was the marriage licence. And once there we could go back to the UK as often as we liked (could even have settled in the UK wihtout too much pain)
Thanks for the info! I would consider Germany too (or any of the Germanic countries). I don't HAVE to return to the UK specifically. I have no true family there and few friends anyway. "home" could be a number of EU countries where generally, I've realised that the UK has far more in common with culturally than the US, which will never be home to me.

I was very interested in Sweden, but Germany would be a good option too and a country where I'm sure my wife wouldn't have too much trouble adjusting to.

I need to save my pennies and visit again. Haven't been to Germany in 15 years.
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Old Mar 28th 2012, 10:52 am
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Default Re: Theresa May wants minimum income of £25,700; £49,000 if you have 2 kids

Originally Posted by just_jenn View Post
I'd say I really hope they'll consider regional weighting but that seems too logical for these morons.
They would have to give benefits at legal weighting too then. Don't put ideas in their head.
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Old Mar 28th 2012, 1:01 pm
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Default Re: Theresa May wants minimum income of £25,700; £49,000 if you have 2 kids

Originally Posted by formula View Post
Why don't you just take the time to read the visa catagories yourself; they are written in easy to understand, english.

You won't goad me into doing this all for you by hurling insults, as I never reward bad behaviour Of course, had you said, please would you explain as I don't understand them, then I would have helped.
It's got nothing to do with me not understanding them, and I also haven't been "hurling insults". What this is about is you backing up what you suggest with information, rather than vague references.

It's a pretty reasonable request, and would indicate whether or not your post about other categories is credible. I asked you to specify the categories you referred to, and indicate the relevant requirements and restrictions as it might be helpful to other people reading this thread. However you seem to be unwilling to stand by what you said, and choose to be difficult - who has the bad behaviour?

Personally I don't care about other categories, as my non-EEA wife has been granted ILE - I'm attempting to get this information that you refer to on the thread so it might be discussed and possibly help other people. Do we take it that you don't wish to help anyone?
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Old Mar 28th 2012, 1:51 pm
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Default Re: Theresa May wants minimum income of £25,700; £49,000 if you have 2 kids

Originally Posted by englishguygoinghome View Post
Having lived there for many years, I found the Bavarians (southern Germany) to be very friendly to the Brits. The immigration (without a job, staying with my Girlfriend in student dorms) was a doddle and has become easier as was the marriage licence. And once there we could go back to the UK as often as we liked (could even have settled in the UK wihtout too much pain)

I agree with you on that. I lived and worked in Regenburg a few years ago and had a wonderful time there. Very friendly people, I enjoyed the sightseeing and gorgeous old cathedrals. I have made couple of good friends there. But UK from my experience is also very friendly. The key is part of the country you visit and that goes for any country. Tschuss
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Old Apr 5th 2012, 8:11 pm
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Thumbs down Re: Theresa May wants minimum income of £25,700; £49,000 if you have 2 kids

I am FURIOUS about this. I am a British citizen with two British children (dual nationals with US, like me), and I'm basically being told that I am not allowed to bring my family to live in my homeland because I have not been lucky enough to secure a profitable career while in the Sates (I'm a journalist - used to work for the Telegraph - ha, the irony). My husband is a "skilled worker" (paramedic) so I am hoping that will help when we try and come back later this year, but I am really, really, really angry that because the government hasn't been able to "deal" with its perceived problem of an influx of Pakistani and Indian families I am now going to be "punished". There is no godly way a paramedic and journalist are going to earn GBP50K in the UK, we can't even earn $50K in the US. Sorry. Rant over.
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Old Apr 5th 2012, 10:32 pm
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Default Re: Theresa May wants minimum income of £25,700; £49,000 if you have 2 kids

I agree the proposal is ridiculous. I suggest writing to your MP, i.e. the MP for the area you last lived in, in the UK.
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Old Apr 6th 2012, 12:26 am
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Default Re: Theresa May wants minimum income of £25,700; £49,000 if you have 2 kids

Originally Posted by jp2e View Post
I am FURIOUS about this. I am a British citizen with two British children (dual nationals with US, like me), and I'm basically being told that I am not allowed to bring my family to live in my homeland because I have not been lucky enough to secure a profitable career while in the Sates (I'm a journalist - used to work for the Telegraph - ha, the irony). My husband is a "skilled worker" (paramedic) so I am hoping that will help when we try and come back later this year, but I am really, really, really angry that because the government hasn't been able to "deal" with its perceived problem of an influx of Pakistani and Indian families I am now going to be "punished". There is no godly way a paramedic and journalist are going to earn GBP50K in the UK, we can't even earn $50K in the US. Sorry. Rant over.
I know, it's horrifying, I just got my usc husband and three children to agree to move back when this new proposal comes out. I hear a big door slamming in my face...
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Old Apr 6th 2012, 1:55 am
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Default Re: Theresa May wants minimum income of £25,700; £49,000 if you have 2 kids

Apply now. As long as the application gets in before the rules change you're fine. A simple statement of intent on your part is sufficient as long as you are willing to risk the delay of an appeal.
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