dbd33

My brother glassed someone in Scotland Yard, a bar in Canada, I expect if you've been to Canada you'll know it. The bouncer, Steroid Steve, cut the table off but didn't throw us out. He said that the attack wasn't malicious as shown by his having brought the glass down on the head. They were as accustomed to such events as would be a bouncer in the UK. Perhaps not Bournemouth, mind, I expect they see a lot more in Bournemouth. I'd think twice about a night on the town there.

Vancouver seems an odd choice for someone who enjoys a drinking culture, it's a famously stay-at-home kind of place. Still, wherever you are, there's merit in seeing somewhere else.

iaink

The EXACT same thing more or less applies to Canada. Except for the overcrowding. But then the bits of the UK with low paying or no jobs also tend not to be too crowded too.

Emigrating without a decent paying job in store is more often than not a mugs game. Im not "nostalgic" about the UK, Im just relating the facts about the people I still know that live and work there and adding some experience from an expat perspective. Dont shoot the messenger

dbd33

The UK is overcrowed line gets too much play on here, I think. There are empty bits of the UK, the North Antrim coast, for example is uncrowded and gorgeous, North Wales, the Highlands of Scotland, also attractive and not crammed. They're of limited to use to someone in Wembley because it takes half the night to get to them by car and that's the weekend eaten up, but that's exactly the situation of someone in Toronto who wants some elbow room. It's three or four hours to get clear of the suburbs on a Friday evening and then it's 150 miles to Algonquin.

Yes, if you live in an oil camp you have ready access to tundra but then, if you're a crofter, you have ready access to peat. Most people don't have jobs like that and are stuck in conurbations.

MarylandNed

Yes there are always exceptions because the whole country hasn't been concreted over yet. However the UK is a relatively densely populated country and one of the most densely populated in Europe (behind only smaller countries such as Belgium, Holland, Monaco, Malta, San Marino and Vatican City). The UK's population density is much higher than the likes of Italy, Portugal, and Spain and it's twice that of France. Only Germany of the larger European countries comes close to the UK numbers but the UK wins that one too. Also, England is by far the most densely populated part of the UK. The numbers for Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland are much lower.

dbd33

Similarly, Canada overall has a low population density but most of the people live along the border with the US and most of those live between Oshawa and Detroit. The population density in the Beach is not wildly different from that in Wembley and the barriers to reaching the countryside are greater in Canada since there's little in the way of public transport.

Jingsamichty

Cough! Splutter! Did I just read on another thread that you live at the edge of the Cotswolds?!

Apologies for trotting out the old cliche, but perhaps you should put down the Daily Mail and go outside and look with your own eyes.

MarylandNed

Yes, you can draw isolated comparisons to make whatever argument you want. Yes, Canada is a bit of an anomaly in that most of the land mass is pretty much uninhabitable and most of the population lives within 100 miles of the US border. Even then I bet it still has a much lower population density than the UK.

The US is a better comparison because, unlike Canada, the population is more evenly distributed north, south, east and west. The UK's population density is at least 20 times that of the US.

North America in general is just not as densely populated as Europe (even if you just consider the habitable parts). And the UK (and especially England) is one of Europe's most densely populated countries.

R I C H

Exactly - unless he lives on Hester's Way in Cheltenham, I doubt he's ensconced in depravity.

iaink

If you live in a city or town the population density is going to be more or less the same. London vs Toronto, Small town vs small town, middle of nowhere vs middle of nowhere...

What matters is access to the countryside. If you live in a city, then there is going to be traffic to deal with to escape it. I live in the countryside more or less, but as far as access to the countryside goes, you really cant beat the UK for footpaths and rights of way. Outside of narrow corridors like the abandoned rail trails in my area, if you want access here in Canada more often than not you are looking at a long trip to a true wilderness area if the local smaller provincial parks and conservation areas are too restrictive.

If on the other hand you want to ski, then Canada is better for that.

Canada is not a magic bullet for the down side of modern urban life. Ive "escaped" the urban rat race, but as a family we spend nearly $500 a month on petrol as a consequence of that.

dbd33

and it's interesting to contrast with Australia, but that has bugger all to do with the access to the countryside of the average person in the UK vs. the same in Canada.

Mr fixyou

I don't read the daily mail, I try to stick to broadsheets or at least the daily star

As for living in Cheltenham, I'm not from hesters way, I grew up in the other end of town around Montpellier. As for it being a nice place to live, it's not bad there's certainly worse areas in the uk. But I will say this, I've been back in Cheltenham for a year after 10 years away. In that time I've seen 2 stabbings in the town centre at night (one was two women fighting, one got stabbed) a friend of mine was murdered and I've lost count of the number of people I've seen getting started on in the town centre. So it's not quite how you'd imagine a nice well to do regency spa town to be. Still it could be worse, it could be Gloucester!

MarylandNed

Here's an interesting article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...in-Europe.html

Now let's look at the "real" population density of Canada. Let's assume that the border with the "lower 48" US states (I'm ignoring the border with Alaska) is about 4000 miles long and that the population of Canada lives within 100 miles of that border. They all don't but let's assume they do even though it will make the population density appear higher than it really is.

4000 miles x 100 miles = 400000 sq miles of habitable space.

Canada's population is about 34 million.

So based on these numbers, the population density in this habitable space is 34,000,000 people divided by 400000 sq miles which equals 85 people per square mile.

The population density of the UK is about 630 people per square mile. In England, it's 1000+ per square mile.

iaink

That rather overlooks the reality of the geography here. People are not strung evenly along 3000 miles of border, they are packed into towns and cities here and there. Especially in the "Golden Horseshoe" where most of the population of Canadas most populous province lives.

Yes, canada has vast areas of space, but for the most part its all a long way away from where people can live and find decent work, just like the UK, only farther away probably. Besides, with only two weeks vacation who has time to do anything with it anyway... At least in the UK you are only a cheap flight away from somewhere less crowded.

Partially discharged

Italy, Spain and France have a high proportion of rural de-population with large swathes of agricultural land virtually empty population wise (the actual farmers often live in the nearby towns) and little in the way of rural non-farm population.

Many towns, cities in Italy, Spain, France have populations that are almost entirely in apartments with detached homes or semis with lawns a rarity.

I think the biggest thing to look at is urban density...other than a few tower blocks in the bigger cities, the UK urban density is lower than Italy, Spain, France where apartments or multi-family units are built to the edge of the town and then it is straight into farmland...something you will not find in a Canadian urban setting

MarylandNed

Huh? I just chopped out a huge chunk of the friggin' country! I can chop out more and still arrive at a population density much less than that of the UK. How many miles north of the US border do you want to give me? 50? 25?