ann m

I'm sure we have discussed this before, but I have grave reservations about signing the following for a school trip ....

"...I am aware that ABC Company Camp provides risk-taking and potentially hazardous outdoor pursuit programs, including, but not limited to rafting, canoe-trips, rock climbing, swimming, high and low rope challenge courses, teepee living, hikes, mountain and overnight camping, transportation to and from such activities, activities that involved physical activity and the possibility of injury resulting from such activity. In addition, I ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ABC COMPANY CAMP FACILITY CONTAINS PHYSICAL HAZARDS THAT MAY RESULT IN INJURY OR DEATH TO PERSONS OR DAMAGE TO PROPERTY ON OR AT THE FACILITY. (Their capital letters and bold)

I acknowledge that it is the policy of ABC Company Camp to take all reasonable precautions with respect to such activities and to provide a safe environment.

As parent of (child), I freely consent to all such risks and fully assume all responsibility for the possibility and related costs of personal injury, death, disability, property damage or loss resulting thereof, howsoever caused, including negligence, with the sole exception being gross negligence on the part of ABC Company, their members, agents, employees and directors.

I further waive and release any and all claims that (the child) or I have or may have in the future, on my own behalf and on behalf of (the child), against ABC Company as a result of the participation of (the child) at ABC Company Camp.

This consent shall be effective and binding on (the child), heirs, next of kin, executors and administrators of myself and (the child).

I HAVE READ AND UNDERSTOOD THIS CONSENT AND I AM AWARE THAT BY SIGNING IT I AM WAIVING CERTAIN LEGAL RIGHTS WHICH I, THE CHILD AND OUR HERIRS, NEXT OF KIN, EXECUTORS OR ADMINISTRATORS MAY HAVE."



That's well-written, isn't it? No room for me to mis-understand it. They have made particular effort to capitalize and bold text for me.

I accept certain risks of course - but I feel like I am signing my life away here and that if staff or teachers f*** up - well, tough!

Negligence and gross negligence - mmmmm.

Any thoughts?

Zoe Bell

Hmmmm looks suspiciously like waivers for the trips I'm currently organizing for our school

Two things

One , they can get you to sign it , whether it's legally enforceable is another matter

Two if you read it , you are not releasing them from
Liability due to gross negligence , if anything happened it would be for a court to decide what constitutes gross negligence , so you are no worse off


And thirdly ( a bit tongue in cheek) as a person who's currently trying to collate and collect several hundred of these , just sign the damn thing already so I can update my records !!!

jimf

This sort of thing seems to be pretty standard here - paintballing, climbing, caving, karate etc. Even mrs jimf had to sign one to help at the book sale I think. The irony of course is that H&S is years if not decades behind here. I remember a school trip where they went off in the yellow buses 3 on each pair of seats with no seat belts. After signing a twp page disclaimer friends from the UK got an incredulous reaction after they asked for helmuts for pony riding.

Zoe Bell

Personally I don't think " being behind the uk in terms of health and safety"
Is such a bad thing

I like the fact that the kids I see everyday are allowed to be kids , complete with playground to hang upside down on

I like that outdoor fountains become ice rinks in the winter without a public inquiry into how many cut knees might ensue

I don't agree with the three o. A seat thing with school buses but the seatbelt thing is a contentious issue with several opinions. One being that having 48 children unable to free themselves in the event of a crash is a bad thing

I admit I haven't done my own research into this to see what the stats say

ann m

Yeah, sorry about that.

I think this waiver just seems even more "yeah, well, we'll try our best not to hurt your kid, but if we do, well sorry about that. Next."

Steve_P

The school board lawyers have to have something to do...don't they?

Coffeepot

I just signed one of those for a residential trip for our 10 year old here in the Uk, didn't read anything like that, I wrote on the parents special notes good luck getting him to do any of the above, ie rock climbing, grass skiing, jumping of off one of those high tower things etc my boy does not like being out of his comfort zone, and he is scared of heights.

Almost Canadian

They are legally enforceable. The best defence against them is to state that you signed it without reading it and the wide ranging nature of them wasn't known to you - a bit difficult in light of the steps they have taken.

You have the option to sign them and lose your right to sue, or not sign them, retaining your right to sue but, likely, ensuring your children do not take part in the activity.

The only thing that makes such things not legally enforceable in England and Wales is section 2(1) of the Unfair Contract Terms Act (unless it has been replaced by a similar piece of legislation). Nothing similar exists in Alberta so normal rules of contract apply.

Here's an example of a case that looks at such issues: Waiver of liability case

ann m

Thanks AC - I think this is what we discussed before.

Well, I've signed it and sent Daughter Number Two off with it. (Zoe would be proud of me).

I am still not happy with it, but I've told if she hurts herself, I'll kill her, so that's alright then

jimf

I was told that in the UK organisations can't use a waiver to get out of their obligation of duty of care. Is that what the unfair contract terms act does?

The particular waiver the OP had to sign seems to have a sentence saying the company has a policy to take all reasonable precautions and maintain a safe environment. It then goes on to say that the parent waives the right to claim for negligence against the company. Would the average person be expected to know what constitutes negligence?

ann m

Most people will accept cuts and buises, a lost tooth, a broken bone.

But if my child falls off a rope because two of the staff went out the back to have a smoke, where is the line? If my kid dies because a rope broke because it wasn't properly maintained, is that gross negligence? A court will decide I guess.

I'm not your average worry-pot, really, I am not. I accept risks, we all do - but I guess the wording of this one is more precise and "cover-thy-backside" than I've noticed before.

Zoe Bell

I don't think you are being unreasonable per se. After all the time to be asking questions is before this stuff happens , not after

I don't know if it is any consolation that all the release forms seem to be similar. If you want I can PM you the one I'm currently demanding parents sign !!

I don't wanna post it on here because it names names !

Almost Canadian

UK organisations can attempt to limit liability in whatever way they wish, and whether they will be successful depends upon what the common law says about such things (reasonableness, contra proferentum - assessing against the position of the drafter, notice etc.). For example, the whole "you park your vehicle in our car park at your own risk ..." type clauses. S 2(1) states that is it impossible to exclude liability for personal injuries caused by negligence.

It doesn't matter whether the precautions were reasonable or not, the waiver excludes the ability to sue, full stop. A judge would have to decide upon what is reasonable, the waiver prevents such an action getting off the ground. They are, normally, a complete defence. Don't forget, these are contracts. You agree to the terms or you don't, your choice.

jimf

So the law in the UK ensures that negligence can't be excluded but in Canada that isn't the case?

Almost Canadian

Yes, with the qualification that it is only damages for death or personal injuries caused by negligence that one cannot exclude in England and Wales. If it is damage to property, England and Wales also allows the exclusion of liability, so long as it is "reasonable".

There are additional rules in England and Wales for consumer contract and, Europe wide, there are additional rules under what used to be the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations.