Gordon Barlow

Yes, indeed. But the warnings about that have only been quite recent. Also quite recent were warnings that pregnant women shouldn't be vaccinated. Why were those warnings not publicised at the very beginning? Did they not know? What else haven't they told us? Am I expecting too much? The word "thalidomide" springs to mind; is that unfair?

uk_grenada

Couple of things, firstly, immunity of 95% is 2-4 weeks after the 2nd dose, 75% after 4 weeks after the 1st dose, but though not perfect, it will also make illness less severe, you are less likely to die.

Secondly, its your choice, but un-immunised you are a risk to others so some activities like taking a plane or bus or going to a hospital or dentist or care home may be denied you in a while, and also do consider, while you tak of potential harm it might do to you, the virus is also most definitely seeking to do you harm...

Gordon Barlow

Yes, fair enough (your first point). But the death rate seems to be pretty low for this Virus, overall. And one does read about things happening. Witness this report:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...tion-1.5856827
This victim had allergies, but the hospital gave her the vaccine anyway. That's what I mean when I say the medical authorities are still experimenting. I'm not opposed to the vaccine as such, but I intend to wait a while until they get a tad more experience. I'm content to not take busses or planes. Doctors and dentists: it's their personal choice whether they take me on without the vaccine, right?

Your second point, about being a risk to others... Well, the only people who would need to fear my presence would be others who were un-vaccinated. Right? All us un-vaxxies could sit in our buses and cafes and breathe on each other, while the vaxxed will have nothing to worry about****. Sounds good to me! What do you reckon?
**** assuming the vaccinations work, of course...

uk_grenada

Really you'll know with certainty very soon, the uk is ramping up to 2 million injections a week, thats 1 million people acquiing immunity a week, so it wont take long for induced herd immunity to occur. If the 2 million in the uk so far are an indication the uk will romp out of the exit gate of this pandemic fairly soon, and watch the us etc suffer for some years.

Jamesy5008

A wee glimpse into the current state of play after arriving back on Cayman last night. The timeline effectively was:

1. Covid PCR test at Edinburgh airport on Monday (72 hours before flight). Results same day!
2. Confirmation from TravelCayaman that we could come home with our negative PCR and authorisation to isolate at home.
3. Wednesday morning fly to London. PCR result WASN'T checked at that time. Overnight at Sofitel (very nice actually but confined to room)
4. Thursday check in at Heathrow where our PCR tests and right to travel both checked.
5. Fly back to Cayman where it was like zombie apocalypse as it was the first day of a negative test prior to flying here. Hazmat suited and booted (some staff) people checking passports, PCR test and right to travel docs. Had my passport checked 5 times whilst still in arrivals! Covid test as well. Given geo-locator wrist band and now at home for 15 days isolating at which point we get a further test. Negative and we're free, positive and we're stuck.

After being at home for a month and seeing the restrictions go to Stalag Luft III levels in the last few days, we are glad to be back. Yes, the PCR test and the whole hullabaloo of TravelCayman and at the airport is a pain but if that is what is required to allow us to go about our business as we currently are, then I feel it is worth it. And I'm no lover of governments. UK is a trainwreck at the moment with Doris Johnson being the complete buffoon that he is, Matt Hancock living up to his surname and Nicola Sturgeon damned if she does or doesn't.

I still remain unconvinced by the vaccine but shortly I believe it is get jagged or don't travel. One UK employer has already stated that his workforce will be vaccinated or lose their job!

Gordon Barlow

The latest bad news from Cayman:-
https://caymannewsservice.com/2021/0...vel-corridors/

Gordon Barlow

Glad you made it back, Jamesy! Just in time, it seems from the link I just posted here.

I think you're right in believing that vaccination will probably become compulsory or all-but. One supermarket executive told me he has no present intention of making a vaccination certificate compulsory for shopping in his store, but of course that intention may change. Alternatively - and more likely - he will one day require non-vaccinated shoppers to wear masks. That would be a shame, because masklessness is one of the most important ways of exhibiting our freedom, isn't it. And long may that freedom last!

uk_grenada

There are a series of interesting debates going on now about vaccination and immunity.

1, A big uk study has shown that having this potentially fatal bug with the risk of long term or even lifelong complications only gives 5-7 months of immunity, so people can get it multiple times, each occurance with its own risks.

2, Being immune doesnt mean you cant transmit the bug to someone else. Someone sneezes it at you. Clearly it might be on your hand and like a doorknob you can spread it. BUT ALSO it is breathed in, sits and multiplies in your nose and mucus membrane, it is probable but there is no evidence that immunity kills it there. You wont be infected yourself but you can transmit it in theory to others, especially if for example you have a cold also. However once herd immunity is established this risk drops, but is behind the calls to wear masks sanitise etc even after vaccination. It is likely this call will diminish in smarter countries as the populations are vaccinated, but we probably dont live in those countries so expect it to go on for a long time. Amusingly its also touted as a reason to continue revenue generation/testing before flying forever.

Gordon Barlow

So bring us up to date, Jamesy: are you back in circulation? I'd hate to think you're still locked away, and missing all the Super Bowl parties tonight!

uk_grenada

Another little update - there is now. study=proof that being vaccinated does prevent you passing it on, there are antibodies in snot [ok, on your sinus mucus] that do kill the bug. Standard disclaimer nothing is 100% - this is 75% after 1 dose of the astra zeneca vaccine.

Jamesy5008

Back in circulation and thankful for it. 15 days is plenty locked up. So celebrated it with a staycation at The Kimpton. I don't have the first idea about american football. It's a complete mystery to me. Scotland's thrashing of the Auld Enemy at Twickers is far more important. Alba Gu Brath!

I've also had my first part of the vaccination. The world is heading to 'no jab no fly'. And I've got plans for the next few years involving travel.

Gordon Barlow

Grenada... Has there been any change recently, in this situation? In my younger days, "immunity" meant for years, not just a few months. In fact, I seem to recall that "vaccination" meant "Immunity" - not just "well you can still catch the disease but it won't be as bad". When was that definition changed? I had the usual vaccinations - yellow fever, cholera, tetanus, smallpox, polio - but of those I think only tetanus had to be renewed and that was every ten years. So I'm not actually anti-vax, but I'm wary of the manner in which mutations are shrugged off so readily.

This coronvirus vaccine seems to be more of a palliative. What do you reckon?

uk_grenada

Good morning Gordon.

that a Covid virus only gives you a short period of immunity is not a surprise, there are existing coronavirus bugs that impact us, that we normally think of us being a cold.

when you receive an annual flu jab it is actually protecting you against three or four variants, and tbroad immunity only occurs after several years of taking protection against different variants. This particular bug is currently quite virulent but it is likely in the future that it will actually become less virulent but no less prevalent if that makes sense. The death rate as we know it’s only two or 3% so like flu it will kill the old and infirm like us? But it will not impact the general population greatly. However does that mean that you should take the vaccination against it that will be different every year for the rest of your life, the answer is probably. Here in Grenada the vaccination program is going full swing, with permanent installations in shopping malls probably for the next three months. In the UK we have now vaccinated over 22 million people, and there are zero deaths as a direct result of the vaccination. So I think you can be reassured that the actual inoculation isn’t going to hurt you but you can also be assured that the bug itself will be 2% likely to kill you and maybe another 10% likely to give you long-term issues. Of course your reaction to that is entirely your own decision but it looks as though people who are not inoculated will not be allowed to travel in the near future and may also be restricted In other ways depending upon what’s happening in your country. On the bright side it does appear that your country has decided that it doesn’t like tourists that much in the future especially those on cruise ships.

Yes the vaccine is a palliative to many - but one that is quite important to people like us as the alternative isn’t pleasant, after all without it you might be denied air or public travel, restaurants malls or even bars? And yes, this reaction is harsh and sometimes in-necessary but public opinion supports it, even in the PC U.K., the government doesn’t like it but the public dies and they vote.

Gordon Barlow

Grenada. Thank you for taking the time to type out a very satisfactory explanation for me. That was kind, and I appreciate it.

I think I'll take my chances for the time being, and wait till they've done a bit more experimentation. As you know, at the moment we're free to live the way God intended us to live - without masks and social-distancing and indeed any restrictions at all, pretty much. When our rulers abandon the quarantine regulations for returning residents, perhaps I will take fright and succumb to the vaccine. (Mentally, that is - not physically, I hope!) And if or when I want to travel, it may be essential to have a vaccine-passport.

We don't know yet when our border will be opened again. Certainly not for cruise-passengers in the near future - even the foreseeable future! The hotels are sweating blood, as you'd expect, and are pressuring the politicians to open up without further delay. But there is a general election here in April, and the pollies won't take any chances before then to risk our current way of life. After that - well, we'll see. There's not really all that much unemployment here, since many of the migrant workers were sent home, so we're not quite as desperate as some of our neighbours are to have the tourists swarming back.

Ah well, who knows? Thanks again for your words of advice. Cheers.

Gordon Barlow

Ah well... to adopt a catchy phrase from a quite different public-issue arena, "my body, my choice!" As I said, I'm not anti-vax in principle, but I'm damned if I'm going to be forced to take the shot until it's fully proven to be safe. Incidentally, I'm a little bit alarmed at the practice of injecting old people first. That intimates that we're more dispensable than younger people. I mean, they wouldn't - would they?