Alan2005

Plenty of people in prison for murder never intended to kill.

roguetide

Normally is a key word. The Tazer situation is abnormal.

Fair enough - agree to disagree. I do understand where you're coming from Alan and I'm sorry if I came off as rude, .

Alan2005

No problems and likewise.

JonboyE

A definition of murder:

Noun

* S: (n) murder, slaying, execution (unlawful premeditated killing of a human being by a human being)

Verb

* S: (v) murder, slay, hit, dispatch, bump off, off, polish off, remove (kill intentionally and with premeditation) "The mafia boss ordered his enemies murdered"

We can say:
* a man died unnecessarily, and that is a tragedy
* the police probably acted with more force than was necessary
* there is a strong case that tazers should be used only when the other alternative is a sidearm
* it was not murder.

act1980

Is it really? It doesn't taste a bit like cheese Tastes yummy! Cinnabon gets my vote

Lychee

Hrm... not sure then. I have't had cinnabon in a while. Let's see if there's anything on their website...



... according to the website it's apparently cream cheese frosting. Weird. It looks like regular confectionery sugar + butter topping to me!

act1980

Hey!! That's not fair you got my mouth watering now!

JLT

Humour or rather lack of!

flashman

There's humour but it's different. Corner Gas, Little Mosque on the Prairie, etc. probably would'nt fly in the UK

dbd33

Surely they don't fly in Canada either. They're on the TV because the government requires it but they don't make people laugh the way say Jon Stewart or Two And A Half Men or Seinfeld do.

Steve_P

They may not make you laugh but then I'm sure not much Canadian does.

dbd33

Sean Majunder made me laugh, the Newfie-Paki thing was hilarious. One trick, should have retired when it got old, but, for a year, he was Canadian and very funny.

triumphguy

IMNSHO All those shows are crap!

This guy's funny:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=setLfUYi8cc&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kevPUQ7L_Yw&NR=1

dboy

I agree. I believe you are referring to the pension scandal. Cops are like plumbers some good, some not so good. The taser incident is a completly different kettle of fish however.

dboy

I apologise in advance for the length of the following post. I dont expect any of the public to truly understand the taser incident. You have to be a cop to know how use of force works and the role the taser is supposed to play. I;m not biased. If our members screwed up I would be the first to point fingers. The taser is supposed to allow police to take control with out using force, thus limiting harm to the individual. It clearly failed in this case.

Anyway here goes what is both in my mind and in my heart. We are not murderers. I know what murderers are and they are not these members:

It’s easy, to have the benefit of a video on You Tube that one can
rewind time and time again, go frame by frame, pause, and zoom in, to
scrutinize and criticize. Be honest with yourself how many times have
you watched or learned something in the media about the Robert
Dziekanski taser incident and have gone back for another look? I have.
Frame by frame, over a number of hours, the perceptions of the four
members who lived this face to face, not on video, are being armchair
quarter-backed.

There will be endless public hearings and inquiries to assess what
should have been done or what could have been done differently. Medical
reports, pathology reports, toxicology reports witness statements and
volumes of other evidence will be poured over and scrutinized in detail
to assist in calling into question the decisions of our members, none of
whom I know personally, who responded that night. But we must realize
that these four members had only seconds to decide what to do and could
only draw on their training, equipment and experience, however flawed
they may have been. Their take on what was unfolding before them may
have been quite different than ours, absent the repeated viewings of You
Tube. They had to act quickly, summing up what was happening and how
best to respond under the circumstances with the public’s and their
best interests at heart.

We need the Braidwood Inquiry, since at the end of the day, someone is
dead and the police as an organization must be accountable to the public
it serves and much needs to be asked of tasers and the role they play in
our lives. Could things have been done differently? Yes. Are there
lessons to be learned? Yes. Were the member’s initial actions wrong? I
don’t believe they were, although I can’t presume to know what was
going through the member’s minds, and it really is their perception
that counts in the end. If they truly believed that Robert Dziekanski
represented a threat and that he was none compliant, then they acted
appropriately. Would I have done things differently? Perhaps.

We owe it not only to the public we serve but to the police who serve
us to find answers - to ensure that we receive the best training and the
best equipment possible. We need to benefit from better policy and
clearer use of force guidelines, we need to have faith in the tools that
we are given, tools that we are told will save not take lives.

Our members went to work that night not to kill but to do what the
public expects - to keep our communities safe. Our members were called
to act. They did. They remained calm and acted with professionalism.
Their actions were not cruel, callous or malicious. Nor were their
actions evil or calculated. They never intended to kill, only to take
control. To suggest that they are murderers who acted cruelly with no
regard for another’s life is simply appalling and incomprehensible.

Tragic as, Robert Dziekanski’s death is, the fact remains that he was
not acting as you or I would have that night, he was acting violently
like a madman destroying property in an airport, he was disheveled,
sweating profusely he had a crazed look, he was irrational, he was
combative/resistant (yes walking or turning away is resistant). All are
possible indicators of excited delirium, mental health issues, or a
drug induced high - all of which are indicators that police officers
rely on as part of their overall risk assessment and the decision to
respond accordingly with the appropriate amount of force. Have you ever
fought an individual with excited delirium, or a person undergoing a
violent psychotic mental episode? How about cocaine psychosis? I have.
They can possess incredible strength, even women. They can’t be
reasoned with, even those that speak
English.
I’ve sat by silent for much of the back and forth rumblings while our
members are called murderers and their actions questioned and critiqued
by those who are not qualified to do so, not allowing myself to get
drawn in. The RCMP, as always, remains predictably silent not wanting to
appear to be taking sides, afraid of criticism and personal attack.

Sometime after the incident I was in Vancouver where a rally was taking
place in front of the art gallery. People chanted hatefully about the
RCMP, called us murderers, compared us to torturers, demanded swift
justice, said they were ashamed to be a part of Canada and compared the
RCMP to the Third Reich. They held hands and sang Ave Maria, others held
up placards containing Robert Dziekanski’s picture, a happier Robert,
full of life, his face smiling down on the crowds assembled there that
day. Just days before the rally, Cst. Douglass Scott, a 20 year old
Mountie from Brockville, Ontario was brutally murdered, shot to death,
and left to die alone on the side of a frozen highway in Nunavut. No one
held his picture above the crowds, no one held hands. No one sang Ave
Maria. I find it disgusting the number of bleeding hearts who come out
of the woodwork when someone dies at the hands of the police but never
utter a word when a police officer is slain protecting us. We ought to
be ashamed.

I too was ashamed to be a part of Canada that day, but for completely
different reasons. I, and others like me, will always answer the call,
regardless of what the public may think of us. We put our lives in harms
way - we run in when others run out- we will do the best we can with
what limited information we have, what our training has prepared us for
and what ever resources are available to us, it’s what the public
expects and what we signed up to do. We know the risks and we accept,
even embrace them.

Cst. Douglas Scott, Cst. Dennis Strongquill, Cst. Marc Bourdages, Cst.
Robin Cameron, Cst, Brock Myrol, Cst. Leo Johnston, Cst. Peter Schieman,
Cst. Anthony Gordon, Cst. Chris Worden, and Cpl. Jim Galloway who
answered the call recently won’t be coming home, all murdered, all
shot to death by callous, malicious, evil people. I’m sure that they
are proud to have given their lives for what they believed - as would I.
To call our members murderers and to compare them to members of the
Third Reich destroys the sacrifices our fallen members and their
families have endured.

I shall not say anymore on this subject, what more is there to say?
Regardless of what your opinions are about what happened that fateful
night at the Vancouver International Airport, I make but a simple
request, that you don’t call our members murderers. Nothing could be
further from the truth. If only we could ask Cst. Douglas Scott what a
murderer is, he sadly knows first hand but has been silenced for
eternity.

Maintiens le Droit