BritInSwitzerland

Hi,
I have been trawling the 'net for answers on this one, but still haven't got a conclusive answer.

I am a British Citizen by Registration with a Danish wife, working (contracting) in Switzerland, and we are about to have a baby. The question is, will there be any issues with the baby getting a British passport? I already know he/she will not be eligible for a Swiss one, although a joint Brit/Danish would be ideal. I believe no issues on the Danish side, but the Brit side is not so clear-cut.

My circumstances:
Myself:
· Born in Kenya in 1972 and was at the time registered as a “British Subject - Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies” (as per British Nationality Act 1971).

· After British Immigration Act 1981 came into force on 1st Jan 1983, I became a “British Overseas Citizen”.

· Family emigrated to UK in 1984.

· Subsequently registered as “British Citizen by Registration” (1992); I believe this is also known as “British Citizen – Otherwise than by descent”.

· Worked in London for 17+ years..

· Since August 2012, I have been working in Switzerland, but on 6-month L-permits, across 2 contracts so far (one extended). As such, since my permit to live in Switzerland is tied to work, we still maintain our household in the UK, since this stint could potentially end at very short notice.

My parents:
Father: born in British Colony (Kenya), currently “British Citizen by Registration”.
Mother: Indian passport, but when we came to UK, she acquired British Citizenship by Naturalization (in 1998).

My wife:
Born in Denmark, but living and working most of her life in the UK (parents and her family are also UK based). Since October/November 2012, when I established a residence here in Switzerland, she is living, but not working, with me in Switzerland.


From what I can gather, the children of a 'British citizen by descent' is not automatically eligible for British citizenship - and I am not that, however I read here (http://britishexpats.com/wiki/Britis...hip_by_Descent) that this group includes the 'by registration' folks under certain circumstances..?

I would truly appreciate any advice on this.

Is there a way to get an 'official answer'? I tried emailing the British Consulate in Berne, but answering this appears not to be part of their services (they wont tell you specifically, they just ignore the email). You can't speak to them by telephone except to book an appointment. I can make a trip there for an appointment if that is the best bet (although there is no guarantee of an answer even then). Are there specialist lawyers who can advise?

cheers,
BritInSwitzerland

BritInParis

Does your registration certificate state which section of the BNA 1981 you were registered under?

Englishmum

I think this applies to you and your child (you will need to get a definitive answer from the UK govt officials) :

The relevant section re; your new baby is under the subheading on Page 2 -

"Children Born On or After 1 January 1983 To British Overseas Citizens"

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...279871/bn2.pdf

It seems that your baby will not be eligible for British Citizenship unless he or she is born in the UK or a British overseas territory.

Your child won't be stateless however, if he/she is eligible for Danish citizenship.

Maybe you and your wife should consider applying for full British citizenship?

Btw; where are you in Switzerland? I am in Zug

BritInParis

The OP states he became a British Citizen by registration in 1992 so that no longer applies to him. Depending on which section he was registered under he would be British otherwise than by descent or by descent. The former confers British citizenship by descent on his child at birth; the latter would require him to register the child as a British citizen either now under S.3(2) or after three years residence in the UK under S.3(5). If the child is a Danish citizen and has EU citizenship it would be preferable to register later under S.3(5) as this will give the child British citizenship otherwise than by descent rather than by descent under S.3(2).

If it's feasible to do so then giving birth in the UK would also guarantee the baby would be British otherwise than by descent automatically from birth.

If his Danish wife becomes a British Citizen then she will forfeit her Danish citizenship.

JAJ

If the family were British Overseas citizens who emigrated to the U.K. then the registration as a British citizen is probably under section 4(2) of the British Nationality Act. This gives British citizenship otherwise than by descent.

However, in order to confirm anything it would need to be clear what the certificate says.

The wife may no longer be eligible for British citizenship if she has moved to Switzerland. And the child should normally also be a Danish citizen. Denmark restricts dual citizenship (which may change soon) but does usually allow it when it is acquired automatically at birth.

BritInSwitzerland

Hi BritInParis - thanks for your replies. Not sure I understand your question exactly, but at the bottom, it says: registered "Section 4(2) British Citizen", dated 1992. Is that meaningful?

cheers,
BritInSwitzerland.

BritInSwitzerland

Hi, we are in Thalwil, about 20 mins away. Well, I am definitely 'British Citizen by registration'.. Would not logically be by descent, as my Father was a 'British Overseas Citizen' (I believe) when I was born. As for the 'officials' - who are they, really? Should I be chasing the Embassy harder? Do I physically have to go there? I don't mind, i just need a clear answer from someone qualified to do so...

cheers,
BritInSwitzerland.

BritInSwitzerland

Spot on, JAJ, it is Section 4(2), which I now have to go and google as I have no idea what that implies. We are not after British citizenship for my wife; she is a Dane and proudly so. This is just about best options for the little one. Ideally we would want the kid to have dual citizenship, he or she can decide depending on cultural affinity when it is necessary to do so (or remain dual if allowed).

cheers,
BritInSwitzerland.

BritInParis

As JAJ mentioned, Section 4(2) registration makes you a British citizen otherwise than by descent so your child will automatically be a British citizen by descent at birth if born outside the UK. You only need to apply for their British passport.

https://www.gov.uk/overseas-passports

As your claim to British citizenship is a little unusual you may be well advised to register the birth with the British Embassy in Berne. This isn't mandatory but will give you a British-style birth certificate stating both your and your child's claim to British citizenship. Copies will then be available to order from the GRO in the UK for a small fee at any time in the future.

https://www.gov.uk/register-a-birth

In both cases you will need to supply, as a minimum, your child's Swiss multilingual birth certificate (including English) and your original Certificate of Registration as a British Citizen.

If you register the birth in Berne first then you only need to supply the consular birth certificate for the passport application. This might be preferable if you are nervous about sending valuable, hard-to-replace documents by international post.

BritInSwitzerland

Thanks, BritInParis, that is good to hear. Do you know where can I pursue an 'official' answer? To avoid any ambiguity? I guess this comment stems from a lack of knowledge of all the different options, and the propensity of governments to move the goalposts these days (as Switzerland have just done).

Cheers,
BritInSwitzerland.

JAJ

Refers to section 4(2) of the British Nationality Act 1981. Which was (and is) a simplified process for those holding a subsidiary form of British nationality, including British Overseas citizenship, to become British citizens following admission for settlement to the United Kingdom.



Under current Danish law, your child (as a dual Danish/other citizen born outside Denmark) would lose Danish citizenship at age 22 unless an application for retention is made. This application for retention does NOT require that foreign citizenship is renounced.
http://canada.um.dk/en/travel-and-re...h-citizenship/

Child could also lose Danish citizenship if mother ceases to be Danish, but you say that's not all that likely. That said - Denmark may legislate to allow dual citizenship in the near future and if that's the case, your wife could become British (or Swiss) and keep Danish citizenship.

So your child should be dual British/Danish, however he or she will need to understand the requirements to retain Danish citizenship beyond early adulthood.

I would concur with the other person who said that obtaining a British consular birth certificate for your child would be strongly recommended.

BritInSwitzerland

Thanks, that matches what we know about the Danish side of things.

BritInParis

Until the child is born there is no way to confirm this 'officially'. Then your options are to register the birth and/or obtain a British passport. The government doesn't provide a personal nationality consultation service. However the legistration is publicly available for you to read.

JAJ

There isn't any ambiguity in this situation. A person who has acquired British citizenship by registration under section 4(2) of the British Nationality Act is a British citizen otherwise than by descent. If the Certificate of Registration says Section 4(2) then that's sufficient proof.

The way it works is that the law, primarily Section 14 of the British Nationality Act 1981, defines who is a British citizen by descent. Anyone not so defined is automatically a British citizen otherwise than by descent. The current version of the Act can be found at: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/61

The Home Office Nationality Instructions are also a good reference.

A British Overseas citizen who becomes a British citizen does not in general lose British Overseas citizenship, and has a domestic form of dual citizenship. Although it's somewhat theoretical as there are no rights given to a British Overseas citizen that are not also given to a British citizen.

BritInSwitzerland

Thanks to all who replied, it certainly is a weight off our minds. Now to get the little one health insurance...
Cheers!