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Gordon Barlow May 17th 2019 1:46 am

Nationalities in Cayman
 
Some interesting statistics of Cayman's workforce, that might come as a surprise to some members of this forum.
https://www.caymancompass.com/2019/0...cation=picture

uk_grenada May 17th 2019 3:54 pm

Re: Nationalities in Cayman
 
I think it looks about what i would expect. However cross pollinate it with salaries and i suspect a different picture might emerge. Where are the banking and IT people coming from? Are the caribbean workers on the lower incomes?

I had a conversation about the same sort of thing in Dubai. There, there are 3 types of workers with vastly different incomes and interestingly vastly different legal rights. Americans and europeans, then asian experts then asian and african manual workers. An asian doung the same job as a european might get paid 25% if the europeans salary.

If a european loses their job, their visa expires a month later and they are supposed to get out, or apply for a temp tourist visa. A manual labourer will be taken to the airport and put on the next flight out by his employer as thats what the law demands for them.

uk_grenada May 17th 2019 3:55 pm

Re: Nationalities in Cayman
 
What do you think would surprise the locals?

ABCR May 17th 2019 4:00 pm

Re: Nationalities in Cayman
 
Very surprised there are more Indians here than Americans or Canadians!

uk_grenada May 17th 2019 5:03 pm

Re: Nationalities in Cayman
 
Im betting you can employ 3 very smart Indian financial analysts for the cost of one european/murican.

Of course many may just be labourers/construction workers.

Gordon Barlow May 18th 2019 3:10 am

Re: Nationalities in Cayman
 
The first thing to point out - before we get to analysing the figures - is that Work Permit holders are not the same as expats. In 2003, at the insistence of the British FCO, many foreigners were granted Caymanian Status (citizenship, in effect), and all those thousands of grantees suddenly disappeared from the Work Permit requirement. They remained "expats" in the eyes of the Caymanians and of some of the local laws. We're not considered "real" Caymanians. Most of them were Jamaicans, and the next most were probably British.

Another problem with judging Cayman's population statistics is that the children of Caymanians "by right" inherit that right. As mixed marriages (i.e. between Caymanians and non-Caymanians) have become more and more common over the years, so has the number of "bloodline" Caymanians. When we first came here in 1978, there were about two dozen "native Caymanian" surnames in the phone book, now there are hundreds, and one can't tell who is Caymanian and who isn't, except by asking.

Gordon Barlow May 18th 2019 3:28 am

Re: Nationalities in Cayman
 

Originally Posted by uk_grenada (Post 12685117)
I'm betting you can employ 3 very smart Indian financial analysts for the cost of one european/murican. Of course many may just be labourers/construction workers.

I'm out of the picture a bit these days, but I don't know that there are more than a few Indian financial types around - but however many there are, I would be surprised if they got paid much less than any other nationality. They might get less when they first arrive here, but if so they would quickly get snapped up by other employers. Labourers etc get paid low wages, wherever they come from. Most of our unskilled workers are Jamaicans or Latinos, and Indians and Filipinos, and they all get shamefully exploited by employers who know there are no jobs at all for them back home. That's capitalism for you.

The Indian doctors and nurses at our Indian-owned hospital are paid less than the doctors (of whatever nationality) at our other two hospitals - again for natural capitalistic reasons. But the young Indian nurse at my doctor's office would be paid the same as her Caymanian, Jamaican and English predecessors, I think.

As a general statement, skilled workers get the same whatever their nationalities, and so do unskilled. European unskilled workers are few, because they wouldn't work for Cayman wages - not because they're discriminated against. And the cashiers in shops get paid a flat hourly rate regardless of origins.

uk_grenada May 18th 2019 10:11 am

Re: Nationalities in Cayman
 
Thats an interesting comparison with the arabs who definitely do pay with regard to the wages in the persons home country regardless of their value in dubai. There its 100% indentured labour too.

Jamesy5008 May 18th 2019 12:02 pm

Re: Nationalities in Cayman
 

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow (Post 12685273)
The first thing to point out - before we get to analysing the figures - is that Work Permit holders are not the same as expats. In 2003, at the insistence of the British FCO, many foreigners were granted Caymanian Status (citizenship, in effect), and all those thousands of grantees suddenly disappeared from the Work Permit requirement. They remained "expats" in the eyes of the Caymanians and of some of the local laws. We're not considered "real" Caymanians. Most of them were Jamaicans, and the next most were probably British.

Another problem with judging Cayman's population statistics is that the children of Caymanians "by right" inherit that right. As mixed marriages (i.e. between Caymanians and non-Caymanians) have become more and more common over the years, so has the number of "bloodline" Caymanians. When we first came here in 1978, there were about two dozen "native Caymanian" surnames in the phone book, now there are hundreds, and one can't tell who is Caymanian and who isn't, except by asking.

Does that explain why a fair proportion of them are 'in the huff' with expats because some definitely are. I'm sure I read that McKeeva Bush had a hand in it too? Correct me Gordon?


Gordon Barlow May 18th 2019 3:20 pm

Re: Nationalities in Cayman
 

Originally Posted by Jamesy5008 (Post 12685423)
Does that explain why a fair proportion of them are 'in the huff' with expats because some definitely are. I'm sure I read that McKeeva Bush had a hand in it too? Correct me Gordon?

Well, it's always been like that, Jamesy. There has always been an underclass in Cayman that hankers for The Good Ol' Days of smoke-pots and wompers, no modernising and no foreigners! I don't think there has ever been an MLA elected who didn't do some expat-bashing during his or her campaign.

McKeeva was the Islands' political leader in 2003, when Britain demanded that the backlog of Status applicants be eliminated. He did that, and at the same time allowed a lot of random names to be gazetted as new Caymanians. Except for his loyal followers in West Bay, the hardcore anti-expats have never forgiven him for that, which is how he fell out of power.

Gordon Barlow May 18th 2019 3:39 pm

Re: Nationalities in Cayman
 

Originally Posted by uk_grenada (Post 12685375)
That's an interesting comparison with the arabs who definitely do pay with regard to the wages in the persons home country regardless of their value in dubai. There its 100% indentured labour too.

The indentured-labour law - many Jamaicans call it "near slavery" - is disgracefully cruel to domestic workers especially. I have publicly spoken against it for thirty years or so, on and off, but to no avail. It is responsible for the corruption of our immigration system, as (unscrupulous) employers have stolen money from their ill-paid domestics with impunity. Back when I was managing the Chamber of Commerce, and later when writing my newspaper columns, I had quite a struggle to stay on the Island. The local Immigration authorities once even sent a chauffeur-driven bully-boy to my house threatening to pull my Permanent Residence. Fun times!

Jamesy5008 May 19th 2019 12:40 pm

Re: Nationalities in Cayman
 

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow (Post 12685489)
Well, it's always been like that, Jamesy. There has always been an underclass in Cayman that hankers for The Good Ol' Days of smoke-pots and wompers, no modernising and no foreigners! I don't think there has ever been an MLA elected who didn't do some expat-bashing during his or her campaign.

McKeeva was the Islands' political leader in 2003, when Britain demanded that the backlog of Status applicants be eliminated. He did that, and at the same time allowed a lot of random names to be gazetted as new Caymanians. Except for his loyal followers in West Bay, the hardcore anti-expats have never forgiven him for that, which is how he fell out of power.

Thanks for that Gordon. I had to google wompers! So effectively Bush was left with no option but to 'welcome' a whole load of 'new' Caymanians? Hmm....can't see how that is his fault.

Gordon Barlow May 19th 2019 6:29 pm

Re: Nationalities in Cayman
 

Originally Posted by Jamesy5008 (Post 12685811)
Thanks for that Gordon. I had to google wompers! So effectively Bush was left with no option but to 'welcome' a whole load of 'new' Caymanians? Hmm....can't see how that is his fault.

Well, what happened was this:- There were several hundred names on the backlog list, which was being cleared at about ten a year; that's when the FCO ordered the backlog to be cleared. The Exco of the day (the Cabinet), headed by McKeeva, took the opportunity to give Status to some of their friends - Ken Dart among them - and for the purpose of obfuscation [there's another one to Google for you!] added a whole bunch of random individuals that brought the number up to three thousand or so - plus all their children still in Jamaica or wherever. It was the random names (some of whom were in prison!) that got the anti-expats frothing at the mouth and cost McKeeva the next election. It took some years before all the children got their Status, and the total number is reckoned (!) to have been six thousand or so.

All those naturalisations bumped the number of Work Permit down significantly, and have screwed up our official statistics ever since!

Jamesy5008 May 20th 2019 3:02 pm

Re: Nationalities in Cayman
 
lol:.....It's ok.....I knew what obfuscate meant! So the hardcore West Bay vote is what keeps him from tumbling?

Gordon Barlow May 20th 2019 4:08 pm

Re: Nationalities in Cayman
 

Originally Posted by Jamesy5008 (Post 12686341)
So the hardcore West Bay vote is what keeps him from tumbling?

Yes it is. Three of the four West Bay seats are his, but none elsewhere in the Islands. He's always looked after his constituents very well. He was our first Premier, if you remember.


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