Surrey Expat

Chasing rainbows can be a very unsettling experience that never ends. As the Cheryl Crow song says 'It's not having what you want, It's wanting what you've got'

Hope you find your pot of gold.

Steve_P

Why would you let the immigration experience sour your view of the whole country?

It is such a small part of the experience, once you gain your PR you have virtually nothing to do with it and once you become a Canadian citizen you have absolutely nothing to do with it.

Your comment sounds like an extreme example of sour grapes.

MikeUK

No its not immigration per say but it’s a valid example of the whole, but experience with the small minded government and its bureaucracy, and to some extent the mentality of the workforce and its unions…. IMHO the whole Canadian ethos of ‘good enough’ drives me nuts…..
I like the country and I’ve lived on a TWP for 4 yrs and got PR last year, but maybe some of my responses reflect my opinion that its not as great and wonderful as some around here imagine it to be…..
I’ll get citizenship if I stay, but that won’t mean that I won’t leave here, I certainly don’t expect or want to retire here, and nor does my wife and she's Born and bred Canadian
Maybe that’s a reflection 'that I’m only here for the work', and don’t have the emotional investment in this country that some who have given up huge amount of time and money to get here have.
May be it’s a reflection that its my second time in Canada and I came the second time without the rose tinted spec’s, or that I travel a lot with work and see both sides and think that the shity side of Canada should get as much fair ‘air’ time on this forum as its plus points (which are just as numerous)

I’m not bitter at Canada per say…more that I’m sour to those that fail to see that its just another G8 nation with all the normal flaws

Steve_P

Interesting points, I feel quite differently.

Perhaps because I came here at aged 16 and don't have any experience with anything other than the "Canadian experience" workforce wise. Plus I spent 30 years doing a job I thoroughly enjoyed.

I don't believe that rose tinted specs enter into my view but then again maybe they do and I don't realise it.

I don't disagree with your G8 comment though. Canada has its flaws, as you say it's no different than any other developed nation, nirvana it is not, but it suits me quit nicely.

acer rose

I understand that you may feel frustrated. I acknowledged that you may just have been letting off steam. I cannot really understand why you are whinging though. Either you are prepared to go through the bureaucratic process of getting PR to reduce other paperwork (approval for school attendance or whatever) or you stick it out on a work permit while it's the best job offer you've got and deal with the other bureaucratic aspects of being temporarily resident in a foreign country.

For the record, I have been in a similar situation. We were living and working on a temp visa in a foreign country for 18 months when a permanent job offer there came up. I always felt like a second class person (not even a second class citizen) living there. That feeling was not likely to change with more permanent status so, the permanent job offer was turned down, we served out the time we'd originally planned (2 years with the tentative idea originally that it might be a permanent move) and headed back to the UK, mostly because that is where the next opportunity arose. No whining about what a horrible system it was, no berating the civil servants about their system (including 9 hours waiting to be told our paperwork should have been dealt with elsewhere on one occasion), and most of all accepting responsibility for our own decisions and happiness. The project went on to be a great success. The economy of that country did not crash. The world kept turning. Many people (including some of our friends) still live very happily there with varying degrees of permanency. That particular country was just not for us (well, me specifically) and everything about it irritated me. The solution was not to whinge but to move on.

If you'd wanted empathy, perhaps you should have gone to the Moving back to the UK part of the forum. There are plenty of discussions about being worn out by decisions on where to live, when to move and dealing with marital breakdowns resulting from those decisions. There are some very wise words e.g. http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...06#post5428306. Perhaps you might read a few stories there that will help you appreciate the opportunities you've had to travel and the life you can choose how to live.

ManBearPig

I totaly agree with MikeUK on this.

I don't think I really was aiming too much criticism at the Canadian system compared to any other immigration system. I have been through it before, and it's not really any different here. It's mike's comment about the emotional attachment that rings most true with me. I feel like I have been battling to be in a place that I am not particularly passionate about being in. I don't have horses like jolly jack tar. Perhaps I should. Instead I have a regular house and job etc in a pretty ordinary suburban town. I agree with Mike that I could live like this anywhere in the G8 with a few minor differences here and there.

acer rose I think your being a bit hard. I take complete responsibility for my life and decisions and always have. Of course we need to get on and make the best of it or leave. That's precisely what I am doing. I'm fortunate to free to do just that. I'm no way a victim here, like you say I just wanted to vent a bit on this forum.

allicat001

Or the Costa Blanca just as bad

gotoronto

I know you apologised for the rant and I know how desperate you are to live here. Perhaps in a situation where someone has actually made it successfully over here and is ungrateful, I can understand your pain.

I used to feel like you when I read stories like the OP's. Now that I am here in Canada, though, I realise that it is not working for me personally. I used to get angry at the people who took up a visa and did not bother to come here or went home really quickly, but now that I am here I understand. When you get turned down at every door - even the McJob doors - it brings your confidence to new lows. When your life savings go out of the window and you can't succeed, you do question why you are here. You do lose the enthusiasm (but of course, in OP's case, there is no such struggle, so I can see why you would be upset).

I can sympathise with the OP saying that he wished he had been refused, in a way. I used to be in a panic about not making it here after all the wait and panic about being refused, but now that I am here I sometimes think a refusal would have been good, as we would not have had to go through so much pain and agony over here. We knew it would be tough, but we never thought it would be THIS tough. On the other hand, we may have always wondered "what if" if we did not get the PR visa and tried it.

Believe me, Scottdrummer, I would more than happily give you my PR visa if it was possible to give it back and give it to someone else. It's a shame that it does not work that way... . The reality is that you do not know how everything will pan out until you actually get here. It works for some and not for others!

I think OP should have posted in the "Moving back to the UK" forum, though, if he was looking for sympathy or like-minded people.

MikeUK

No I think sometimes the real but less positive issues need to be aired here too

this is about Canadian lifestyle and its not utopia here and a fair reflection by some of the issues that they feel are negative or troubling will help many to get a better perspective on what and where they want to move to

If all we had on here were the plus points many more people would end up on the the "Moving back to the UK" forum

From my perspective I find it sad to see that it’s often those not here yet that berate those that are here and are finding the reality of the move unsettling, when in reality people do move here and find that it doesn’t work and do have to go home…. None of them wanted or planned it that way but sh1t happens and life isn’t perfect….

What this place needs more honesty ……….

Surrey Expat

Apologies if I have this wrong, but am I right in thinking you have only been here for a few months?

It is a tough readjustment, but takes way longer to ever feel like it was the right move for many people. I was lucky enough to have a job when I arrived, but not one I especially enjoyed, it was a means to an end. A lot of the contentment and how much one is prepared to put up with is dependent on how badly they want to live here and make it work. Going back to to ones comfort zone is the easier option.

It is three years before the 'feeling like home' sets in and quite a few more (up to 10 before feeling like a local). On more than one occasion I was set to go back, but stuck it out and how glad I am that I did that. There are no circumstances I can see that would get me to move back.

We're fortunate to be living the life we had hoped for in Canada, perhaps even a bit more, but it did not come easily or quickly. Still room for some improvements & changes, but that could be the same anywhere.

Few things worth having come easily or quickly.

gotoronto

This is exactly why I did not want to post at first. Yes, I have only been here a few months. I was strongly attacked by people in another thread for wanting to go back after a few months.

BUT the reality is that I have not had ANY success - even when I look at McJobs, which I have also been doing since I arrived. I am afraid that when I apply for these things, I get a big "no". I have sent out several hundred resumes and have phoned places to follow-up and make enquiries. I have networked and pounded the pavement. Please don't tell me now that I have to try harder. I personally do not think it is worth it anymore - and I have tried to justify why I should try longer many times. I am tired of it.

I agree that it depends on how badly you want to make it work. The thing is that personally, I saw this place through rose-tinted glasses. I am not blaming Canada or Toronto for that - it's a personal thing that I find this place not to be worth the agony.

The problem with this board is that those people who cannot make it work or have gone home rarely dare come back on the board to share their stories, because there is a tendency on here for people to bring those people down with phrases like, "You have not given it a fair chance".

It's tough to advise people on their personal circumstances, as all circumstances are different. Emigrating is tough - some can handle it, some can't. And there are many things that people do not post on the board that are very personal and may constitute reasons for going home. Medical problems, family problems, unexpected financial problems etc. are some to think of.

As I said, I was on the other side of the fence. Getting annoyed at those that were not trying hard enough in my eyes. It is easy to get annoyed when you are waiting for that PR visa or if you have made Canada work for you and really love the place.

Don't forget that it also depends where in the UK you came from and how your life was prior to coming here. It also depends on what is important to you in life. That is not the same for everyone. We are all different people!

gotoronto

Thanks, Mike.

dazzlerdaz

A fair point !

Surrey Expat

I empathize with your frustrations, and would not dare to say try harder, it seems you have been giving it your best shot. My suggestion if any is don't give up just yet. After all the effort to get PR is it not worth some extra time to see where it goes?

After some discussion, my OH & I decided we would wait for citizenship (3 years) and then see how we felt. We did that and have not looked back, but believe me many on here have had their ups and downs too and pulled though, however some have also gone back. It is easy for those who it has worked out for to say stick it out and for those that it has not worked out to say give it up. End of the day, it is a personal choice and no one should judge or can advise. Hope it works out how you would like it to.

gotoronto

Thank you for understanding - it is very true what you say.