rickster000

Jimbob,

Thanks for that. Very useful. I will check out the FB group.

Ta.

BritInParis

Using an Article 10 card for a visit of up to three months for a UK visa national is fine. If you're attempting the SS route then you should apply for an EEA Family Permit before leaving. If you don't qualify for the SS route whilst you're living elsewhere in the EU then you certainly won't qualify after having left the EU country in question and moved to the UK.

rickster000

That's a good point to bear in mind.

Thanks.

jonwyness

I am British and recently moved from the UK to Gibraltar. My fiancee is Ukrainian living in Spain. She has a 6 month visa to visit Gibraltar where we will marry next week. My question is whether she will need a visa to come to the UK with me once we are married. Presumably the Art 10 residency card does not apply as I am in Gibraltar (not a non-UK EU country)? The guard at the border said she can go to the UK with her visa (even though we applied to go to Gibraltar and she was not required to do biometrics), and he also said that once we are married she can visit the UK with me without a visa or any other card/document other than our marriage certificate. I fear the position is not that clear or straightforward. Can anyone help please?

BritInParis

Is it your intention to move to the UK together or just visit whilst continuing to live in Gibraltar?

jonwyness

Just visit the UK. We will live in Gibraltar.

BritInParis

And the Article 10 card was issued by Spain? Under the McCarthy ruling then you and your fiancee could visit the UK using her Article 10 residence card but if she moves to Gibraltar then that no longer will be valid.

Those with UK issued BRPs do not need a separate visa for Gibraltar. I'm doubtful whether the same is true for the reverse.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...a-in-gibraltar

jonwyness

Thank you very much. Very helpful. Once we are married we will both apply for residence cards in Gibraltar. Gibraltar is not the same as the UK, but as an overseas British territory, it is not the same as other non-UK EU countries such as Spain and I wonder if the Art 10 endorsement can be added to my wife's Gib residence card. If not, it seems that us living in Gibraltar rather than Spain puts us at a disadvantage when wanting to visit the UK.

BritInParis

I think that would be the case but with Brexit the disadvantage would only be temporary. Probably worth investigating when arranging your wife's Gibraltar residence permit.

jonwyness

Hi, thank you again. So you think the Article 10 family member endorsement only applies in EU countries other than the UK (obviously) and Gibraltar (because I am not exercising my free movement rights there)?

BritInParis

That would be my surmise. AFAIK Gibraltar is included in the UK’s EU membership. I could be wrong but I haven’t seen anything to contradict it so far.

jonwyness

Interesting update. My wife now has her Civilian Registration Card and her Permit of Residence for Gibraltar. The latter say, under STATUS/TYPE - Family Member of an EEA National. She is Ukrainian and I am a British Citizen/passport holder. The big question is whether this is seen as an Article 10 residence card and would be accepted for her to visit the UK with me - visit, not stay or work there. It might seem an obvious question but I had previously been told by UK immigration that I am not exercising my EU free movement rights living in gib, a UK overseas territory and so an Art 10 card would not be relevant. I spoke to Gatwick border control and they said they would accept the card, as would Heathrow. They said the only question would be the airlines but said they could check with UK border control if they were unsure. I tried to find someone at BA to tell me their policy as we will fly with them in July. They said I "should get a letter from a local embassy saying it was ok". I said there were not embassies in Gibraltar. The woman went away for 5 mins and came back and said it would be ok if my Ukrainian wife had residency in Gib (which I don't think is correct at all and just shows the confusion around this whole mess that the UK is making of their immigration policy). If we lived in Spain, we would have less of an issue as there would be no doubt I was there and exercising my eu rights. If Gib is considered by the UK as part of the UK, not a n other EU country, then the fact she has residency in Gib should mean she is able to visit the UK but I know that logic does not apply.
We don't want to be turned away when at the departure gate when someone decides her Residence card is not sufficient. The last time I called the UK immigration advice line it cost me £18 and the woman knew less than I had gleaned from the website and could only direct me back to the website for any info I needed! I suppose an EEA Family Permit is the answer but we are not looking to settle in the UK and applying for it will mean she loses her passport for a month and won't be able to get back into Gib if she crosses the border into Spain.

BritInParis

Interesting. I've been having a think about this and logically (ha) in order for Gibraltar to issue your wife a residence card based on her marriage to you under EEA freedom of movement rules, Gibraltar cannot be your member state and therefore your wife could use the same card to enter the UK as your family member as per this. An EEA Family Permit would obviously remain the safest option.

jonwyness

But an EEA family permit requires the British person to have been living in an EU country other than the UK (and if UK considers Gib not to be a different EU country to the UK) then I don't see how the EEA route would work of the Art 10 argument fails for the same reason. An old thread but this chap couldn't get an EEA family permit because he had been working in Gib, not Spain - https://www.immigrationboards.com/ee...116568-40.html

BritInParis

My point is that if Gibraltar and the UK were considered the same EEA member state then your wife couldn't have been issued a Article 10 card by Gibraltar any more than the UK could have issued her one. The implication therefore being that if Gibraltar views the UK as a separate EEA member state for the purposes of freedom of movement then presumably the UK would need to reciprocate. That thread you link to predates the McCarthy ruling.

European court gives UK visa direction - BBC News