Almost Canadian

I seem to recall you are ex-military.

How many service personnel wore their uniform outside of barracks? What about lack of bins at all airports, train stations etc?

The change should be related to the threat: someone uses a knife to access the cockpit; such items are not allowed on board: someone tries to blow up a plane using a substance in a shoe; passengers have to have their shoes checked. It isn't rocket science.

I am happy to undergo the checks. If they become too onerous, I won't visit the US. Simple really.

Novocastrian

Not wishing to start a disagreement, but don't you think it goes more like this?


It's called shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted. Or, possibly, more ways than one to skin a cat.

Meanwhile the people who suffer are the traveling public.

Almost Canadian

I don't disagree and, ideally, one should implement measures before someone attempts someone. I can imagine how people would react to that. Intrusive government and all that.

Ad other commentators have said. They should operate two systems. One where there are no searches and you can take whatever you want onboard, the other where searches, profiling, etc are used and let the travelling public decide which they prefer.

Alan2005

The american intelligence services were told about the 9/11 people and did nothing. They were told about the underwear bomber and did nothing.

The security stuff at airports is expensive, inconvenient and completely pointless. It has not prevented one single terrorist attack or led to the arrest of anyone involved with terrorism.

Former Lancastrian

Yes they do and they suffer the consequences however dont you think thats what terror organizations set out to do as well as attacks on the countries of their choice? They have the advantage that they can strike wherever and whenever whereas we have to figure out ways of minimising these risks.
Its hard to decide what bolt to put on the stable before you buy the horse when the bolts are constantly changing and getting better.
As almost Canadian said let the public choose which airline to take, the ones with checks and balances or the do whatever you like sort of airline and lets see who stays in business the longest. I know which airline I would prefer and whoever has ever flown El Al will testify that they have a pretty good record of averting or preventing such attacks.

Alan2005

And do you know how they do this? It's not full body scanners, intrusive searches, or making people take their shoes off.

Former Lancastrian

And you have proof of this ???
You have made it pretty clear in other threads that you dont like the security at borders and that as a citizen of the world that you should be able to go where and when you want without being subjected to any checks.
That is your opinion however I will ask when you travel do you stand upto the oppresive Govt regimes such as the USA and Canada and refuse to hand over or show a passport or do you sheepishly hand it over hoping that you dont get further examined. Talk is cheap thats why I have suggested you travel to the DPR Korea and Syria etc to see if your theory on not being checked would work. As for being the slave well yeah I guess I am as I care who comes into this country unlike you so if you dont care who comes into the country then I guess its only right you shouldnt care who comes into your house then.
BTW I havent decided yet if you are a wummer or just ill informed.

Former Lancastrian

No they use profilers who are constantly monitoring passengers but they also have the detecting tools as well, and us being Canadians well how would we react to profiling people? Well we objected hence the checks we have.

lmartin999

I dont think I am going to go on holiday anymore. Just paid $12 + HST + tip for a pint of Stella at my airport hotel. I think that's possibly the most I have ever paid for a pint where there are no naked girls involved.....

Former Lancastrian

And now you have just found out there is a LCBO store just around the corner
Have a good trip and remember be nice to us when you come back

Alan2005

People always go on about how I should go to north korea - I've no idea why this, as usually the people that say that are apparatchiks such as yourself. People who approve of surveillance and state intrusion.

The reason I don't say piss off at the border is because you are authorized by the state to use violence against me - I can't compete with statist thugs who don't understand what freedom is. I'm just one guy.

As for evidence:

The father of the underwear bomber informed the CIA about it (clip from CNN):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UguilDrFNUE

I also recall a news item that said the flying schools had informed the authorities about the 9/11 people at the time, but I can't find it amongst all the crackpot conspiracy theorists. So apologies for that.

They say they don't. I saw an interview with El Al's head of security and they claim not to profile people. He may have been lying because that is the kind of thing I expect from the state and its agents.

Edit: This was an interview at the time the TSA was installing full body scanners in the US. The El Al guy was basically saying that this was a waste of time and money.

Oink

Holy bloody crap, that's atrocious.

huddm

Oink
Maybe if he visiting the UK he may shop as TESCO if he is visiting the UK

Stella Artois 10 X 440Ml Cans £7.00

I used to make home brew when we lived in Canada. LBCO is a well presented store, but found the prices to high.

Now we back in the UK we actually drink much less than Onatrio, maybe because the wife is much happier being here.

hudd

Dave+Jules

True, but these are minuscule responses to the threat. Basic preventative measures. I didn't feel my rights had been hugely violated because there wasn't waste bin in the station/airport.

Regarding searching for any sort of weapon, today it is a knife, and tomorrow someone uses a ballpoint pen to stab the pilot or a rolled up newspaper, even a packet of polos can be a serious weapon. We would be relatively save if we stripped naked and all flew in the nude, ensure all luggage is checked or personally packed by a super security cleared baggage packer. Where will it end.


The point is if someone really wants to do you harm there are a miriiad number of ways limited only by your imagination. I don't have the answer but I am convinced implementing ever more draconian rules isn't the way. Paranoia in the extreme, assume everyone is an enemy and treat the accordingly is hardly the way to win friends and influence people.

I avoid going to the USA where possible the benefits have to significantly outweigh the hassle(I suppose the terrorists feel the same way).

Former Lancastrian

You make some very valid points but isnt that how the terrorists are now playing the game? They strike fear and paranoia into the general populous they are fighting. They force Govts into spending billions of dollars on security measures that some will argue dont or cant stop these attacks.
They are merely a deterrant factor however they are put in place to try to convince that the populous is being protected and it is safe to go on about their normal lives. Yes its an inconvenience when travelling but if they were not in place then how many would risk travelling?
I too dont have the answers but I look at the risk factor and make plans accordingly.
Im flying to Vegas in March. Do I cancel my trip because of the hassle of going through airport security checks? Am I thinking is it safe to fly based on threats as opposed to the plane crashing through mechanical failure?