Working in Canada, computers/web programming
 

I'll be coming over to Canada permanently next summer with the family (Immigration). I program in server side web languages, with PHP a speciality. Is there anyone who has a similar background gone from the UK and found work in Canada easily? Or went freelance/contracting? I realise it depends on where you live etc. as to work available but I'd like to hear from anyone who has gone down this path and the experiences they've had. Any Canadians out there who may give me a few tips?

Re: Working in Canada, computers/web programming
 

Talk to dbd33. He's the resident technopimp! ;)

Re: Working in Canada, computers/web programming
 

Not for that stuff, can't help at all, sorry.

Re: Working in Canada, computers/web programming
 

Okedokey dbd33, dbd=DataBaseDude? ;) What techy stuff do you do?

Re: Working in Canada, computers/web programming
 

The dbd is actually DeadBeatDad but, yes, I do some database stuff. I've converted and loaded 90,000,000 rows of stuff this very afternoon. Usually we deal with big databases but this is a freebie for a demo.

The problem with web stuff is that anyone with access to the web can do it. We did pimp some First Nations people, hyping the lack of time difference between them and the client "The Third World on your Doorstep" was the slogan for the rez, but even they couldn't work cheaply enough to beat actual Indians.

Re: Working in Canada, computers/web programming
 

That's like saying the problem with computer repair stuff is that anyone with access to a computer can do it.
What databases? Oracle??
90,000,000 rows... :D

There's another thread I read a few moments ago from some guy who can't get a job in IT no matter how he tries, yet someone else who answered him is turning down interviews. Must be the way individuals are going about things over there.

Re: Working in Canada, computers/web programming
 

Hi,

From my experiences so far I would advise to do one hell of a lot of homework..

From the comments made in the thread I raised and from conversations with other brits here in Vancouver it seems that building a network of contacts seems to produce results.

From what I can tell so far this is how a lot of jobs get filled. How this gets done as a newcomer is a very good question. Some people have advised going to user groups etc. I don’t know what the success rate is with this approach is so maybe some others on the forum can quote some experiences/stats for you.

The other aspect apparently is “the big sell” banging on doors and punting yourself. Some of the contributors to my previous thread have stated they've been successful this way, however I don’t think they explained the finer detail of how they targeted the companies they had interviews with.

It’s probably worth asking them to enlighten you i.e. Did they have specific in demand skills ? Did they already have contacts in these companies ? What type of “pre-sell” investigation did they do on the company?

I don’t mind sending you my CV as an example of one that’s achieved no success at least it would be a reference point from which you can work away from. (PM me with you email address and I’ll send it over)

I’ve spoken to other a number of other brits that are experiencing the same type of problems as me so my advice to you is do a comparison of the two end’s of the spectrum and hopefully you’ll get some answers.

Oh and if you do find some answers tell me as well as if this keeps up I’ll have to go back to blighty.

Re: Working in Canada, computers/web programming
 

If it's the post I'm thinking about, it did indeed have something to do with the way in which the individual was going about things. The way he was going about things was that, inter alia, he (a) was in Canada, (b) was in the city in which employers wanted to fill vacancies, and (c) had that magical "Canadian experience."

Re: Working in Canada, computers/web programming
 

I seem to recall that I responded to you in another thread, but there was one thing I didn't mention. It was the value of the so called "informational interview." This is a meeting in which you pick someone's brain about the field they're in. There is no expectation that the meeting will lead to a job offer. Rather, the person simply agrees to join you for a coffee and tell you about recent developments in their field, the direction in which they think the industry is headed, names of players in the field (companies and individuals within those companies), etc.

Because there is no pressure on the person to offer you a job, it is a lot easier to persuade someone to grant you an informational interview than to grant you a job interview. Yet informational interviews can provide you with useful information. It can mean that, when you approach a company, you already have the name of a relevant person who works there (as well as the name of a buddy whom you can quote). It's part of what you referred to as pre-sell investigation.

The same etiquette applies to informational interviews as applies to job interviews. After the meeting contact the person, thank them, and let them know how you used the information that they provided.

Re: Working in Canada, computers/web programming
 

There we go steve666.

Make sure you pick the right city to start with don't go along the path of picking somewhere you'd like to live and then moving to another place if you can't get work.

It's seems the idea of someone being willing to relocate scares them a bit. Why I don't know ? It takes 5 hours to fly one side to another and a couple of hours to book a hotel. In my mind that's all you need to do to. I've done that in the UK before and it worked out fine. Got the call in the morning got on a plane the next morning booked into the hotel after work on the first day.

The information interview seems like an option for you steve666 how you'll achieve it yourself prior to landing I'm not sure.

I'll give it a go myself and feed back to you if it gets me anywhere.

Re: Working in Canada, computers/web programming
 

I strongly believe there are many more jobs out there than when I first arrived 3 years ago, and it's more of a marketing exercise now - of yourself!

More specifically I was accidentally employed for a PHP/MySQL job, I think in general a lot of the large corporations tend to go Microsoft and also recruitment agencies. Because of the free nature of this beast it appeals more to independents & smaller companies not willing to pay recruiters.
It might be obscure but check the jobs on http://vancouver.craigslist.org/

My standard reply from the Brits2Van Yahoo group:------

IT job search can be very frustrating and the websites cover a multitude of different skills.

Firstly you need a killer resume and a relevant cover letter with at least one researched fact for each company. Workopolis below has plenty of resume tips. You can even type ‘resume’ and a particular skill into google & poach a format you like from someone in a similar profession.

Resumes ideally have your skillset in the first half page, sometimes people don’t read any further. Also say you at least have permission to work in Canada ‘loudly’, either as PR or have a SIN (rather than saying work-permit as that implies temporary.)

You could reply to ads on the following websites, you could even profile companies who advertise previously & mailshot them for future jobs.
http://working.canada.com/vancouver/index.html ‘ads from local papers
http://www.bctechnology.com/scripts/search_form.cfm
http://www.bcjobs.ca/index.cfm
http://jobsearch.monster.ca/

However replying to ads is not the most effective way to find an opening, you’ve got to get networking.
http://www.workopolis.com/content/re...etnumbers.html
http://www.fwt.bc.ca/netwrk_cat_ducharme.htm
practice ‘An elevator speech -a 20 second natural sounding introduction as to who you are and how you benefit others’

The most useful site TechVibes, check out the companies tab & search for companies with a familiar profile. Note: this has more than just IT companies in here.
http://www.techvibes.com/job/searchjob.asp?city=1

Access the hidden job market before they need to advertise
http://www.bctop100.com/hitech.htm
http://business.superpages.ca ‘you get websites with many entries here

If you need some more advice join the job search workshops run by Landell. I understand they are very good and it will also give vital tips, confidence & therapy.
http://www.landell.com/JSP.htm

Concentrate efforts in major recruitment times 2 weeks after 1 Sept, Xmas, Easter. Avoid the quiet recruitment times July, Aug, Dec. Don’t waste time on irrelevant applications.

Remember it takes an age for Canadian companies to get back to you.
Helen

Re: Working in Canada, computers/web programming
 

Hi,
I am in a closely related field - Application Devlopment Manager. I work in the Web development area - I lead programmers but we work with the Microsoft World using .Net 2.0 .Net Ajax C#.

Lots of opportunities but a lot depends on where you are wanting to land. Some areas have a great advertising style while other areas are more word of mouth and personal references. Small town and small cities have a lot of start up companies and boom and bust style operations where they are taking staff on and laying them off. Cubicle world is over here - if you like that style and there are lots of opportunities for going freelance or even starting your own business - all depending on where you go.

Are you planning on changing your life style and landing in a certain place or are you happy to go where the work is?

Re: Working in Canada, computers/web programming
 

There are jobs out there - I'm an IT Project Manager, and was very fortunate in that I applied for a role from the UK, told them I was going to be in BC for 1 week and they arranged an interview for that window. I got the job, and moved out 4 months later (during which time we sold up in the UK/arranged sabbatical for partner just in case things didn't work out etc.!). 5 months on and my employer has just sponsored me for PNP.

Guess there is an element of luck- spotting the right opportunity and finding someone who is willing to give you a try, just as with job hunting anywhere.

BC is certainly recognising a general skills shortage though, and recently changed the PNP policy to make it a bit easier to apply and qualify and also to recognise additional IT skills. And if you see the Premier's recent press release (NEW MEASURES TO TRAIN, ATTRACT AND RETAIN WORKERS) he acknowledges the need to encourage more foreigners to BC to plug the skills gap.

Good luck!

Re: Working in Canada, computers/web programming
 

Even as a Canadian I had a hard time finding a tech job in Vancouver. A few weeks after I arrived from many years living in London I had an interview for a job that was almost exactly like the one I was doing in London but I was unsuccessful. It took me about four months until I got a job doing tech support for a service provider. It was low paid, stressful and offered no holidays. I quit after 6 months. More than six months after that I finally found a half decent tech support job not too far from home. If my partner didn't have a job I would have for sure returned to the UK. You have to stick it out. In retrospect I probably could have shortened the job search time if I had knocked on more doors, etc. I get the impression from reading techvibes the market is flooded with web programmers. If you haven't already you might want to check out the Vancouver PHP Group.

Re: Working in Canada, computers/web programming
 

If you're referring to my post, then a) yes, being in Canada is a definite advantage unless you are in one of those extremely rare positions that they have difficulty filling fromthe local pool (I'm in software testing, OH is in desktop support/networking, so not exactly hard to fill positions). b) We deliberately did our research and came to the GTA, where we know that tech jobs are abundant (because they really are...we probably applied to 80+ jobs each that matched our experience and skill sets) and c) nope, never worked in Canada a day in our lives. No Canadian experience whatsoever. Nor was the phrase "Canadian experience" ever mentioned to either one of us. It seems less important in tech jobs, the skills are worldwide transferable.

We each turned down several interviews, OH starts his job this morning, I start mine on Monday (I'm a she by the way). Good benefits, good salaries, not too many hoops to jump through (just arranging references, etc.). I'm going to go sort out a second car today, and we bought a house yesterday...it's been a busy few weeks! As of this moment, we've been in Canada for a month and 3 days.

Oh, someone asked how we targeted the companies we "cold called". OH went through the Microsoft Gold Certified Partners list on the MS website. He viewed each companies website, if they had a suitable open position he applied for it, if they didn't have an open position but stated that they always accept resumes, then he sent a speculative resume asking about any open positions they may have in the near future. I went about it slightly differently, I literally went to www.yellowpages.ca and did a search for Software and the areas I was looking at. I then did the same thing...checked out each company website, applied for positions or sent a speculative resume. It is the 21st century version of knocking on doors. It is time consuming, but they always say that you should approach looking for work as a full time job in itself. This was as well as combing all of the standard job sites. It may seem like a redundant process, but we are still turning down interviews now (since we've already signed our contracts), so it must've worked!

Re: Working in Canada, computers/web programming
 

That job is Oracle, yes.

Re: Working in Canada, computers/web programming
 

hi dbd33, any luck on z/OS environment? application programming for that matter?

a good starting point would be great!

thanks a zillion!

Re: Working in Canada, computers/web programming
 

I need a contract z/OS systems person, a capacity planner for a large DB2 implementation who can also do the run of software implementations under z/OS. Capacity planning will be a challenge as they currently write nothing to SMF. Obviously it's a job for someone old, someone old and Spanish speaking would be perfect.

That's it for advertising. I'm dbd33@hotmail.

Re: Working in Canada, computers/web programming
 

gee!!! i should have taken that systems training... sad to say i'm not into systems but more on applications.

any available MIPS for that?

Re: Working in Canada, computers/web programming
 

That's blatant discrimination against all the young non Spanish speaking programmers ;)

Re: Working in Canada, computers/web programming
 

More people than work, I'm afraid. Even I have had to diversify to keep the wolf from the door; I now do Cobol as well as Assembler.

Re: Working in Canada, computers/web programming
 

Well, it could all be done by VPN so the client wouldn't have to know the worker was young. Usually one goes on site for a couple of weeks and mingles before retreating to the basement, but that can be faked; we had to do that when using child labour. We still do that where the client expresses a preference for not meeting people who have, er, specific physical characteristics and our person has those attributes. Where though can one find a young z/OS person? That's like looking for a young quilter.

Re: Working in Canada, computers/web programming
 

so how's a conversion from application to systems sound like?

hoping it's like SNA to MQ.

...got a lot of years ahead so i guess that's one thing less to worry about... :D

Re: Working in Canada, computers/web programming
 

I don't know how one would go about that. It used to be that people trained for technical positions on the job but now the machines and the immediate support are mostly in India and it's only long established technicians who get onshored work. It's great if you have an established reputation for something technical but I don't know that there's any way to learn. I think it quite ironic that grey power should be a force in computing.

Re: Working in Canada, computers/web programming
 

i guess a DB2 certified specialist would be my best bet then...

Re: Working in Canada, computers/web programming
 

You sound reallllyyy pissed off. judging by other parts of the thread and reading through your own I guess Vancouver is not the place to be, techy wise. We're down for Ontario somewhere, I own my own IT support company here in the UK and may continue doing that in Canada. Although starting afresh is going to be bloody difficult (again). Thanks for your reply and I'll be glad to see your CV/resume, my email address is [email protected], I'll give you some feedback from it too.
I hope you take some positive thoughts from the stuff people have written on this forum. Keep your chin up, purse those lips and sit at your PC and do what cov-canuck has done, it worked for them did it not?

Re: Working in Canada, computers/web programming
 

Thanks VERY much for that Helen, a good few things to think about there, and double thanks for the web links. We actually want to go for Ontario (somewhere) so to be near Toronto would be the obvious destination in my line of work. My wife is in Project management, she's been applying to the oil people in Calgary through agencies, we want to go with the jobs are as a priority (when through the door...) then work out the living angle second.

Re: Working in Canada, computers/web programming
 

Thanks for the reply...

Started to get into Microsoft development stuff back in 2001 with my own company, but I had a customer (very lucrative one) who wanted all work done in PHP and MYSQL, so I obliged of course. Never did go back to Microsoft.

When we come over It'll be the work as priority and lifestyle second, at least at the start, we have 2 'late' teenagers to sort out so we need money coming in fairly quickly. Vancouver's out as we may need to get back to England at short notice (old parents), Calgary is the furthest west we'd go but we got almost 10 months to get things planned so who knows?

Re: Working in Canada, computers/web programming
 

Some great advice there. Great to hear things are working out for the both of you so soon after arriving - it gives me a sense of hope!