Another potential family break-up thanks to the new rules...
Mar 13th 2013, 9:14 pm
#46
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: Back in the UK!
Posts: 2,404
Re: Another potential family break-up thanks to the new rules...
What?? Relatively few people try the Surinder Singh route via a second EU country? 
Immigrationboards.com is full of people moving to Europe in order to go the Singh route. Look on their "EEA Route Applications" board.
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewforum.php?f=45
There's a whole thread on "EEA FAQs - Common Questions - Read before posting" with useful info & links.
http://www.immigrationboards.com/vie...e970422b0ac131
Of course, no one can tell anyone exactly what to do to enter each & every EU country. The rules & regs will be different for each one, and there are 27 nations (or maybe more?) in the EU!! So each person must do their own research on how to enter whatever EU country they choose.
There are many, many folks going this route, it's just there aren't all that many posting on BE about doing it. Not yet anyway.
Immigrationboards.com is full of people moving to Europe in order to go the Singh route. Look on their "EEA Route Applications" board. http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewforum.php?f=45
There's a whole thread on "EEA FAQs - Common Questions - Read before posting" with useful info & links.
http://www.immigrationboards.com/vie...e970422b0ac131
Of course, no one can tell anyone exactly what to do to enter each & every EU country. The rules & regs will be different for each one, and there are 27 nations (or maybe more?) in the EU!! So each person must do their own research on how to enter whatever EU country they choose.
There are many, many folks going this route, it's just there aren't all that many posting on BE about doing it. Not yet anyway.
I was thinking we should pick an east european country that has emptied itself of migrants to the UK. Should be easy to get cheap accommodation
Last edited by Perth; Mar 13th 2013 at 9:17 pm.
Mar 13th 2013, 9:20 pm
#47
Under blue skies
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: East Anglia->New England
Posts: 3,624
Re: Another potential family break-up thanks to the new rules...
Ah OK, got it. 
I know several peeps who are seriously considering the Singh route. They're looking into likely EU countries & the regulations for moving there. The one thing holding some back is the difficulty getting jobs in much of Europe. The unemployment numbers are not good.
I know several peeps who are seriously considering the Singh route. They're looking into likely EU countries & the regulations for moving there. The one thing holding some back is the difficulty getting jobs in much of Europe. The unemployment numbers are not good.
Mar 13th 2013, 9:25 pm
#48
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Joined: Nov 2012
Location: Back in the UK!
Posts: 2,404
Re: Another potential family break-up thanks to the new rules...
Ah OK, got it.
I know several peeps who are seriously considering the Singh route. They're looking into likely EU countries & the regulations for moving there. The one thing holding some back is the difficulty getting jobs in much of Europe. The unemployment numbers are not good.
I know several peeps who are seriously considering the Singh route. They're looking into likely EU countries & the regulations for moving there. The one thing holding some back is the difficulty getting jobs in much of Europe. The unemployment numbers are not good.
Mar 13th 2013, 10:09 pm
#49
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Joined: Jul 2003
Location: Finally moving!
Posts: 1,236
Re: Another potential family break-up thanks to the new rules...
Each country has its own rules, they are different, each from the other... And you must comply with them, not skirt around them. See
https://eumovement.wordpress.com/eu-countries/
https://eumovement.wordpress.com/eu-countries/
Mar 13th 2013, 10:33 pm
#50
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Joined: Nov 2012
Location: Back in the UK!
Posts: 2,404
Re: Another potential family break-up thanks to the new rules...
Each country has its own rules, they are different, each from the other... And you must comply with them, not skirt around them. See
https://eumovement.wordpress.com/eu-countries/
https://eumovement.wordpress.com/eu-countries/
Mar 14th 2013, 9:27 am
#51
Under blue skies
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: East Anglia->New England
Posts: 3,624
Re: Another potential family break-up thanks to the new rules...
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eu...family-permit/
However, a non-EEA family member of a British citizen living abroad can apply for an EEA family permit to join the British citizen on their return to the UK if:
*the British citizen has been living in an EEA member state as a worker or self-employed person; and
*the [non-EEA] family member, if they are the British citizen's spouse or civil partner, has been living together with the British citizen in the EEA country.
*the British citizen has been living in an EEA member state as a worker or self-employed person; and
*the [non-EEA] family member, if they are the British citizen's spouse or civil partner, has been living together with the British citizen in the EEA country.
Mar 14th 2013, 12:15 pm
#52
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 837
Re: Another potential family break-up thanks to the new rules...
OK - I'll have a go at this with the example of Germany. Incidentally the process has become simpler over the past years as Germany has implemented the EU rules and court rulings to remove some of the steps we followed The EU citizen also had to get a residence permit until recently leading to a catch-22 situation where you needed the permit to complete step 2 below but needed to complete step 2 to get the permit).
1) Apply for an entry permit to visit for up to 3 months.
2) EU person registers as self-employed (IT technician, cleaner, odd-jobs man, rickshaw driver, tourist guide etc.)
http://www.muenchen.de/rathaus/home_...Deregistration
(I could only find the German page: http://www.muenchen.de/rathaus/Stadt...e-Staaten.html - it's the top section that's relevant)
6) Go to the UK and decide to stay. Apply for the biometric residence permit via the UKBA site.
1) Apply for an entry permit to visit for up to 3 months.
Note: This is not needed if you are American, New Zealander, Australian etc. (from South Africa that would be via this link: http://www.southafrica.diplo.de/Vert...ses__Visa.html which also has a pdf version of the application form)
Documents needed:
- Copy of your spouse's passport
- Marriage certificate
- SA residence permit
- letter from your spouse that you are still married
- photo
- no fee
- takes "up to 3 weeks, occasionally longer"
I'd put "considering relocating to Germany - research visit to see whether we want to" as the reason when answering Q21
I suppose you could go for the more onerous http://www.southafrica.diplo.de/Vert...ification.html)
but that's not needed for the next steps
Once you get to Germany and decide you do actually want to stay and where you want to stay: (Based upon living in Munich - full set of details in German, I've given English links below but some of them aren't as detailed as the German ones: http://www.muenchen.de/rathaus/Stadt...gsreferat.html. Get google to translate the German pages for you) Documents needed:
- Copy of your spouse's passport
- Marriage certificate
- SA residence permit
- letter from your spouse that you are still married
- photo
- no fee
- takes "up to 3 weeks, occasionally longer"
I'd put "considering relocating to Germany - research visit to see whether we want to" as the reason when answering Q21
I suppose you could go for the more onerous http://www.southafrica.diplo.de/Vert...ification.html)
but that's not needed for the next steps
2) EU person registers as self-employed (IT technician, cleaner, odd-jobs man, rickshaw driver, tourist guide etc.)
http://www.muenchen.de/rathaus/home_...censing-Office
you need:
- passport
- filled in application form
- 45Euros
- you get a certificate immediately
In theory you could instead go to the job center (Arbeitsamt) and register there (you wouldn’t get dole money but would get a certificate you could use for steps 4 & 5). Legally job-seekers are considered to be economically active for freedom of movement purposes but I can image the UKBA would reject you and you’d have to go through the long process of beating them in the European courts before you got into the UK.
3) EU citizen registers address (personally or by post) with the authorities within 1 week of arrival: you need:
- passport
- filled in application form
- 45Euros
- you get a certificate immediately
In theory you could instead go to the job center (Arbeitsamt) and register there (you wouldn’t get dole money but would get a certificate you could use for steps 4 & 5). Legally job-seekers are considered to be economically active for freedom of movement purposes but I can image the UKBA would reject you and you’d have to go through the long process of beating them in the European courts before you got into the UK.
http://www.muenchen.de/rathaus/home_...Deregistration
- filled in form
- EU citizen's passport (if applying in person, not needed if applying by post)
- no fee
- proof of registration is given immediately
- Practical tip for where to live - in most major German cities student hall places have a long waiting list so you will usually find students subletting their rooms because they have already found somewhere else while they were on the waiting list.
4) Make an appointment (by email) and get a residency card for the non-EU spouse:- EU citizen's passport (if applying in person, not needed if applying by post)
- no fee
- proof of registration is given immediately
- Practical tip for where to live - in most major German cities student hall places have a long waiting list so you will usually find students subletting their rooms because they have already found somewhere else while they were on the waiting list.
(I could only find the German page: http://www.muenchen.de/rathaus/Stadt...e-Staaten.html - it's the top section that's relevant)
- passport
- photo
- marriage certificate (with notarised German translation or international marriage certificate)
- it's not listed but I would take the paperwork from steps 2 & 3 along with me too
- 22,80EUR
- not sure how long this takes - it used to be a piece of paper which you got immediately (after a few hours wait in Munich, a few minutes in a little village) but is now a biometric permit so needs to be created centrally
5) Send all 3 bits of paper along with this form to get an EEA family permit for the UK (using the online form at the visa4uk site we all know and love). This could be within 1 month of arriving if you get your act together and get the residence permit back quickly.- photo
- marriage certificate (with notarised German translation or international marriage certificate)
- it's not listed but I would take the paperwork from steps 2 & 3 along with me too
- 22,80EUR
- not sure how long this takes - it used to be a piece of paper which you got immediately (after a few hours wait in Munich, a few minutes in a little village) but is now a biometric permit so needs to be created centrally
6) Go to the UK and decide to stay. Apply for the biometric residence permit via the UKBA site.
Mar 14th 2013, 3:12 pm
#53
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: Finally moving!
Posts: 1,236
Re: Another potential family break-up thanks to the new rules...
Explaining that you are willing to make time for interviews and willing to give up self-employment immediately if/when you are offered suitable employment in one of your fields.
Typically countries will have no problem with this, it double guarantees to them that you will never get dole money (not that you would have anyway).
Self sufficiency is invariably required by the host EU nation, the UK does not care. Again it is one of those requirements you could easily skirt around but must not. Spain especially requires proof of medical insurance or other adequate medical arrangements for the non-EU spouse for residencia.
Mar 14th 2013, 5:07 pm
#54
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: Back in the UK!
Posts: 2,404
Re: Another potential family break-up thanks to the new rules...
OK - I'll have a go at this with the example of Germany. Incidentally the process has become simpler over the past years as Germany has implemented the EU rules and court rulings to remove some of the steps we followed The EU citizen also had to get a residence permit until recently leading to a catch-22 situation where you needed the permit to complete step 2 below but needed to complete step 2 to get the permit).
1) Apply for an entry permit to visit for up to 3 months.
2) EU person registers as self-employed (IT technician, cleaner, odd-jobs man, rickshaw driver, tourist guide etc.)
http://www.muenchen.de/rathaus/home_...Deregistration
(I could only find the German page: http://www.muenchen.de/rathaus/Stadt...e-Staaten.html - it's the top section that's relevant)
6) Go to the UK and decide to stay. Apply for the biometric residence permit via the UKBA site.
1) Apply for an entry permit to visit for up to 3 months.
Note: This is not needed if you are American, New Zealander, Australian etc. (from South Africa that would be via this link: http://www.southafrica.diplo.de/Vert...ses__Visa.html which also has a pdf version of the application form)
Documents needed:
- Copy of your spouse's passport
- Marriage certificate
- SA residence permit
- letter from your spouse that you are still married
- photo
- no fee
- takes "up to 3 weeks, occasionally longer"
I'd put "considering relocating to Germany - research visit to see whether we want to" as the reason when answering Q21
I suppose you could go for the more onerous http://www.southafrica.diplo.de/Vert...ification.html)
but that's not needed for the next steps
Once you get to Germany and decide you do actually want to stay and where you want to stay: (Based upon living in Munich - full set of details in German, I've given English links below but some of them aren't as detailed as the German ones: http://www.muenchen.de/rathaus/Stadt...gsreferat.html. Get google to translate the German pages for you) Documents needed:
- Copy of your spouse's passport
- Marriage certificate
- SA residence permit
- letter from your spouse that you are still married
- photo
- no fee
- takes "up to 3 weeks, occasionally longer"
I'd put "considering relocating to Germany - research visit to see whether we want to" as the reason when answering Q21
I suppose you could go for the more onerous http://www.southafrica.diplo.de/Vert...ification.html)
but that's not needed for the next steps
2) EU person registers as self-employed (IT technician, cleaner, odd-jobs man, rickshaw driver, tourist guide etc.)
http://www.muenchen.de/rathaus/home_...censing-Office
you need:
- passport
- filled in application form
- 45Euros
- you get a certificate immediately
In theory you could instead go to the job center (Arbeitsamt) and register there (you wouldn’t get dole money but would get a certificate you could use for steps 4 & 5). Legally job-seekers are considered to be economically active for freedom of movement purposes but I can image the UKBA would reject you and you’d have to go through the long process of beating them in the European courts before you got into the UK.
3) EU citizen registers address (personally or by post) with the authorities within 1 week of arrival: you need:
- passport
- filled in application form
- 45Euros
- you get a certificate immediately
In theory you could instead go to the job center (Arbeitsamt) and register there (you wouldn’t get dole money but would get a certificate you could use for steps 4 & 5). Legally job-seekers are considered to be economically active for freedom of movement purposes but I can image the UKBA would reject you and you’d have to go through the long process of beating them in the European courts before you got into the UK.
http://www.muenchen.de/rathaus/home_...Deregistration
- filled in form
- EU citizen's passport (if applying in person, not needed if applying by post)
- no fee
- proof of registration is given immediately
- Practical tip for where to live - in most major German cities student hall places have a long waiting list so you will usually find students subletting their rooms because they have already found somewhere else while they were on the waiting list.
4) Make an appointment (by email) and get a residency card for the non-EU spouse:- EU citizen's passport (if applying in person, not needed if applying by post)
- no fee
- proof of registration is given immediately
- Practical tip for where to live - in most major German cities student hall places have a long waiting list so you will usually find students subletting their rooms because they have already found somewhere else while they were on the waiting list.
(I could only find the German page: http://www.muenchen.de/rathaus/Stadt...e-Staaten.html - it's the top section that's relevant)
- passport
- photo
- marriage certificate (with notarised German translation or international marriage certificate)
- it's not listed but I would take the paperwork from steps 2 & 3 along with me too
- 22,80EUR
- not sure how long this takes - it used to be a piece of paper which you got immediately (after a few hours wait in Munich, a few minutes in a little village) but is now a biometric permit so needs to be created centrally
5) Send all 3 bits of paper along with this form to get an EEA family permit for the UK (using the online form at the visa4uk site we all know and love). This could be within 1 month of arriving if you get your act together and get the residence permit back quickly.- photo
- marriage certificate (with notarised German translation or international marriage certificate)
- it's not listed but I would take the paperwork from steps 2 & 3 along with me too
- 22,80EUR
- not sure how long this takes - it used to be a piece of paper which you got immediately (after a few hours wait in Munich, a few minutes in a little village) but is now a biometric permit so needs to be created centrally
6) Go to the UK and decide to stay. Apply for the biometric residence permit via the UKBA site.
Ironically, my mother was born in Germany and so I am considered German by descent. However, I have never followed through with it as apparently I would have to give up my British citizenship!
Mar 14th 2013, 5:40 pm
#55
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 837
Re: Another potential family break-up thanks to the new rules...
- with any other nationality if you obtain both at birth and your German citizenship is by blood-line
- with any other EU/EEA Nationality (incl Swiss) for any reason including naturalisation
- with other nationalities until you are 18 if your German citizenship is due to place of birth, at which point you have 3 years to choose which to keep
Mar 14th 2013, 6:12 pm
#56
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: Back in the UK!
Posts: 2,404
Re: Another potential family break-up thanks to the new rules...
We were there for 4-5 years but that was a while back. It was the first place I lived as an expat.
The've changed the rules significantly a few years ago so it's worth checking up on that. As I understand it you can have dual citizenship:
- with any other nationality if you obtain both at birth and your German citizenship is by blood-line
- with any other EU/EEA Nationality (incl Swiss) for any reason including naturalisation
- with other nationalities until you are 18 if your German citizenship is due to place of birth, at which point you have 3 years to choose which to keep
The've changed the rules significantly a few years ago so it's worth checking up on that. As I understand it you can have dual citizenship:
- with any other nationality if you obtain both at birth and your German citizenship is by blood-line
- with any other EU/EEA Nationality (incl Swiss) for any reason including naturalisation
- with other nationalities until you are 18 if your German citizenship is due to place of birth, at which point you have 3 years to choose which to keep
Mar 14th 2013, 6:43 pm
#57
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2013
Location: Mexico City
Posts: 41
Re: Another potential family break-up thanks to the new rules...
Well, here's an update on my situation. My wife's documents & passport are on their way back. The latest email from Bogota states that a decision has been made and includes a pdf document explaining what to do now that she has a new UK visa. Pretty much says that it was accepted Guess we're just lucky, but feel sorry for others in the same boat who may have been refused.
Guess we're just lucky, but feel sorry for others in the same boat who may have been refused.
Mar 14th 2013, 7:27 pm
#58
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 185
Re: Another potential family break-up thanks to the new rules...
Well, here's an update on my situation. My wife's documents & passport are on their way back. The latest email from Bogota states that a decision has been made and includes a pdf document explaining what to do now that she has a new UK visa. Pretty much says that it was accepted Guess we're just lucky, but feel sorry for others in the same boat who may have been refused.
Guess we're just lucky, but feel sorry for others in the same boat who may have been refused.
Mar 14th 2013, 8:50 pm
#59
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: Back in the UK!
Posts: 2,404
Re: Another potential family break-up thanks to the new rules...
Well, here's an update on my situation. My wife's documents & passport are on their way back. The latest email from Bogota states that a decision has been made and includes a pdf document explaining what to do now that she has a new UK visa. Pretty much says that it was accepted Guess we're just lucky, but feel sorry for others in the same boat who may have been refused.
Guess we're just lucky, but feel sorry for others in the same boat who may have been refused. CONGRATULATIONS
Mar 14th 2013, 10:30 pm
#60
BE Forum Addict
Joined: May 2012
Location: South Bucks
Posts: 1,654
Re: Another potential family break-up thanks to the new rules...
Well, here's an update on my situation. My wife's documents & passport are on their way back. The latest email from Bogota states that a decision has been made and includes a pdf document explaining what to do now that she has a new UK visa. Pretty much says that it was accepted Guess we're just lucky, but feel sorry for others in the same boat who may have been refused.
Guess we're just lucky, but feel sorry for others in the same boat who may have been refused.
Last edited by feelbritish; Mar 14th 2013 at 10:43 pm. Reason: found answer to my question