Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Canada
Reload this Page >

Watch out if you need a licence to work

Watch out if you need a licence to work

Old Oct 30th 2004, 2:19 pm
  #91  
mañana is my busiest day
 
oceanMDX's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Cabo San Lucas, Mexico
Posts: 2,636
oceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: Watch out if you need a licence to work

Originally Posted by Biiiiink
According to the 2003 Alberta Wage and Salary Survey, dentists in our province earned an average salary of $138,900 per year - this isn’t the megabucks everybody thinks dentists are earning which seems to have passed into legend on both sides of the Atlantic. In fact, if we’re really comparing like with like (i.e. private dentistry in the UK with private dentistry in Canada) then this salary is almost exactly Mr B’s renumeration when he was in private UK practice in East Anglia. No great draw in going to Canada and spending a small fortune and 2yrs loss of earnings to “retrain� for foreigners then, is there?!
That statistic means almost nothing since professionals in Alberta are permitted to shelter income within "professional corporations". In other words, they can leave hundreds of thousands of dollars income in their professional corporation and only take out $138,900/year (average) in personal income. Their real total net income may be $338,900/year (or whatever). In addition, that's only a "survey" that you are quoting! How were the numbers collected? They don't appear to be from tax files so are very questionable in the first place.

Ocean - if you think dentists are scamming and milking the system, report them!
This problem has already been reported in media exposés in Canada. A reporter will approach the dentist and he will run away from the camera....

Last edited by oceanMDX; Oct 30th 2004 at 2:24 pm.
oceanMDX is offline  
Old Oct 30th 2004, 4:05 pm
  #92  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Biiiiink's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Location: Windsor, ON; Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,713
Biiiiink has a reputation beyond reputeBiiiiink has a reputation beyond reputeBiiiiink has a reputation beyond reputeBiiiiink has a reputation beyond reputeBiiiiink has a reputation beyond reputeBiiiiink has a reputation beyond reputeBiiiiink has a reputation beyond reputeBiiiiink has a reputation beyond reputeBiiiiink has a reputation beyond reputeBiiiiink has a reputation beyond reputeBiiiiink has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Watch out if you need a licence to work

OceanMDX,

No matter what dentists actually earn, the public won't believe it and will add a few zeros The figure is from the 2003 Alberta Wage and Salary Survey, the methodology used is here - http://www.alis.gov.ab.ca/wageinfo/C...age=WageSurvey The data is only as good as those who respond but it's as accurate as any other survey. Surely if anyone pays themself a falsely low salary as you are claiming, and makes overcontributions, that would have tax consequences? Glaswegian made the point there were no deductibles in Canada, putting money in an RCA is exactly the same as having deductible pension contributions in the UK as far as I can see.

Point remains, these wages are not overly attractive to a dentist who can obtain a free education and similar wages in UK private practice or elsewhere. Therefore the argument "no wonder dentists want to come to Canada and clean up" doesn't hold up. They should be given the chance to take the license exam. If Canada is worried about money, make 'em pay the equivalent 2yrs tuition fee to take the exam - but making them take 2yrs out to do a clinically pointless course is just that, pointless.

If you're really saying dentists you know of are "scamming", "milking" and "running away" it's your duty as an citizen to take the evidence you have to the appropriate licensing board and report it.

Biiiiink





Originally Posted by oceanMDX
That statistic means almost nothing since professionals in Alberta are permitted to shelter income within "professional corporations". In other words, they can leave hundreds of thousands of dollars income in their professional corporation and only take out $138,900/year (average) in personal income. Their real total net income may be $338,900/year (or whatever). In addition, that's only a "survey" that you are quoting! How were the numbers collected? They don't appear to be from tax files so are very questionable in the first place.



This problem has already been reported in media exposés in Canada. A reporter will approach the dentist and he will run away from the camera....
Biiiiink is offline  
Old Oct 30th 2004, 4:24 pm
  #93  
mañana is my busiest day
 
oceanMDX's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Cabo San Lucas, Mexico
Posts: 2,636
oceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: Watch out if you need a licence to work

Originally Posted by Biiiiink
OceanMDX,

No matter what dentists actually earn, the public won't believe it and will add a few zeros The figure is from the 2003 Alberta Wage and Salary Survey, the methodology used is here - http://www.alis.gov.ab.ca/wageinfo/C...age=WageSurvey The data is only as good as those who respond but it's as accurate as any other survey. Surely if anyone pays themself a falsely low salary as you are claiming, and makes overcontributions, that would have tax consequences? Glaswegian made the point there were no deductibles in Canada, putting money in an RCA is exactly the same as having deductible pension contributions in the UK as far as I can see.
Sorry, but you are missing the point entirely. Professionals in Alberta don't pay themselves "a falsely low salary". They make use the "professional corporation" to do tax planning - or basically defer their taxes. I know, I used to own a professional corporation myself. If I made $500,000 in a year, I would bonus out $300,000 to myself (and pay personal income tax on that) and leave the remainder in the professional corporation which only paid tax at the much lower small business - Canadian owned - corporation rate on the first $200,000.

The methodology of that survey renders it unreliable. It's totally voluntary, and people can put in any figure they want.


If you're really saying dentists you know of are "scamming", "milking" and "running away" it's your duty as an citizen to take the evidence you have to the appropriate licensing board and report it.

Biiiiink
I don't have a Canadian dentist - so I don't know of any one personally scamming the system. The issue has been covered in the media - several times - over the past. According to my former accountant - who has dentists as his clients - private insurance coverage has given dentists in Canada "the right to print money". A lazy dentist can make $250,000/year in Canada. A successful hard worker will make $500,000 a year and up. My accountant had one making (after all expenses were paid) $1.4 million - and that was 10 years ago. Their fees have only gone up since then. Tell me do you think the dentist making $1.4 million wants to report that fact on some voluntary survey when fee negotiations with government are only a few months away? Hell no - he'll remove a zero and say he's making $140,000.

Last edited by oceanMDX; Oct 30th 2004 at 4:57 pm.
oceanMDX is offline  
Old Oct 30th 2004, 4:27 pm
  #94  
Forum Regular
 
Higgy's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: Maple Ridge BC
Posts: 123
Higgy is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Watch out if you need a licence to work

Originally Posted by oceanMDX
Sorry, but you are missing the point entirely. Professionals in Alberta don't pay themselves "a falsely low salary". They make use the "professional corporation" to do tax planning - or basically defer their taxes. I know, I used to own a professional corporation myself. If I made $500,000 in a year, I would bonus out $300,000 to myself (and pay personal income tax on that) and leave the remainder in the professional corporation which only paid tax at the much lower small business - Canadian owned - corporation rate on the first $200,000.

The methodology of that survey renders it unreliable. It's totally voluntary, and people can put in any figure they want.




I don't have a Canadian dentist - so I don't know of any one personally scamming the system. The issue has been covered in the media - several times - over the past. According to my former accountant - who has dentists as his clients - private insurance coverage has given dentists in Canada "the right to print money". A lazy dentist can make $250,000/year in Canada. A successful hard worker will make $500,000 a year and up. My accountant had one making (after all expenses were paid) $1.4 million - and that was 10 years ago. Their fees have only gone up since then.


Think i need to change job. Would a pair of pliers bottle of whiskey and a dewalt drill be enough to get started in dentistry?
Higgy is offline  
Old Oct 30th 2004, 4:28 pm
  #95  
Forum Regular
 
Gaz_F's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Mango Hill, Australia
Posts: 213
Gaz_F will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Watch out if you need a licence to work

Originally Posted by oceanMDX
I would bonus out $300,000 to myself (and pay personal income tax on that) and leave the remainder in the professional corporation which only paid tax at the much lower small business - Canadian owned - corporation rate on the first $200,000.
Does this mean that there are differing rates of business/corporation taxes dependant on whether the owner is Canadian born or not?
Or am I missing something?

Thanks.
Gaz_F is offline  
Old Oct 30th 2004, 4:31 pm
  #96  
mañana is my busiest day
 
oceanMDX's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Cabo San Lucas, Mexico
Posts: 2,636
oceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: Watch out if you need a licence to work

Originally Posted by Higgy
Think i need to change job. Would a pair of pliers bottle of whiskey and a dewalt drill be enough to get started in dentistry?
No,but it would be perfect for an orthopedic surgeon. :scared:
oceanMDX is offline  
Old Oct 30th 2004, 4:36 pm
  #97  
mañana is my busiest day
 
oceanMDX's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Cabo San Lucas, Mexico
Posts: 2,636
oceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: Watch out if you need a licence to work

Originally Posted by Gaz&Paula
Does this mean that there are differing rates of business/corporation taxes dependant on whether the owner is Canadian born or not?
Or am I missing something?

Thanks.
My knowledge on this is from 1995 (when I retired) and before that date - things may have changed.

Where someone was born was never the issue, since you don't have to be born in Canada to hold Canadian citizenship. But to qualify for the small business corporate rate (on the first $200,000 of income) the business had to be Canadian owned according to my accountant.
oceanMDX is offline  
Old Oct 30th 2004, 4:43 pm
  #98  
Forum Regular
 
Gaz_F's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Mango Hill, Australia
Posts: 213
Gaz_F will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Watch out if you need a licence to work

Originally Posted by oceanMDX
My knowledge on this is from 1995 (when I retired) and before that date - things may have changed.

Where someone was born was never the issue, since you don't have to be born in Canada to hold Canadian citizenship. But to qualify for the small business corporate rate (on the first $200,000 of income) the business had to be Canadian owned according to my accountant.
Thanks for the clarification.
Gaz_F is offline  
Old Oct 30th 2004, 5:56 pm
  #99  
Glaswegian
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Watch out if you need a licence to work

Originally Posted by oceanMDX
My knowledge on this is from 1995 (when I retired) and before that date - things may have changed.

Where someone was born was never the issue, since you don't have to be born in Canada to hold Canadian citizenship. But to qualify for the small business corporate rate (on the first $200,000 of income) the business had to be Canadian owned according to my accountant.
Under Albertan legislation you have to be "Canadian" to incorporate ... although for the purposes of incorporation a PR is a Canadian
 
Old Oct 30th 2004, 6:51 pm
  #100  
mañana is my busiest day
 
oceanMDX's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Cabo San Lucas, Mexico
Posts: 2,636
oceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: Watch out if you need a licence to work

Originally Posted by Glaswegian
Under Albertan legislation you have to be "Canadian" to incorporate ... although for the purposes of incorporation a PR is a Canadian
Thanks for that info. I was thinking it would not be fair to exclude a PR.

Tell me, has the $200,000 "limit" (for the low tax rate) been increased? What is the limit now?
oceanMDX is offline  
Old Oct 30th 2004, 7:04 pm
  #101  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Toontje's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: 30°16'29" North 097°44'26" West
Posts: 22,151
Toontje has a reputation beyond reputeToontje has a reputation beyond reputeToontje has a reputation beyond reputeToontje has a reputation beyond reputeToontje has a reputation beyond reputeToontje has a reputation beyond reputeToontje has a reputation beyond reputeToontje has a reputation beyond reputeToontje has a reputation beyond reputeToontje has a reputation beyond reputeToontje has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Watch out if you need a licence to work

Originally Posted by oceanMDX
Thanks for that info. I was thinking it would not be fair to exclude a PR.

Tell me, has the $200,000 "limit" (for the low tax rate) been increased? What is the limit now?
Congratulations!
That was your 1000th post!
Toontje is offline  
Old Oct 30th 2004, 7:19 pm
  #102  
Glaswegian
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Watch out if you need a licence to work

Originally Posted by oceanMDX
Thanks for that info. I was thinking it would not be fair to exclude a PR.

Tell me, has the $200,000 "limit" (for the low tax rate) been increased? What is the limit now?
No idea ... it's too hard to get established as an IT contractor until you know a lot of people ... once you're known in the business community, it's too hard running a business on the side without it coming to the attention of your employer ... but then again, it's easier to jump ship to a better paid job, so who needs to work as a contractor to get the bucks?
 
Old Oct 30th 2004, 7:55 pm
  #103  
mañana is my busiest day
 
oceanMDX's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Cabo San Lucas, Mexico
Posts: 2,636
oceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to beholdoceanMDX is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: Watch out if you need a licence to work

Originally Posted by Toontje
Congratulations!
That was your 1000th post!
Thanks, I didn't even notice.
oceanMDX is offline  
Old Oct 30th 2004, 8:11 pm
  #104  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 481
daisymoll is a name known to alldaisymoll is a name known to alldaisymoll is a name known to alldaisymoll is a name known to alldaisymoll is a name known to alldaisymoll is a name known to alldaisymoll is a name known to alldaisymoll is a name known to alldaisymoll is a name known to alldaisymoll is a name known to alldaisymoll is a name known to all
Default Re: Watch out if you need a licence to work

Originally Posted by ukjo
Because she is probably more qualified that a lot of people working in her field. How would you feel if you were in a job where you worked and trained hard for 10 years or more and then youre told youve got to start at the very bottom of the ladder again and completely retrain? A bit naffed off maybe???? I am in a position where I cant work with my Uk qualification in my career without retaking exams here. Thats fine, its not as though I have to retrain in anything but Mrs Liftman is a hell of lot more qualified with her job yet has to get past all this redtape before they can think of the redtape from immigration. It sucks!!!
##

Here, here. I (husband of Daisymoll) had exactly the same experience - 7 years experience, doing EXACTLY the same job in NS as in the UK but was rejected for membership to professional geoscientists (PGEO) and told to not even bother applying to be registered as PENG. VEry frustrating when collegues in NS had degrees in things such as Biomedical Engineering but were working as PENG in Environmental Engineering. How does that work?

Anyhow, going back to ON this time and they aren't as fussed about registration to PGEO/PENG as those in NS seemed to be. Bit of job protectionism I think.

If you don't want skilled immigrants, don't ask for them.
daisymoll is offline  
Old Oct 31st 2004, 6:37 pm
  #105  
Glaswegian
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Watch out if you need a licence to work

Originally Posted by Biiiiink
OceanMDX,

Glaswegian made the point there were no deductibles in Canada,
I did not say this - you misinterpreted! There are vastly more deductibles in Canada than in the UK.

I was referring to the fact that a few years ago the UK Inland Revenue told a whole business sector that their deductible fees were restricted to 5% of gross income!

Mrs G
 

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.