Gregsrequest

,........................

BritinParis , hello , I now have all my documents required for my passport application .
As you have recommended attaching a covering letter , with reference to the above Acts , would you kindly help me with whatever you think is advisable and helpful to add in a document of this nature ? Essentially a template of wording of what I need to put together for this application . I believe that, that letter will serve as motivation for a successful result and I would hate to mess it up .

​​​​​​Should I provide an email address to keep this information (template letter ) private ? Many ,many thanks and regards .

BritInParis

Something like this:

Dear Sir/Madam,

Please find enclosed my application for a British passport. This is my first application for a British passport. My paternal grandfather was born in the United Kingdom while my father and I were born in South Africa. My father was a Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent at the time of my birth which would ordinarily mean I have no automatic claim to citizenship however I was born in a foreign country at a time where the UK exercised extraterritorial jurisdiction, i.e. South Africa in 1965.

Therefore it is my understanding that I was born a Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies under S.5(1)(a) of the British Nationality Act 1948, that I gained Right of Abode in the United Kingdom under S.2(1)(b)(ii) of the Immigration Act 1971 and thus I became a British Citizen on 1 January 1983 under S.11(1) of the British Nationality Act 1981.

I look forward to your response.

Yours sincerely,
Greg [surname]

Gregsrequest

Dear BritinParis , thank you very much , that is excellent and appreciated ,I hope to send everything in within the next week .
regards.

Gregsrequest

Greetings BiP ,

I have received a reply from HMPO albeit confusing , the first letter I received said that I do have a claim to British Citizenship ,the second letter I received seems to confirm this , but it contains material inaccuracies and seemed rushed , which may have not helped in my favour , please help.


My father was born in South Africa in 1945 to a UK father who was recruited in Crown service ,he has the following status according to prior information requests ; BNA 1981 section 11(1), BNA 1948 section 12(2) , immigration act 1971 section 2(1)(b) (I) .
My father was born a British subject in 1945 and later became a British Citizen of the UK and Colonies on 1/1/1949 due to his father and familial connection to the UK .

They say ;" Your father was born in South Africa after independence 01/01/1949 .as his father was born in the UK your father obtained his status through through his father under section 5(1) of the British Nationality Act 1948 your father would be British Subject of the United Kingdom and Colonies(BSUKC) by descent his Right of Abode will also be by descent .As you were also born abroad under the British Nationality Act you will be a British Citizen by descent unfortunately , under British Law descent claims cannot be passed down to a further generation born abroad .

A person born outside the UK can only claim British Citizenship ,if at the time of their birth - either parent is a British Citizen otherwise than by descent - such as birth in the UK or registration or naturalisation in the UK as a British Citizen ".

I'm of the opinion that my father was born "otherwise than by descent " in terms of ( I think , section 14 (2) of the 1981 BNA)

I was therefore born a British Citizen by descent .

When I phoned the passport office and told them about the inaccuracies of my dads date of birth and his means to British Citizen Status via the Acts previously mentioned ,which were contained in their letter , they enquired from me whether I had submitted proof of my grandads Crown service and recruitment in the UK, I said I hadn't as my application was based on ETJ , of which , no mention was made of by the Office of the ETJ or its viability as a valid claim ,neither was there any explanation regarding ETJ as not being a possible route , it was mentioned by one of the immigration companies that it may be a test case since the Romein case earlier this year ? Can this be clarified somehow ?

They have retained my fee and have requested that I re submit my application with the proof of my grandfathers military service abroad as this would be "helpful ."

I'm not sure how to proceed , either ask for a re evaluation , the process of which I'm really not sure or pay the fee a second time with the new support military documents which could take many many weeks or months in the meanwhile the alternative of Ancestry visa application (which I am opposed to ) fees will double by the 2nd of December this year if legislatively approved especially in terms of the NHS fee, looms very near.
I remain hopeful and positive , I look forward to your help once again ,thank you .

BritInParis

Can you provide a scan of both letters? (With personal details deleted as appropriate)

Gregsrequest

Thanks for responding swiftly , I will attempt to scan the two letters in a few hours time from another device .Thank you once again.

Gregsrequest

BiP , good morning , just something to ponder whilst I get the relevant documents scanned and sent here for you .

If my father obtained the status 'otherwise than by descent' at birth due to my grandads war time service abroad and the birth of my father abroad ( in a place of such service being a British Dominion prior to independence in 1949 ) by 'otherwise than by descent' according to section 14(2) BNA 1981 states ;
A person born outside the United Kingdom BEFORE commencement (1981) is NOT a British Citizen "by descent" by virtue of subsection (1)(b)or (e) if his father was at the time of his birth SERVING OUTSIDE The United Kingdom - (a) in service of a description mentioned in subsection (3) , his recruitment for the service in question having taken place in the United Kingdom or .....and it continues to (b).

It stands to reason that such' otherwise than by descent 'status should prevail at all times in my father's case and not be lost ? (this is the crucial question) and therefore transmits by descent to me . Under BNA 1981 14(2) my father is categorised as 'otherwise than by descent' and not " by descent " .

I understand the dichotomy of the situation at hand , on the one hand by descent is required for ETJ and on the other otherwise by descent is required for automatic transmission of British Citizenship .
I know it has been stated numerous times that the first time otherwise than by descent was mentioned in British Citizenship litrature was in the 1981 BNA, well that's true BUT it is also made retrospective in operation as BEFORE commencement of the 1981 bna, as stated in section 14(2) 1981 bna which applies here. Just asking asking ?
Thank you ,I look forward to your thoughts .

Gregsrequest

BiP herewith scanned docs for your perusal and comment. thank you

Gregsrequest

BiP , herewith an in depth assertion of my British citizenship .

I assert that my British Citizenship is by an operation of law .My Citizenship is based on the following core items .

My paternal grandfather was a natural - born British subject .
My grandfather was recruited to the Royal Ait Force in the UK.
My grandfather was in Crown Service in The Union Of South Africa in 1939 to 1945 .
My grandparents were lawfully married in The Union of South Africa , a Dominion of The United Kingdom under His Majesty's extra territorial Jurisdiction ,were His Majesty exersized Jurisdiction over British Subjects .
My father was born in the Union of South Africa in 1945 thus a natural born British Subject .
My father acquired Citizenship of The United Kingdom and Colonies (CUKC) by operation of law in 1949 .
My parents were lawfully married in Cape Town in 01/1965.
I was born in a former British controlled foreign country where His Majesty exersized Jurisdiction over British Subjects in 1965.
My father had not renounced CUCK status prior to the commencement of the British Nationality Act 1981 (BNA1981).
I had not renounced CUKC status prior to the commencement of the BNA 1981.

IN DETAIL

PRINCIPAL ANNALYSIS :

PATERNAL GRANDPARENTS ;

Grandfather - natural born British Subject s1 (1)(a) British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act 1914 .
Grandmother - natural born British Subject s1 (1)(a) British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act 1914 and British Citizenship at commencement of 1948 BNA (1948).
By virtue of birth within His Majesty's Dominions father is a natural born British subject s1(1)(a) British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act 1914.
In 1947 mother becomes aa natural born British subject s1(1)(a) British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act 1914.
On the 1st January 1949 father automatically becomes a Citizen of The United Kingdom and Colonies (CUKC) s12(2) British Nationality Act 1948 (BNA 1948).
On 2 September 1949 father automatically becomes a South African citizen of the Union of South Africa .
Father is a dual CUKC and Union of South Africa citizen at this point as well as remaining a British Subject s1 BNA 1948.
On 01/ 1965 Father and mother lawfully marry in Caoe Town..
I was born on 06/1965 in the now new Republic of South Africa a formerly British controlled territory ,where His Majesty exersized Jurisdiction over its subjects ,which at all times from my fathers birth His Majesty exersized extra - territorial Jurisdiction over its British subjects until 1962 - Common Wealth Relations Act 69 of 1962. Where after the Republic of South Africa becomes a foreign country .

I become a British Citizen (CUKC) by descent at birth ( s 5.1 (a) BNA 1948 ).
I do not renounce CUKC status prior to 01/01/1983 .
I become a British Citizen on 91/01/1983 s 11(1) British Nationality Act 1981 ( BNA 1981)

SECONDARY ANNALYSIS ;

Grandfather - a natural born British Subject s 1(a) British Nationality and Status Act 1914.
Grandmother - a natural born British Subject s (1) (a) British Nationality and Aliens Act 1914.Becomes a British Citizen of United Kingdom and Colonies at commencement of the 1948 BNA (BNA 1948) .
Grandparents married lawfully in East London 07/03/1942.

Grandfather recruited into Royal Air force in 1937 in the United Kingdom
Grandfather posted overseas to The Union of South Africa ,Graham's town Royal Air force Navigational Training Squadron .Returns to the United Kingdom after seven years of military commitment to the United Kingdom and Crown .

Father born a British subject in the Union of South Africa 01/1945. Father automatically becomes a CUKC on 01/01/1949 .
Mother born British Subject in The Union Of South Africa in 1947.
My parents are lawfully married in Cape Town in 1965 , Republic of South Africa .

MYSELF

Born in 1965 in The Republic of South Africa , a foreign country where His Majesty had previously exersized, by lawful means , extra territorial jurisdiction over British subjects .

ANNALYSIS

Paternal grandfather and grandmother are both natural born British Subjects s 1 (1)(a) British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act 1914.
By virtue of Birth within His Majesty's Dominions father is a natural born British subject s1 (1)a British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act of 1914 .
By virtue of birth within His Majesty's Dominion father is a natural born British subject s 1(1)(a) British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act 1914.
On 1st January 1949 father automatically becomes a Citizen of The United Kingdom and Colonies (CUKC) s 12 (2) British Nationality Act 1948 (BNA 1948) .
On 2 and September 1949 father automatically also becomes a Citizen of the Union of South Africa
On 26 March 1947 mother is born a British Subject s1 (1)(a) British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act 1914.
Father is a dual CUKC and The Union of South Africa Citizen at this point ,as well as remaining a British Subject .
In 1965 father and mother are lawfully married in Cape Town , The Republic of South Africa, a former British Dominion and at this point a foreign country where His Majesty lawfully ,
exersized extra territorial Jurisdiction .The Republic leaves the Commonwealth in 1962 ,which is now recognised as a foreign country formerly with ETJ.
I became a CUKC by descent at birth by operation of law s 5.1(a) BNA 1981.
I do not renounce my British Citizen Status prior to 1/1/1983.
Father becomes a Citizen otherwise than by descent by operation of law on 1/1/1983 s 11.(1) and s 14(2) (a) - Crown Service .
I became a British Citizen (by descent ) on 1/1/1983 (s 11.(1) British Nationality Act 1981) .
Due to my father being a British Citizen otherwise than by descent .

Gregsrequest

Greetings BiP , I did not check all my spelling and see an error on one of the dates 91 should be 01 .I have submitted this to you merely as an annalysis I what I think and for your comment. Thank you .

BritInParis

You need to drop this idea that your grandfather’s Crown service would be useful to you. It would only be useful if you were born after 1 January 1983. Your claim is based on the ETJ the UK exercised over South Africa at the time of your birth.

The letter that you received from HMPO is appalling. It doesn’t make grammatical sense let alone legal sense. I would lodge a complaint and ask that your application be reviewed by a manager.

Gregsrequest

Good morning , many would agree that the contents of the reply from the Passport Office , both grammatically and legally speaking are appalling and do not do justice to the HMPO , many too would agree that a complaint be lodged and the contents of the application be reviewed in a manner where due diligence is exersized , precedence be evaluated , as I'm sure there have been many succsessful applications previously around the issue of ETJ and a review done ,followed by a correction .The letters received all suggest I am a British Citizen by descent but are wholly opaque and make no sense what so ever.
Thank you .

I shall return later with the technical questions of the HOW TO proceed in this matter , how to get a review with a new supporting letter that is drafted above here and whether a new application needs to be made afresh . The obvious injustice of having to pay once again , will also be a priority question .
Thank you once again for your invaluable insight.

Gregsrequest

Hi BiP , following the line of communication with Hmpo we are at this position ;

Grandfathers service records (which I have now received) and as requested by hmpo in their latest letter are evidence of my father being otherwise than by descent as confirmed by hmpo letter .
Things to note:
My father was born before Independence 1949/01/01 within a Crown Dominion to a father who was a British subject , which makes him "otherwise than by descent" as opposed to by descent .
Otherwise than by descent of a parent gives British Nationality by descent to children born outside of the UK .
If ,as they confirm my father was otherwise than by descent , then surely irrespective of the age of children ( therefore no age restriction or time limit to apply for such status of by descent ......as far as I know ) I would then be by descent .
They have also confirmed my list of evidence and documents as well as my grandfathers service records which appear sufficient to prove my British Nationality , albeit that they will do their own enquiries and necessary checks .
In my new passport application I would like to put forward the two legal arguments as discussed previously, in order not to abandon the section 5 / 1948 bna regarding ETJ as potential backup route .

If otherwise than by descent is their preference over ETJ and it is succsessful ,well that would be fine.


Last issue .....once a citizen has gained the status " otherwise than by descent ,then surely that status remains for life ?

Unless there is renunciation ect.


Do you see any potential snags or red herrings so far ?
I look forward to your reply ,thank you , regards Gregsrequest

Gregsrequest

Dear BritinParis ,

After a lengthy delay i now have some feedback for you to read and observe and offer some advise please .

The attached documents (in no special chronological sequence ) refers .

There is some interesting reading and interpretation of the Acts , especially 5.1(a) of the 1948 Act.

I am not sure whether I am in agreement with this as the act clearly states .....His Majesty then has or had jurisdiction over British subjects ... the meaning of which i interpret as ....at the time of my birth or before my birth ....which then means that there was jurisdiction in my case .


Please help , thank you .

BritInParis

I’m glad to see that the Complaints Resolution Team (eventually) corrected the previous erroneous claims about your claim to British citizenship via your grandfather’s Crown service. They also, by the end, correctly identified your claim to British citizenship through S.5(1)a BNA 1948. You need to point out that South Africa was a foreign country but one where HM did have jurisdiction over British subjects for the purposes of S.5(1)a BNA 1948 from 31 May 1962 until 1 January 1983 and therefore at the time of your birth in 1965.