wolstie

Does this apply to agreements made under the Consumer Credit Act though?

Almost Canadian

Canada is outside of the jurisdiction. The jurisdiction is England and Wales.

If you scroll to the bottom, you will see that, if a person is served in Canada, they have 22 days to respond.

It is best practice to serve anybody, in any jurisdiction, personally. That way, the Court can be assured that they knew of the proceedings.

Almost Canadian

I suspect it makes no difference, unless one wishes to argue that the agreement itself is invalid. The only issue for the Court to determine is: Is the amount claimed owed?

Why do you think it wouldn't apply?

Juggernaut1064

wolstie

That the contract between lender and borrower is under UK law. A Canadian court wouldn't be able to hear it.

May be different for big businesses that borrow / lend outside of the CCA.

I concede though (genuinely), it seems you are the expert. Just offering my two cents

Almost Canadian

It appears that you are confusing the two processes. First, the creditor applies for a judgment in England. That is obtained - so the Court accepts that the debt is owed (after a trial or by default). The creditor can then use the enforcement provisions in England to try to get paid.

If the debtor then moves outside of England and Wales, the creditor then applies to have the English judgment recognised in the jurisdiction in which the debtor now lives. Let's say that is Canada.

The creditor simply applies to have the English judgment registered in the appropriate Province. If s/he is successful, the creditor now has judgments for the same debt in England and a Canadian Province. The creditor can now use the enforcement provision of that Province to try to get paid. The court in Canada does not care how the debt was incurred (as that has been determined by the English Court) it simply provides a mechanism for enforcement within that particular Province.

Hopefully, this makes sense.

wolstie

That's a great explanation thanks.

In light of this, my original comment that a creditor is unable to obtain a judgement (and so start the process) against a non-resident, is correct?

I don't disagree that you can be pursued in Canada for a debt, my understanding is that in order for this to happen, the judgement had to be made against you while you were in England or Wales, prior to moving away.

Almost Canadian

No, it's incorrect. It is possible to start proceedings against a person not resident in England in England and serve them with the proceedings wherever they live in the world.

wolstie

Thanks.

This seems to contradict the justice.gov.uk site, which has a page citing the rules for those wishing to start a claim

PRACTICE DIRECTION 7C – PRODUCTION CENTRE - Civil Procedure Rules

Claims which may not be issued through the Centre

2.1 The Centre will not issue any claim form which is to be issued in the High Court.

2.2 The Centre will only issue a claim form if the claim is for a specified sum of money less than £100,000.

2.3 The Centre will not issue any of the following types of claim –

(1) a claim against more than two defendants;

(2) a claim against two defendants where a different sum is claimed against each of them;

(3) a claim against the Crown;

(4) a claim for an amount in a foreign currency;

(5) a claim where either party is known to be a child or protected party within Part 21;

(6) a claim where the claimant is a legally assisted person within the meaning of the Legal Aid Act 1988;

(7) a claim where the claimant’s address for service as it appears on the claim form is not in the United Kingdom;

(7A) a claim where the defendant's address for service as it appears on the claim form is not in England and Wales;(8) a claim which is to be issued under Part 8.

dbd33

What's the "PRODUCTION CENTRE"? It doesn't seem to be the only mechanism by which claims may be started as this is a list of claims it doesn't deal with.

In any case, all this focus on evading one's obligations when moving to Canada fails to consider the possibility of wanting to return to the UK. It'd be a bugger to go just to watch the Cup Final and to have your tickets seized because you still haven't paid that Barclaycard bill.

macadian

Very true dbd. One never knows what may come about. My initial reaction when I was chased for that disputed 14 quid was 'screw them'. However I got to thinking that if I ever move back to the UK, my credit rating could well have been compromised by such a small sum. I did not feel the principle I was holding to was worth future agrivation on returning. As the old saying goes, life is compromise.

wolstie

The Production Centre, I believe, is Northampton County Court, which is where the majority of CCJ's relating to unpaid balances on finance taken out under the Consumer Credit Act, originate.

dbd33

Then doesn't it follow that, if you were pursuing someone for a debt and their address for service wasn't in the United Kingdom, you just wouldn't do it in Northampton?

I would have thought that the debtor having fled the country would mean that the case was not among the majority of cases. If you were in Northampton, you might have to go to Milton Keynes or even Watford, but then the majority of creditors aren't in Northampton to begin with.

Almost Canadian

The Production Centre was not in existence when I stopped working as a solicitor in England in 2007. It appears to simply be an alternative way to commence proceedings. The Rules regarding commencing a claim are contained in Part 7: Part 7. I can assure you that this permit the Defendant to reside outside of the jurisdiction.

Scribble

eccept that after 6 years or so, the credit companies don;t report on old debts so you would probably have a good rating.