Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

I think the 'grass is greener' is human nature to some extent... PLUS we hope help on BE will let us know if it is the norm & not a way of fooling the unknowing.

My sister's complaint seemed to be something to do with bacon - my comment was she was stretching if that was her main problem with a new life at the other side of the world.;)

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

Oh well looks like post dated cheques it is then. Now where did I leave them.......with my quill I think somewhere.

No doubt there is a Canadian Expats forum somewhere where someone is asking about that strange UK banking practice the standing order.

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

It's really the most convenient way for both tenant and landlord. From the tenants point of view it saves them forgetting to post a cheque every month or delivering it to the landlord. From the landlord's point of view it saves a lot of bother, I take all the cheques to the bank in one go and they pay them into my account on exactly the right day that the rent is due.

I know it seems an ancient way of doing things but it works well.

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

I think what a few people who have recent experience in the UK are getting at is the fact that by having the ability to utilise direct debits or standing orders (not sure what the terms are in Canada), this removes the hassle of using cheques. Writing them out, delivering them to the landlord, landlord taking to the bank each time etc etc all costs time and money to both parties.

Quite archaic in this technological day and age, in my view, but as many people have commented, it is what it is.

I guess i'll need to practice using a pen as i've not touched one for ages.

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

I appreciate the convenience of direct debits and standing orders too but we just have to accept that it isn't going to happen here in the near future. Even when you try and explain how it works to bank employees they look at you like a dog watching TV.

Definitely archaic but not worth worrying about.

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

According to someone at the bank (Toronto Dominion) yesterday there is no $1000 limit on the Interac Email payment system so in theory that should be an option. They also said the recipient can set up an automatic payment collection using the details on the senders cheque - this sounded like a direct debit to me but she called is something else.

It seems more bother than it's worth to follow up though.

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

Its pretty common with private landlords, not as common with stratas or apartment buildings owned by a leasing company.

Depending on province you might be able to refuse. I always did as I dont buy checks, and my bank only gave me 1 free check a month.

I was so not buying checks just to pay rent and its not my problem if the landlord doesn't want to be accesible for me to pay rent on the day its due, not before.

I've been screwed once too many times by landlords depositing checks early and will never do it again, always someone else willing to rent who wont require it and I now try to only rent from leasing companies or direct from stratas, the private landlord route is not something I want to deal with again.

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

< mumbles about having to pay to have a bank account, use an ATM, and pay for cheques >

Sorry, did I say something? :D

I rented a couple of places in Toronto and had to hand over post dated cheques and thankfully never had a problem with them being cashed early, my second landlady seemed to cash them late if anything.

I did ask them who their account was with and if it had been TD then I'd have used their "personal payment" system to setup an automatic transfer to them every month, but alas neither of the landladies were with TD.

I did leave a place early and the landlady was more than happy to send the remaining cheques over to me to destroy as she didn't bulk deposit them at the bank, which was nice, as otherwise I'd have to cancel them and that would of course cost me to do so and with at least six months left, that would add up a fair bit as I doubt the bank would give any kind of discount if you're canceling multiple cheques.

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

A good landlord will not mind asking the bank to return your cheques and then pass them back to you if they have been deposited in bulk. It can take a few days for them to come back though. I usually time it to coincide with the return of the tenant's deposit.

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

It would probably work ok but I doubt if it would be free.

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

Sorry to hear you've had a bad time but how did you know it was the landlord depositing the cheque early and not a bank mistake? If it's a post-dated cheque it should not go through anyway.

How do you pay your rent?

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

An organization I'm involved with started accepting post dated cheques for payment.

The first deposit the person responsible deposited all of the cheques at once, her excuse was she'd never heard of post dated cheques before so figured you deposited them and the bank took care of it.

The bank didn't check dates and cashed the lot. It took months to sort it out. Someone at the bank muttered no-one told us they were post dated.

Bottom line I wouldn't trust the bank to catch the error.

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

Banks make mistakes. But legally I *think* they are allowed to cash the cheque (something about the date being an agreement between the writer and the receiver of the cheque and it being illegal to write a cheque if you know you don't have the funds to cover it - not really sure, maybe somebody that knows Canadian banking law will know).

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

Me neither.

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

:lol::lol:

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

A previous UK bank admitted they didn't check any cheques - signatures or date, when I had my book stolen - my account was free :p, but don't imagine it would have been better if I had paid.

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

Apparently if the bank is a member of the Canadian Payments Association (CPA) then they CANNOT cash the cheque before the date indicated on it.

Who knew? :confused::)

http://www.fcac-acfc.gc.ca/eng/consu...Info-5-eng.asp

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

That's lousy service from the bank. I think you do have to tell them that the cheques you are handing over are post-dated and I usually see them being put into a special envelope to be sent to head office. They are not deposited in branch.

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

Well, I guess that corrects what I thought. I still wouldn't risk it though.

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

Apparently not see my follow-up post directly above yours. ;)

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

Email Interac is $1.50 for the sender nothing for the recipient.

TD said the payment collection had no charge for either party. I was suprised at that so asked them again too make sure and they said definately no charge.

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

I suppose you could write "POST DATED CHEQUE" in the memo field on each cheque and use a highlighter on the date - it can't get more obvious than that. It all seems like a crude effort though.

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

As a property manager with over 70 different tenants. I have all post dated cheques. It saves me and the tenant from having to collect/send it each month. When I have used the last cheque (some times people give me 6 some 12) i just phone them and they mail me some more.

I personally keep all the cheques in the safe and only take them to the bank on the 1st of each bank. BUT i know that if i wanted to leave them all at the bank i can and they will pay them in on the 1st of each month. The reason I do not do this is because tenants may leave and occasionally i have tenants who need me to hold the cheque for a day or two extra whilst they get the money in the bank. I photocopy all cheques and keep them on file.


i would love to have tenants pay the money into the bank by direct deposit (and i do have one person who does) but generally the banking systems do not support this due to privacy/security/ old systems what ever. Some of my tenants would not necessary know how/trust/mental ability to pay on line.

Someone mentioned that there is a more of a renting attitude here in canada. I don't think there is. It is just in the uk we have social and council housing so there is not the same scope for cheap housing with private landlords. In Calgary (and i am sure it is similar all over) there is no council housing as such and low income housing is very few and far between and are charity based, so there is more private landlords providing basement suites etc.

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

I am a returning Canadian expat, having spent over a decade in the UK, and as such I feel I can say the following:

The Canadian banking system sucks.

I am renting and have had to hand over 12 post-dated cheques. I'm not bothered about that, but I just feel it is such an inefficient way of doing things. I mean, cheques? Come on? The only time we ever used cheques in the UK was to for kids' school activities.

I recently wanted to send some money to my sister in Toronto and when I asked about how to do it electronically I was told I could do an "email cheque". Which apparently carries a $1000 limit and a charge of some sort as well (they charge for everything here, don't they?), and also a security question. WTF? In the UK I would have just put in her account details and off it goes! OK it would have taken 3 days to arrive in her account (although even that is changing), at least it can be done! And you know what - it can be done here too. The internet is worldwide after all! If I was able to transfer huge amounts of capital between the UK and Canada electronically and see that money appear in my account within seconds on another continent, then it is definitely possible to send money straight into a landlords account every month.

We are all be ripped off by the banks in this country. Why is it that in Britain, with a BOE rate of .5% I can get 3.3% on a basic savings account but in Canada, with BOC rate at .25% you can only get at best a 1% return on a savings account? The only banks offering more are not Canadian based banks (ie Ally, ING etc).

The Canadian banks are not even remotely interested in dragging themselves into the modern world. Why would they be? They are mollycoddled and protected by the government - being held up as poster boys for "responsibility" and "regulation". What a load of rubbish!

Yes, it is what it is. But you know what? That's not good enough for me. There are a lot of cages that need rattling in this country!

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

Gee you are so correct, of course, the banks in Canada did not require anything like the bailout that their English counterparts did and the most homeowners in Canada have not suffered from the housing crisis anything like as much as their English counterparts - but I am sure that you will not let facts like that get in the way of your rant - good for you:p

By the way, what rate of interest does the Bank of England offer savers? Surely this is the only English based bank, the other being owned by shareholders from all over the world:thumbsup:

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

Actually the government here has done quite a bit to prop up the banks, it just doesn't get publicised quite as much. Like, for example, the government taking on $70 billion in mortgage liabilities off the banks balance sheets. Just like that! CMHC underwriting $600 billion worth of mortgages given to people who have less than 20% to put down (ie the riskiest ones) - and who is on the hook for that? The taxpayer. It's all built into the system here. Nice cosy little club.

I also find it amusing that the banks here are quite happy to lend with 5% down over 35 years. On person I know recently got a mortgage and they don't even have a job! Now, I'm not one to support the banks in the UK, believe me they have been grossly negligent, but what I am saying is that it is no different here. In the UK it is near impossible to get a mortage with less than 20% down. The banks consider it too risky. But here in Vancouver - you want to borrow 8-10x your salary with 5% down? The banks will do it! Why? Because the CMHC will guarantee it. Unbelievable.

I can't believe how naive people are here when they say they think that Canada has better regulation and hasn't been hit by any of this economic stuff. It has, but your government is hiding it from you! Just wait, you'll see.

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

Do you actually understand how the CMHC works?

How is the Canadian government hiding this from the taxpayers ? - I gotta see how you explain this one.

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

I'd like to see that too. The original post was mostly ill informed "beau lochs".

By the way, you can transfer funds instantly by internet banking and also by making a simple deposit at any branch of her bank if you know her account number.

I sure hope that you know more about your own profession than you do about this. I'd hate to be a punter on one of your flights if you don't.

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

Who you working for and on what?

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

If you can't see that 0.25% interest rates are a bank bailout then you should open your eyes. I know it's been done to death, but Canadian banks do rip off their customers - saying 'we didn't need a bailout' is no justification. If Canadian banks lent sensibly then they would be able to make a profit on the interest differential between deposits and loans; there really is no need for effectively negative interest rates.

Lets face it, banking and bankers are systematically bad for every country they exist in. The socially useful function of extending capital to people and businesses that will use it productively has been forgotten. Right now with low interest rates people are borrowing high amounts to fund real estate purchases because the repayments are 'affordable' - however what this really means is that a large amount of the money we earn is just going directly into bank profits rather than the economy as a whole (hence the need for 'stimulus'). It amazes me that people don't get this. If I was in charge I'd enforce full reserve banking, none of this debt backed crap.

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

There was a good interview on the BBC website earlier this week where Evan Davis was speaking to Warren Buffet. WB put it very well but basically said that companies and individuals in the finance sector have been taking a cut out of the wealth generated by the economy out of all proportion to the value they add. He made a joke about say if a group of people were stranded on an island and grow their own food etc would they all decide it would be a good idea if 15% of them went off and started trading in what the rest were working to produce?

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

That's a little judgemental of you. I'm afraid I do know a little about what I am talking about, perhaps you'd better check your facts.

Here are some of mine:

The CMHC basically underwrites 100% of the mortage if the deposit is around 20% or less. This means the bank carries NO RISK for low deposit mortgages because the CMHC will pay in full if the mortgage holder defaults. There is more incentive for banks to issue higher ratio mortgages because of this (after all, their money is not at risk!). Nice one. The CMHC currently only has around $8 billion in the bank. So, what happens if property prices fall? But no one likes to think about that particular eventuality here. But who underwrites the CMHC? Hmmm....

As far as the huge liability Canadians have taken on in their name by the largely unregulated CHMC, try this recent article in the Globe:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...rticle1327491/

And as far as the government buying "assets" from the banks (ie read sub-prime), go no further than the following two press releases from the CMHC itself. Notice the first one was four days before the election. It refers to the initial $25 billion. Interesting timing.

http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/en/corp/n...10-10-1700.cfm

The second press release relating to the next $50 billion is here. Sorry, you were right, my facts were wrong - I was $5 billion low:

http://www.fin.gc.ca/news08/08-090e.html

Just because you don't necessarily like what I have to say about the banks does not mean that I am wrong. And it certainly doesn't reflect on what I do professionally no matter who is right.

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

Agree 100%.

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

I quite like Evan Davis's style (laid back and easy to understand) so I might check out that interview (assume it will be on iPlayer). I agree with what WB said, or at least your paraphrasing of it - put much better than I could as I tend to go off into rants (apologies to AC;))

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

OK, but surely you are aware that such borrowers pay a rather large premium to CMHC, I would imagine that actuaries have worked out what the premuims need to be on the based of likely defaults so, in essence, it is a glorified insurance scheme. Can you point to a situation when Canadian taxpayers had to bail out CMHC?

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

I am not going to disagree with anything you have said. But, in response to the poster above, to suggest that UK banks stand heads and shoulders above their Canadian counterparts is just complete tosh.

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

Yes I can. When the Canadian government took $75 billion worth of CMHC's liabilities off it books. All that fuss lately about a $60 billion deficit in one year, and yet this baby just slips on by... Yes the premium is hefty, and that is largely where the $8 billion in the bank comes from. Against $600 billion of potential liability that's 1.3%. Of course none of this is a problem so long as prices remain where they are and there is no way that the liability will be the full $600 billion. But if property prices correct even a small amount it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that we have a problem. The CMHC is not a publicly listed company like Freddie Mae or Fanny Mac were.

If you think about it it's either an ingenious system or it's a potential timebomb. Only time will tell which it is. Britain did not have such a system and as such the government had to nationalize some of the banks, in effect taking the banks bad liabilities onto its own books (ala Northern Rock). The Canadian government has a nice little system where the riskiest loans are actually backed by its own quango (the CMHC) and therefore no banks have to be implicated. Which is not to say that the banks didn't get themselves into a bit of bother, CIBC had big problems with American liabilities and BMO keeps hitting the headlines with potential downgrades, etc.

I never, ever, said that the British banks stood "head and shoulders" above the Canadian banks. That's an unfair assertion. Some of the people who run those banks should be in jail. But what I do believe, and this is just my opinion, is that the consumer-facing side of British banks is much better. We don't have to "buy" banking packs of so many cheques, withdrawls etc per month and we also have far, far greater choice in the marketplace. In Canada the competition is almost non-existent and therefore not much changes, except for the worse. When I was younger we did not have to pay for our banking here. Things changed back in the early nineties to what you see now. It is, what it is, but it wasn't always like this.

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

$600 billion. Are you seriously suggesting that every person in Canada is potentially in the shite to the tune of $20,000?

Again, CMHC has been in operation, I am led to believe, for 60 years, do you have any examples of it taking a large hit?

The "banking packs" that you refer to used to exist in England. I can remember the advert where the customer of (TSB) I believe, walked into the bank and told the manager he didn't want to have to pay for such things anymore.

I agree that there is very little competition between the Canadian banks, but there is very little competition between most things Canadian (airlines, professions, cell phone providers, insurance companies, in fact just about anything)

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

I agree with you there (cell phone providers in particular)!

Yes, the Canadian public is, in theory, potentially in hock for that amount but in reality property prices will never drop to 0! But even a correction of 10% or more will cause mayhem and you will see it, I believe, in higher taxes. As far as I am aware there has not been a default on behalf of the CMHC but its liabilities have nearly doubled in just the past two years. Never in history has it been so critical to Canada's financial system. Have a look at the Globe article I posted the link to yesterday. This is not fringe stuff, it's real.

Re: Why Post Dated Cheques?
 

I wouldn't make that comparison either; there is no moral high ground. Banks behave in the way that they think they can get away within the regulatory framework they operate in.