British Expats

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-   -   "Belongers" in BIOTs (https://britishexpats.com/forum/caribbean-121/belongers-biots-866479/)

scot47 Oct 12th 2015 8:53 am

"Belongers" in BIOTs
 
The complexity of the legal question of citizenship never ceases to amaze mehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belonger_statusThe Empire certainly created a tangled web for lawyers - and others !

BritInParis Oct 12th 2015 7:34 pm

Re: "Belongers" in BIOTs
 

Originally Posted by scot47 (Post 11770066)
The complexity of the legal question of citizenship never ceases to amaze mehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belonger_statusThe Empire certainly created a tangled web for lawyers - and others !

It allows for BOTCs to come and go from the UK as they please but not the other way round. Otherwise 65 million Brits would up sticks and move to the Caribbean tomorrow.

Pulaski Oct 12th 2015 7:40 pm

Re: "Belongers" in BIOTs
 

Originally Posted by BritInParis (Post 11770367)
It allows for BOTCs to come and go from the UK as they please but not the other way round. Otherwise 65 million Brits would up sticks and move to the Caribbean tomorrow.

I sincerely doubt that number, especially as it is more British citizens than actually live in the UK! :lol:

I suspect, all things considered, especially remoteness and poor infrastructure, including transport and hospitals, that those who would relocate to a Caribbean island, number only approximately 1% of your off-the-cuff estimate and that rather fewer people would relocate to the Caribbean that have relocated to Spain now that they are freely able to move there, and Spain has much better infrastructure, and is much closer to the UK than the Caribbean. IIRC about 1% of the British population live in Spain.

BritInParis Oct 12th 2015 8:12 pm

Re: "Belongers" in BIOTs
 

Originally Posted by Pulaski (Post 11770369)
I sincerely doubt that number, especially as it is more British citizens than actually live in the UK! :lol:

I suspect, all things considered, especially remoteness and poor infrastructure, including transport and hospitals, that those who would relocate to a Caribbean island, number only approximately 1% of your off-the-cuff estimate and that rather fewer people would relocate to the Caribbean that have relocated to Spain now that they are freely able to move there, and Spain has much better infrastructure, and is much closer to the UK than the Caribbean. IIRC about 1% of the British population live in Spain.

I was including all the expats as well ;)

But even taking 1% of the roughly 65 million British citizens worldwide is still 650,000 whilst the total population of all the BIOTS, not just the ones in the Caribbean, is only 350,000. Most of the islands' populations are no bigger than a UK market town.

Pulaski Oct 12th 2015 8:17 pm

Re: "Belongers" in BIOTs
 

Originally Posted by BritInParis (Post 11770385)
I was including all the expats as well ;)

But even taking 1% of the roughly 65 million British citizens worldwide is still 650,000 whilst the total population of all the BIOTS, not just the ones in the Caribbean, is only 350,000. Most of the islands' populations are no bigger than a UK market town.

On that I agree, 650,000 people trying to relocate to the BIOTs in the Caribbean would be a catastrophy, for several different reasons.

Gordon Barlow Oct 13th 2015 6:56 pm

Re: "Belongers" in BIOTs
 

Originally Posted by Pulaski (Post 11770369)
I sincerely doubt that number, especially as it is more British citizens than actually live in the UK!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom

Wikipedia is your friend, Pulaski!

Gordon Barlow Oct 13th 2015 7:02 pm

Re: "Belongers" in BIOTs
 

Originally Posted by BritInParis (Post 11770367)
It allows for BOTCs to come and go from the UK as they please but not the other way round.

Most of us BOTCs also have UK citizenship, these days. I think I'm right in saying that Britain requires us to be naturalised UK citizens before we can live there, and that BOT citizenship by itself is not enough. (They waited until Hong Kong was safely in the arms of China before opening the door to the rest of us.)

BritInParis Oct 13th 2015 9:29 pm

Re: "Belongers" in BIOTs
 

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow (Post 11771057)
Most of us BOTCs also have UK citizenship, these days. I think I'm right in saying that Britain requires us to be naturalised UK citizens before we can live there, and that BOT citizenship by itself is not enough. (They waited until Hong Kong was safely in the arms of China before opening the door to the rest of us.)

The British Overseas Territories Act 2002, as well as renaming the remaining 'British Dependent Territories' the 'British Overseas Territories', also automatically conferred full British citizenship on all BDTCs and as well the new BOTC status resulting in them hold the two citizenships concurrently.

The status held by Hong Kongers was BDTC until the Handover in 1997. 50,000 were given full British citizenship under the British Nationality Selection Scheme in the years leading up to the Handover. Others could registered as British National (Overseas) (BN(O)s) to allow them to continue to hold a British rather than Chinese passport although it didn't permit them to live in the UK without a visa.

Gordon Barlow Oct 14th 2015 4:32 am

Re: "Belongers" in BIOTs
 

Originally Posted by BritInParis (Post 11771148)
The British Overseas Territories Act 2002, as well as renaming the remaining 'British Dependent Territories' the 'British Overseas Territories', also automatically conferred full British citizenship on all BDTCs and as well the new BOTC status resulting in them hold the two citizenships concurrently.

Yes it did. But it did not automatically confer UK citizenship on persons who became BOT citizens after the act came into force. We had to become naturalised UK citizens in order to be allowed to take up residence in Britain.
http://www.gov.uk/government/uploads...erritories.pdf

Pulaski Oct 14th 2015 6:17 pm

Re: "Belongers" in BIOTs
 

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow (Post 11771054)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom

Wikipedia is your friend, Pulaski!

So is Google. :nod:

Scanning through a lot of Wikipedia data, it looks like approximately 57-58 million residents of the UK were born there, with 7million born elsewhere.

BritInParis Oct 14th 2015 6:28 pm

Re: "Belongers" in BIOTs
 

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow (Post 11771319)
Yes it did. But it did not automatically confer UK citizenship on persons who became BOT citizens after the act came into force. We had to become naturalised UK citizens in order to be allowed to take up residence in Britain.
http://www.gov.uk/government/uploads...erritories.pdf

Ah, I see what you mean. Yes, post-2002, naturalising as a BOTC does not automatically confer British citizenship. You can register as a British citizen but only after completing the same 5+1 years and ILR in the UK as anyone else excepting Crown service. Registration just means a slightly cheaper fee than nationalisation.

Gordon Barlow Oct 14th 2015 8:24 pm

Re: "Belongers" in BIOTs
 

Originally Posted by BritInParis (Post 11771917)
Yes, post-2002, naturalising as a BOTC does not automatically confer British citizenship. You can register as a British citizen but only after completing the same 5+1 years and ILR in the UK as anyone else excepting Crown service. Registration just means a slightly cheaper fee than nationalisation.

Hmm. I don't think I know what "registering as a British Citizen" is or involves. Here in Cayman, we were invited to apply for formal naturalisation as a UK citizen - which was automatically granted by dint of our BOT citizenship. We didn't have to live in Britain, and we never have lived there; but we can take up residence at any time. And we have full UK (EU) passports.

BritInParis Oct 14th 2015 10:32 pm

Re: "Belongers" in BIOTs
 

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow (Post 11772000)
Hmm. I don't think I know what "registering as a British Citizen" is or involves. Here in Cayman, we were invited to apply for formal naturalisation as a UK citizen - which was automatically granted by dint of our BOT citizenship. We didn't have to live in Britain, and we never have lived there; but we can take up residence at any time. And we have full UK (EU) passports.

From the document you posted:


The British Overseas Territories Act 2002 made the previously known “dependent” territories as British Overseas Territories. A further change took place on 21 May 2002. If a person was a British overseas territories citizen (except by virtue of a connection only with the Sovereign Base Areas of Akrotiri and Dhekelia), immediately before 21 May 2002, they automatically became a British citizen on that date. A person born on or after 21 May 2002 in a British overseas territory will be British otherwise than by descent at birth if born to a British citizen parent or person settled in the territory. A person born or after 21 May 2002 outside of a British Overseas territory will be a British citizen by descent if born to a British citizen able to transmit their British citizenship.

However, it is possible for a person to be a British Overseas Territories citizen by naturalisation, or if a child by registration (sections 18 and 17 of the British Nationality Act 1981 respectively), and so for that individual not to be automatically British. Such an individual would only become British by virtue of registration under section 4(2) of the British Nationality Act 1981 if the relevant requirements are met. These include residence in the UK, good character and excess absences, amongst others.

anguilla1980 Nov 20th 2015 7:27 pm

Re: "Belongers" in BIOTs
 
So if I understand that correctly.....

I was born BOTC prior to 21st may 2002 and I have both an Anguilla and UK/EU passport. However my children are another story, for example, one son is born in 1999 so he would get a UK/EU passport just like me in addition to his Anguillian. However my other son, born in 2003, would not automatically get a UK/EU passport in addition to his Anguilla passport unless he meets the other requirements.

Is that correct?

Then there still may be another way for my youngest born in 2003 to still get UK/EU. By virtue that I, his, father, is a UK/EU citizen.


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