Why do you want to move to Canada
#346
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,986
Re: Why do you want to move to Canada
My elderly parents always loved White Rock, it reminded them of England in the 1950s.
We could of course talk about being First Nation in Vancouver if we really want to get into racism
#347
Re: Why do you want to move to Canada
Maybe not, but it is still a place where someone from any background can build a life for themselves and their families by taking some modest risks and working hard.
In my experience the barriers of background, accent, education and colour are much less of a factor here, and people are more likely to congratulate you on your success than be bitter or jealous of it.
In my experience the barriers of background, accent, education and colour are much less of a factor here, and people are more likely to congratulate you on your success than be bitter or jealous of it.
In my experience, those that complain about their ability to "get on" on the basis that their accent, their colour, their height, the size of their arse, etc. are looking for reasons to justify the fact they are just not good enough. I was born in the early 1970s. I was taught at school not to be racist, sexist, fattist (failed that one, I simply hate morbidly obese fatties) etc.
I have never thought of anybody's competency to do anything other than on the basis of whether they can do it or not. I would imagine that most of my generation think likewise.
I have never felt that there was any form of ceiling on my ability to "get on" on the basis of my accent, lack of good background, etc. I have frequently asked those that post on this forum and complain about "class" in England to provide examples. To date, no one has been able to do. I invite them to do so now.
Again, in my experience, most of those that complain about the "class" issue in the UK are Volvo driving, Pringle sweater wearers, that feel aggrieved about the fact that their doctor, lawyer, head teacher of their kiddies' school, doesn't want to pop round to their house for Pimms and cucumber sandwiches. They are, usually, the most "classist" people you will ever meet.
#349
Re: Why do you want to move to Canada
Or are you talking about the fact that some white "middle class" person may comment about having to remove another drunken First Nation from a seat on public transport. If so, why is the second one racist? Surely, it is simply a matter of someone commenting upon the rude behaviour of another person, or should First Nations be exempt from any criticism simply because they are First Nation?
#350
Binned by Muderators
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: White Rock BC
Posts: 11,682
Re: Why do you want to move to Canada
We could of course talk about being First Nation in Vancouver if we really want to get into racism
#351
Binned by Muderators
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: White Rock BC
Posts: 11,682
Re: Why do you want to move to Canada
have never thought of anybody's competency to do anything other than on the basis of whether they can do it or not. I would imagine that most of my generation think likewise.
I have never felt that there was any form of ceiling on my ability to "get on" on the basis of my accent, lack of good background, etc. I have frequently asked those that post on this forum and complain about "class" in England to provide examples. To date, no one has been able to do. I invite them to do so now.
Having said that I am quite prepared to accept that lack of achievement can come from within. There are things I did not achieve because I thought there was no point in trying. Maybe I could if I had sufficient determination. And, maybe these things get done in Canada because I don't perceive these barriers - whether they were real or not.
Again, in my experience, most of those that complain about the "class" issue in the UK are Volvo driving, Pringle sweater wearers, that feel aggrieved about the fact that their doctor, lawyer, head teacher of their kiddies' school, doesn't want to pop round to their house for Pimms and cucumber sandwiches. They are, usually, the most "classist" people you will ever meet.
#352
Re: Why do you want to move to Canada
Have you really never been involved in recruitment, when one of the overriding requirement of a candidate is that they will "fit in" to the firm/organization?
Having said that I am quite prepared to accept that lack of achievement can come from within. There are things I did not achieve because I thought there was no point in trying. Maybe I could if I had sufficient determination. And, maybe these things get done in Canada because I don't perceive these barriers - whether they were real or not.
Having said that I am quite prepared to accept that lack of achievement can come from within. There are things I did not achieve because I thought there was no point in trying. Maybe I could if I had sufficient determination. And, maybe these things get done in Canada because I don't perceive these barriers - whether they were real or not.
The "fit" thing, though, IMHO, is a relevant consideration. I am sure that it would apply to a white male wishing to obtain employment as a waiter in an Indian restaurant in the UK.
I wouldn't want a tatooed (facial, for example), shaven headed women as a receptionist in a law firm, just as I am sure that a tatooist, wouldn't want a conservative, suited women as a receptionist. We all seem to accept that those with strangely coloured hair will work in Government.
#353
Binned by Muderators
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: White Rock BC
Posts: 11,682
Re: Why do you want to move to Canada
In my street there are people born in England, Germany, Denmark, Czech Republic (now), Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Israel, Algeria and Quebec. There are a few Canadians as well.
Last edited by JonboyE; Nov 4th 2009 at 8:09 pm. Reason: Forgot The Netherlands. Oh, and Cambodia.
#355
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 396
Re: Why do you want to move to Canada
Diversity isn't necessarily about numbers, but it is a factor. Conversely, Vancouver's ethnic minorities are probably 90% S or SE Asian, who make up nearly 50% of the local population. Is that really diversity when 3 ethnic groups make up the vast majority? There certainly seem to be more Russians etc around now, but the ethnic minorities here remain firmly asian.
- We'll never agree on that point. The US I could agree on, but not here.
#356
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,986
Re: Why do you want to move to Canada
OK, let's talk about it. Are you seriously suggesting that a First Nations doctor would have more difficulty in obtaining a position at the local hospital than a white "middle class" one? If so, why?
Or are you talking about the fact that some white "middle class" person may comment about having to remove another drunken First Nation from a seat on public transport. If so, why is the second one racist? Surely, it is simply a matter of someone commenting upon the rude behaviour of another person, or should First Nations be exempt from any criticism simply because they are First Nation?
Or are you talking about the fact that some white "middle class" person may comment about having to remove another drunken First Nation from a seat on public transport. If so, why is the second one racist? Surely, it is simply a matter of someone commenting upon the rude behaviour of another person, or should First Nations be exempt from any criticism simply because they are First Nation?
In terms of personal examples - I recall hearing a lot of very 'racist' comments from white Canadians in Vancouver about First Nations people when I lived there. I think unfortunately it exists everywhere, but would like to think it is not widespread nor general in either the UK or Canada.
Interestingly, my own encounter with racism came in the UK (though I will of course not generalise from this). A drunk guy shouted some racist abuse at some teenagers riding past on bikes. For a number of obvious reasons it was a pretty nasty situation. I called the police and followed the guy until he was arrested. Follow-up was that my wife and I had to give evidence in court, where the guy was found guilty and fined. Before the event I thought it would feel rather satisfying to see justice be done - and doubtless it was the right thing. However, it came out that the guy had a serious alcohol problem that wasn't being well managed or treated, together with various other problems (all to do with substance abuse and poverty). He didn't even remember what he had done. Of course this doesn't excuse it in any way, but it just ended up being all a rather sad situation for a wider range of reasons than I first thought.
#357
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 468
Re: Why do you want to move to Canada
It's quite justifiable to be concerned about social problems within your immediate community but to make broad generalizations about social pathologies on limited data and examination sounds a little hollow. Secondly, to further use your 'understanding' as justification to move to another country without comprehensive and rigorous comparative analysis strikes many as blinkered at best.
Last edited by SambaDeAmigo; Nov 4th 2009 at 7:38 pm.
#358
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 468
Re: Why do you want to move to Canada
So you are acknowledging that the UK is plagued with bad parents? If Jade Goody, Kerry Katona or Jordan are considered examples to many parents in the country, then yes I'd agree with that. I certainly don't see chavs around here.
Last edited by SambaDeAmigo; Nov 4th 2009 at 7:45 pm.
#359
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Joined: Jul 2007
Location: White Rock BC
Posts: 11,682
Re: Why do you want to move to Canada
- Diversity is about having a significant number of people from different backgrounds, cultures, ethnic backgrounds. If you have a town of 10,000 ethnically homogenous people and one person moves in, who is of a different background, does that make it a diverse place?
Diversity isn't necessarily about numbers, but it is a factor. Conversely, Vancouver's ethnic minorities are probably 90% S or SE Asian, who make up nearly 50% of the local population. Is that really diversity when 3 ethnic groups make up the vast majority? There certainly seem to be more Russians etc around now, but the ethnic minorities here remain firmly asian.
- We'll never agree on that point. The US I could agree on, but not here.
Diversity isn't necessarily about numbers, but it is a factor. Conversely, Vancouver's ethnic minorities are probably 90% S or SE Asian, who make up nearly 50% of the local population. Is that really diversity when 3 ethnic groups make up the vast majority? There certainly seem to be more Russians etc around now, but the ethnic minorities here remain firmly asian.
- We'll never agree on that point. The US I could agree on, but not here.
All I was trying to get across is that Vancouver is a very diverse place if you consider the number of nations and cultures represented here. It is not less diverse because many of the people look vaguely like each other. Nor does the fact that there are relatively few black people around mean that it cannot be a diverse place.
#360
Re: Why do you want to move to Canada
Or do such chavs live elsewhere but, miraculously, descend into "respectable" neighbourhoods each evening, to return to their chavvie neighbourhoods at a later time?