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British citizen living abroad? Non-EEA spouse? This may affect you!

British citizen living abroad? Non-EEA spouse? This may affect you!

Old Mar 26th 2012, 1:53 am
  #16  
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Default Re: Theresa May wants minimum income of £25,700; £49,000 if you have 2 kids

Originally Posted by robin1234 View Post
As someone hoping to return to the UK as a retiree, I can see several complications. As you mention, dunroving, hopefully homeownership will be factored in. Then, what about guaranteed income in the future.
+1 I plan to retire to the UK on an income considerably lower that May sees as appropriate. If I was still married to my US ex-wife I'd be effectively barred from returning home.
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Old Mar 26th 2012, 3:24 am
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Default Re: Theresa May wants minimum income of £25,700; £49,000 if you have 2 kids

I think there will be exceptions for retirees ,pensions assets saving etc will be taken into account ,these rules are being put into place to stop the wrong people coming in ie marriages of conveniance and people who really will not have the ability to support themselves.
Also I do believe the final figure of earnings will end up being a lot lower,so I would not panic yet
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Old Mar 26th 2012, 3:24 am
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Default Re: Theresa May wants minimum income of £25,700; £49,000 if you have 2 kids

I'm seriously considering returning to Britain with my Canadian wife and son, but reading this I see the door slamming in my face. I've still got lots of research to do mind, it's early days yet, and this isn't a done deal, but it seems ominous.
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Old Mar 26th 2012, 3:41 am
  #19  
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Default Re: Theresa May wants minimum income of £25,700; £49,000 if you have 2 kids

Originally Posted by brissybee View Post
Aussie husband is playing this down to me... says it won't apply to us as he'll be earning enough to support himself (I'm the British citizen, but not working, so wouldn't meet the income requirement to bring him back.) I hope he's right. (And hope he can get a job. Auditing.)

As for the children aspect, I'm assuming this extra income is only meant to be required of people bringing non-UK citizen children into the UK?

My child (will be an adult by then) is Aussie born but has a UK passport, so as a British citizen, the extra income required shouldn't be a concern, should it?
I'm so glad we decided to move when we did. The problem seems to be that the public is willing to lump UK Citizens and permanent residents into one basket - suggesting that the view is a lot of the UK citizens affected aren't repatriating expats but people who got a passport so they could bring others in.

At the risk of causing this thread to degenerate into another flame-the-EU (please, please try and resist!), there is another option for those of us who are expats going home. You have the right to move to any other EU country with your family (try Dublin if you don't speak any other languages) and either work there, look for a job (you can also look in the UK at the same time) or commute to the UK. Once you are settled in the EU you have the right to move to the UK with your family. Best of all - the visas are free and guaranteed if you do this!
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Old Mar 26th 2012, 3:58 am
  #20  
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Default Re: Theresa May wants minimum income of £25,700; £49,000 if you have 2 kids

Originally Posted by bigals View Post
I think there will be exceptions for retirees ,pensions assets saving etc will be taken into account ,these rules are being put into place to stop the wrong people coming in ie marriages of conveniance and people who really will not have the ability to support themselves.
Also I do believe the final figure of earnings will end up being a lot lower,so I would not panic yet
I think that's a bit complacent, to be honest.

If there was a focus on marriages of convenience, the first thing would be to exclude anyone married before a certain date. Couples who had already lived in the UK - the spouse not having taken citizenship - before leaving and returning would be subject to these rules too and that would be silly if it was just to discourage sham marriages.

As for the income levels, this figure is actually at the higher end of the scale from what's been discussed previously; It's going in the opposite direction.

It reminds me of the Habitual Residence Test legislation that was brought in back in the 1990s. Designed to stop benefits tourism, most of the people not accepted as resident in the UK in the first couple of years of the new rules were actually Brits returning to live there. They messed up then and it looks like more of the same.

Another daft thing is that a spouse not meeting the income rquirement could return on their own and claim full benefits. But if their spouse had an income and came with them, they would need far less in benefits, or even none at all. Yet these rules would exclude them. That's potty.

It's just ill thought out knee jerkist nonsense.
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Old Mar 26th 2012, 4:25 am
  #21  
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Default Re: Theresa May wants minimum income of £25,700; £49,000 if you have 2 kids

Originally Posted by englishguygoinghome View Post
....there is another option for those of us who are expats going home. You have the right to move to any other EU country with your family (try Dublin if you don't speak any other languages) and either work there, look for a job (you can also look in the UK at the same time) or commute to the UK. Once you are settled in the EU you have the right to move to the UK with your family. Best of all - the visas are free and guaranteed if you do this!
I've seen mention of this before.

What a rigmarole to go through to go home, though.

It also shows how potty it would be that you can't get to your own country but you can be welcomed into a different one.

And then there's the human rights aspect again. An EU country will accept you. I'd have expected EU laws would mean that if one member state would take you, they all would. But if not there's still the idea that your own country is treating you worse than a different EU country.
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Old Mar 26th 2012, 6:49 am
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Default Re: Theresa May wants minimum income of £25,700; £49,000 if you have 2 kids

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
I've seen mention of this before.

What a rigmarole to go through to go home, though.

It also shows how potty it would be that you can't get to your own country but you can be welcomed into a different one.

And then there's the human rights aspect again. An EU country will accept you. I'd have expected EU laws would mean that if one member state would take you, they all would. But if not there's still the idea that your own country is treating you worse than a different EU country.
It does seem outrageous that a British born citizen might be in a position where they can't afford to take their long-term spouse to live back home.
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Old Mar 26th 2012, 2:53 pm
  #23  
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Default Re: Theresa May wants minimum income of £25,700; £49,000 if you have 2 kids

The government had already pledged to stop foreign nationals being a burden on the UK tax payer. So to take your points in order.

Originally Posted by dunroving View Post
I think the point is whether the amounts in question are really necessary to demonstrate that you can support yourself, not the general principle of demonstrating a minimum income. Is £50k really necessary to support a wife and two children, for example?
A wife and two children on less than about 46K, would mean that they can claim welfare for all the family through child related welfare payments as soon as they enter the UK, if only one parent worked. If both parents' worked, than the tapering would mean they would get more welfare payments to cover 70% of their childcare. Plus there is also the education and healthcare all 4 would want.

Originally Posted by dunroving View Post
Plus, we are talking about UK citizens wishing to repatriate, not random foreigners.
UK citizens can always come back to the UK.

Originally Posted by dunroving View Post
The UK seems quite willing to support millions of current citizens/residents who have no desire to work, for a lifetime, who AFAIK could marry a European spouse without needing permission.
The "no desire to work" lot, are getting a big kick up the [email protected] Some have already had them, several more large kicks coming this year and even more the year after. The able bodied and fit to work, are enraged at being asked to work more than 16 hours per week between both parents, to keep their child/ren and they plan to march on London (on a Monday of course, as they are all free then).

No permission is need to marry a foreigner, EEA or otherwise. The EEA citizens have the treaty right of free movement. Although it is quite interesting watching all the rumblings from the western EU countries, with Sarkozy now coming right out with it and saying that free movement of workers should be stopped and that we should just keep the free trade movements.


Originally Posted by dunroving View Post
These things aren't always as simple as they first appear.
They certainly aren't.

Last edited by formula; Mar 26th 2012 at 2:56 pm.
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Old Mar 26th 2012, 3:03 pm
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Default Re: Theresa May wants minimum income of £25,700; £49,000 if you have 2 kids

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
I am unsure legally how this will work in practice. I would have thought a United Kingdom citizen has the right to marry and bring into the country a person of their choice as long as the relationship can be proved not to be one of convenience. In other words a bonafide marriage. As I understand it is a Human Right. If came into law surely could be contested in European Court?
One of the solicitors said that Human Rights does not allow you to choose what country you live in.

Plus Cameron has already gathered support to amend the human rights act, when the UK take over for their 6(?) months in charge. France and Sweden already calling for majors changes to EU law too which all basically points to the fact that western EU countries want to patrol their own borders again.

As I said before, the UK government are already making plans to halt immigration if the Euro collapes. I'm not sure what they are planning to do as the only way they can halt EEA migration to the UK is to exit the EU, or get on board with other western EU countries and amend EU law to stop free worker movement.

Last edited by formula; Mar 26th 2012 at 3:16 pm.
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Old Mar 26th 2012, 3:21 pm
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Default Re: Theresa May wants minimum income of £25,700; £49,000 if you have 2 kids

Originally Posted by formula View Post
A wife and two children on less than about 46K, would mean that they can claim welfare for all the family through child related welfare payments as soon as they enter the UK,
While at the other end of the scale (as we've already discussed) there will be childless couples with an income and/or capital that means no actual need for support but will still not meet the income rule.

UK citizens can always come back to the UK.
If they're willing to leave their loved ones behind.





Originally Posted by formula View Post
One of the solicotors said that Human Rights does not allow you to choose what country you live in.
One.

Plus Cameron has already gathered support to amend the human rights act, when the UK take over for their 6(?) months in charge. France an Sweden already calling for majors changes to EU law too which all basically points to the fact that western EU countires want to patrol their own borders again.
Do you think it will be such a huge change as removing the right to family life?

There have been examples of convicted criminals having human rights decisions in their favour regarding family life. Illegal immigrants have been allowed to stay in the UK because being deported would infringe their human right to family life.

So let's stop Brits from having their family life. In Britain. Preposterous.
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Old Mar 26th 2012, 3:24 pm
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Default Re: Theresa May wants minimum income of £25,700; £49,000 if you have 2 kids

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post

So let's stop Brits from having their family life. In Britain. Preposterous.
I agree. To think that I would be barred on financial grounds from returning to the UK with my wife after ten years of marriage and 2 (half british) kids should I want to is outragous.

Its bad enough that she would have to jump hoops in order to work in the UK.
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Old Mar 26th 2012, 3:33 pm
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Default Re: Theresa May wants minimum income of £25,700; £49,000 if you have 2 kids

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
Do you think it will be such a huge change as removing the right to family life?
I think the solicitor might be correct when he said you can't use Article 8 to decide where you want to live. On other forums, people have posted that in their own appeals, the judges ruled against them and said their right to a family life was not being abused, as they could still have their 'family life' in another country.
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Old Mar 26th 2012, 3:36 pm
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Default Re: Theresa May wants minimum income of £25,700; £49,000 if you have 2 kids

Originally Posted by iaink View Post
with my wife after ten years of marriage and 2 (half british) kids should I want to is outragous.
Your children would be full British.
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Old Mar 26th 2012, 3:43 pm
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Default Re: Theresa May wants minimum income of £25,700; £49,000 if you have 2 kids

Originally Posted by bigals View Post
Also I do believe the final figure of earnings will end up being a lot lower,so I would not panic yet
This government does have a history in immigration matters, of putting up a high bar in theory and then lowering it in practice. Then most people think, "well that wasn't so bad".

This "leaked" document had much higher figures than I thought they would ask for. The figure had to rise, there is no question about that, but these latest figures are high.
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Old Mar 26th 2012, 3:44 pm
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Default Re: Theresa May wants minimum income of £25,700; £49,000 if you have 2 kids

Originally Posted by formula View Post
Your children would be full British.
You dont say, but they are full Cdn too hence my "half british" description

What is proposed here would mean in practice my kids and I could come live in the UK, but Id have to leave the wife behind unless I could arrange a good job from thousands of miles away. That sounds like wantonly splitting up families to me.

You would have to admit that ten years and 2 kids together could be considered pretty inconvenient for a marriage of convenience

Fortunately for me I cant see any circumstances that would have me want to return to the UK as Im lucky that my brothers are still there to watch out for my Dad as he gets older, but I can imagine many others not in such a fortunate situation who may want to return for reasons other than a nice cushy job waiting for them.
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