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why buy "Made in China" ?

why buy "Made in China" ?

Old Mar 15th 2010, 5:04 pm
  #151  
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Default Re: why buy "Made in China" ?

Originally Posted by Oakvillian
No back at you; increasingly it really is about the availability of qualified people at any price - <snip>
Well, I wouldn't presume to tell you your own business , but I wonder how typical this is?


I'm not that familiar with the background to the assault on the Bretton Woods agreement, but wasn't that to do with the US administration at the time deciding to decouple the dollar from gold? And the subsequent run on gold in London? Perhaps I misunderstand, but I don't quite see what that has to do with the internet or with outsourcing...
The phrase was shorthand for the move to deregulate the flow of capital which effectively ended the Bretton Woods system and heralded "modern" globalization (and which predated the interwebby).
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Old Mar 15th 2010, 5:34 pm
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Default Re: why buy "Made in China" ?

Originally Posted by jimf
Governments do seem to be relying on the "entrepreneurs" to be able to set up businesses which provide the new employment but the reality is that doesn't seem to be happening. Labour do a lot of talking about encouraging entrepreneurship and people starting their own businesses but in reality it seems to amount to school leavers setting up a pizza delivery shop.
This is because economic policy over the last 10 years has encouraged us to invest in assets rather than wealth creating businesses.
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Old Mar 15th 2010, 5:57 pm
  #153  
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Default Re: why buy "Made in China" ?

Originally Posted by Novocastrian
The phrase was shorthand for the move to deregulate the flow of capital which effectively ended the Bretton Woods system and heralded "modern" globalization (and which predated the interwebby).
Ah, thanks - that makes more sense now. I still don't agree with you, mind
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Old Mar 15th 2010, 6:26 pm
  #154  
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Default Re: why buy "Made in China" ?

Originally Posted by Oakvillian
Ah, thanks - that makes more sense now. I still don't agree with you, mind
Nor I with you

Were you serious BTW... your company pays the same salary and benefits to a computer engineer graduating from say Delhi as from say Waterloo, if they're doing comparable tasks and working in Delhi and Waterloo?
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Old Mar 15th 2010, 6:46 pm
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Default Re: why buy "Made in China" ?

Originally Posted by Novocastrian
Nor I with you

Were you serious BTW... your company pays the same salary and benefits to a computer engineer graduating from say Delhi as from say Waterloo, if they're doing comparable tasks and working in Delhi and Waterloo?
The standard practise is to send the guy from Delhi to work, not in Waterloo perhaps, but in Cincinnati or King of Prussia or Milton Keynes and to pay him what he would earn in Delhi. That's why H1B positions in thrall to Indian swe, I mean consulting firms, are considered hardship posts by the people doing the work. They take the positions, despite having to leave their families in India and live three to a room, in order to gat "American Experience". It's difficult to go from an H1B to legal residence in the US so it's not uncommon to move to Canada instead.
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Old Mar 15th 2010, 8:02 pm
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Default Re: why buy "Made in China" ?

Originally Posted by Novocastrian
Nor I with you

Were you serious BTW... your company pays the same salary and benefits to a computer engineer graduating from say Delhi as from say Waterloo, if they're doing comparable tasks and working in Delhi and Waterloo?
no, that's not quite what I said. The guy in Delhi would earn a comfortable amount by Delhi's standards; if he were posted to Waterloo he would get all sorts of additional allowances and benefits while here as an expat, so that his total package is not very different to a local employee's (there are, of course, significant implications for taxation etc as an expat, which I don't pretend to understand). If the Delhi graduate were to move to Waterloo as a permanent resident and continue to work for the company, then yes, he would be paid the same as a Waterloo graduate.
Originally Posted by dbd33
The standard practise is to send the guy from Delhi to work, not in Waterloo perhaps, but in Cincinnati or King of Prussia or Milton Keynes and to pay him what he would earn in Delhi. That's why H1B positions in thrall to Indian swe, I mean consulting firms, are considered hardship posts by the people doing the work. They take the positions, despite having to leave their families in India and live three to a room, in order to gat "American Experience". It's difficult to go from an H1B to legal residence in the US so it's not uncommon to move to Canada instead.
No, that's not standard practice at all - at least not here, and not today. If a consultant with a family is posted abroad for any significant period (longer than a couple of months, say) then that individual will have the choice to bring their family with them. That's pretty comparable to the conditions in which a Western consultant might be expected to operate. We do not expect our professionals to live three to a room, that's just so much nonsense. Some staff - typically younger and unmarried - may choose to share an apartment, in much the same way that I shared a rental flat with a couple of colleagues when I was younger.

I don't know any colleagues in the US on H1-B who consider themselves on a hardship posting. US visa restrictions do mean that spouses on an H4 visa cannot work, so a dual income family may lose an income stream, but that is a result of US immigration policy and not a company's pay policy.

Last edited by Oakvillian; Mar 15th 2010 at 8:04 pm.
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Old Mar 15th 2010, 8:16 pm
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Default Re: why buy "Made in China" ?

Originally Posted by Oakvillian
no, that's not quite what I said. The guy in Delhi would earn a comfortable amount by Delhi's standards; if he were posted to Waterloo he would get all sorts of additional allowances and benefits while here as an expat, so that his total package is not very different to a local employee's (there are, of course, significant implications for taxation etc as an expat, which I don't pretend to understand). If the Delhi graduate were to move to Waterloo as a permanent resident and continue to work for the company, then yes, he would be paid the same as a Waterloo graduate.

No, that's not standard practice at all - at least not here, and not today. If a consultant with a family is posted abroad for any significant period (longer than a couple of months, say) then that individual will have the choice to bring their family with them. That's pretty comparable to the conditions in which a Western consultant might be expected to operate. We do not expect our professionals to live three to a room, that's just so much nonsense. Some staff - typically younger and unmarried - may choose to share an apartment, in much the same way that I shared a rental flat with a couple of colleagues when I was younger.
.
The company I work for has off shore development teams and the processes match this (i.e. Oaks, not dbd's) description pretty closely. Foreign workers that are lucky enough (and this is how they see it) to get ex-pat postings usually get put in fancy serviced apartments and either have their salaries adjusted or get given a per diem depending on how long the posting is.

Last edited by Alan2005; Mar 15th 2010 at 8:18 pm.
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Old Mar 15th 2010, 9:07 pm
  #158  
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Default Re: why buy "Made in China" ?

Originally Posted by Oakvillian
No back at you; increasingly it really is about the availability of qualified people at any price - labour cost doesn't come into it. ....

Originally Posted by Oakvillian
no, that's not quite what I said. The guy in Delhi would earn a comfortable amount by Delhi's standards;
Could you fly that by me again? Now you're saying that even though it costs the company say 80% less to employ the guy in Delhi, they only do it because there aren't enough grads here?

In the same vein in this country we have been working with industry bodies, the Canadian government, and a number of University and College administrations, to advise on how to halt the staggering decline in enrollment for engineering and other technology degree courses in Canada.
That seems rather superfluous given the above as jimf has already stated. But I suppose somebody's making a buck as a consultant.
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