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Visitors Visa on one way ticket?

Visitors Visa on one way ticket?

Old May 3rd 2013, 4:33 pm
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Default Re: Visitors Visa on one way ticket?

Originally Posted by cushdee
Great News!!
Do you think it would be best to mention that she is due to get her own LMO but hasnt been cleared yet and she has to go for a interview first. Or Just say that she is visiting me for a month and then returning to the uk and then deciding on the "months holiday" whether or not she is going to come over with me in the future?
Personally, I would have the ticket out of Canada, so when thy question you , you can show the return flight. Unless she actually has a work permit or PR, the possibility of getting one, or going for an interview is not going to sway the decision of the check in clerk as to whether she gets on or not. As for CBSA, I would wonder if it would make it harder to get in, as it would show that she is trying to get work and raises the question as to whether she would actually leave when it comes down to it.
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Old May 3rd 2013, 4:38 pm
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Default Re: Visitors Visa on one way ticket?

Originally Posted by Aviator
Personally, I would have the ticket out of Canada, so when thy question you , you can show the return flight. Unless she actually has a work permit or PR, the possibility of getting one, or going for an interview is not going to sway the decision of the check in clerk as to whether she gets on or not. As for CBSA, I would wonder if it would make it harder to get in, as it would show that she is trying to get work and raises the question as to whether she would actually leave when it comes down to it.
Ok

So do you think the best option to do is purchase another Single Flight back to the uk say 4 weeks after entering.

Taking a copy of my Work permit and saying to the CBSA that shes just visiting for a month to help me settle into canada. because all in all this might be what actualy happens until she is offered a formal LMO of her own which could be done possibly in a few months.
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Old May 3rd 2013, 4:43 pm
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Default Re: Visitors Visa on one way ticket?

Originally Posted by cushdee
Great News!!
Do you think it would be best to mention that she is due to get her own LMO but hasnt been cleared yet and she has to go for a interview first. Or Just say that she is visiting me for a month and then returning to the uk and then deciding on the "months holiday" whether or not she is going to come over with me in the future?
What part of post #23 is hard to comprehend?
She has dual intent to either visit and then return or stay and work.
As she has not been approved to work ie positive LMO been granted then I could argue as it is her intention to work eventually then at that time she is in contravention of the Act.

Read these sections to show you how murky the waters are.

Obligation — answer truthfully

16. (1) A person who makes an application must answer truthfully all questions put to them for the purpose of the examination and must produce a visa and all relevant evidence and documents that the officer reasonably requires.
Marginal note:Obligation — relevant evidence

(2) In the case of a foreign national,
(a) the relevant evidence referred to in subsection (1) includes photographic and fingerprint evidence; and
(b) subject to the regulations, the foreign national must submit to a medical examination.

Obligation on entry

20. (1) Every foreign national, other than a foreign national referred to in section 19, who seeks to enter or remain in Canada must establish,
(a) to become a permanent resident, that they hold the visa or other document required under the regulations and have come to Canada in order to establish permanent residence; and
(b) to become a temporary resident, that they hold the visa or other document required under the regulations and will leave Canada by the end of the period authorized for their stay.

Application after entry

199. A foreign national may apply for a work permit after entering Canada if they
(a) hold a work permit;
(b) are working in Canada under the authority of section 186 and are not a business visitor within the meaning of section 187;
(c) hold a study permit;
(d) hold a temporary resident permit issued under subsection 24(1) of the Act that is valid for at least six months;
(e) are a family member of a person described in any of paragraphs (a) to (d);
(f) are in a situation described in section 206 or 207;
(g) applied for a work permit before entering Canada and the application was approved in writing but they have not been issued the permit;
(h) are applying as a trader or investor, intra-company transferee or professional, as described in Section B, C or D of Annex 1603 of the Agreement, within the meaning of subsection 2(1) of the North American Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act, and their country of citizenship — being a country party to that Agreement — grants to Canadian citizens who submit a similar application within that country treatment equivalent to that accorded by Canada to citizens of that country who submit an application within Canada, including treatment in respect of an authorization for multiple entries based on a single application; or
(i) hold a written statement from the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade stating that it has no objection to the foreign national working at a foreign mission in Canada.

So basically by not being in possession of the valid LMO at the time of entry she is in non compliance of the Act.
Read section 199 of the regs carefully and you tell me if she can apply for a work permit after being admitted into Canada as a visitor?
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Old May 3rd 2013, 4:51 pm
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Default Re: Visitors Visa on one way ticket?

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian
What part of post #23 is hard to comprehend?
She has dual intent to either visit and then return or stay and work.
As she has not been approved to work ie positive LMO been granted then I could argue as it is her intention to work eventually then at that time she is in contravention of the Act.

Read these sections to show you how murky the waters are.

Obligation — answer truthfully

16. (1) A person who makes an application must answer truthfully all questions put to them for the purpose of the examination and must produce a visa and all relevant evidence and documents that the officer reasonably requires.
Marginal note:Obligation — relevant evidence

(2) In the case of a foreign national,
(a) the relevant evidence referred to in subsection (1) includes photographic and fingerprint evidence; and
(b) subject to the regulations, the foreign national must submit to a medical examination.

Obligation on entry

20. (1) Every foreign national, other than a foreign national referred to in section 19, who seeks to enter or remain in Canada must establish,
(a) to become a permanent resident, that they hold the visa or other document required under the regulations and have come to Canada in order to establish permanent residence; and
(b) to become a temporary resident, that they hold the visa or other document required under the regulations and will leave Canada by the end of the period authorized for their stay.

Application after entry

199. A foreign national may apply for a work permit after entering Canada if they
(a) hold a work permit;
(b) are working in Canada under the authority of section 186 and are not a business visitor within the meaning of section 187;
(c) hold a study permit;
(d) hold a temporary resident permit issued under subsection 24(1) of the Act that is valid for at least six months;
(e) are a family member of a person described in any of paragraphs (a) to (d);
(f) are in a situation described in section 206 or 207;
(g) applied for a work permit before entering Canada and the application was approved in writing but they have not been issued the permit;
(h) are applying as a trader or investor, intra-company transferee or professional, as described in Section B, C or D of Annex 1603 of the Agreement, within the meaning of subsection 2(1) of the North American Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act, and their country of citizenship — being a country party to that Agreement — grants to Canadian citizens who submit a similar application within that country treatment equivalent to that accorded by Canada to citizens of that country who submit an application within Canada, including treatment in respect of an authorization for multiple entries based on a single application; or
(i) hold a written statement from the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade stating that it has no objection to the foreign national working at a foreign mission in Canada.

So basically by not being in possession of the valid LMO at the time of entry she is in non compliance of the Act.
Read section 199 of the regs carefully and you tell me if she can apply for a work permit after being admitted into Canada as a visitor?
Ok

I think the best option for us is for her to come out visit me for a few weeks and then return to the uk until her own LMO is granted this way we are not doing anything illegal anything dodgy and being 100% honest. I suppose when shes in canada she could then look for work whilst shes there but would still have to return to the uk and await her own LMO.
Am I right this time?
Im just trying to do everything properly damn its all come down to this due to us not being told the truth and was told it was no problem and now its turned into a massive problem for us and costing a lot more money than we thought it would.

Last edited by cushdee; May 3rd 2013 at 4:57 pm.
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Old May 3rd 2013, 4:58 pm
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Default Re: Visitors Visa on one way ticket?

Originally Posted by cushdee
Ok

I think the best option for us is for her to come out visit me for a few weeks and then return to the uk until her own LMO is granted this way we are not doing anything illegal anything dodgy and being 100% honest. I suppose when shes in canada she could then look for work whilst shes there but would still have to return to the uk and await her own LMO.
Am I right this time?
Yes but she doesnt have to go back to the UK it says must leave Canada it doesn't say where to.
Once she gets a positive LMO she could flagpole i.e. go to the US and re-enter Canada. My main concern is if she doesn't declare her intention to work and we find evidence that it is her intention to work and not visiting as a tourist then we can argue she is in violation of the Act at the time of her initial entry and she is not in possession of the positive LMO required to work in Canada.

This section of IRPA is the non compliance
Non-compliance with Act

41. A person is inadmissible for failing to comply with this Act
(a) in the case of a foreign national, through an act or omission which contravenes, directly or indirectly, a provision of this Act; and
(b) in the case of a permanent resident, through failing to comply with subsection 27(2) or section 28.
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Old May 3rd 2013, 5:08 pm
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Default Re: Visitors Visa on one way ticket?

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian
My main concern is if she doesn't declare her intention to work and we find evidence that it is her intention to work and not visiting as a tourist then we can argue she is in violation of the Act at the time of her initial entry and she is not in possession of the positive LMO required to work in Canada.
In that case...surely she should simply say...

My OH is here, he is working. I am coming over to visit him, plus have an interview with a potential employer, then go back home. I do not intend to work this trip or whenever here on a visitors Visa. If I am subsequently issued a work permit I will then return from the UK to Canada to work.
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Old May 3rd 2013, 5:22 pm
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Default Re: Visitors Visa on one way ticket?

Originally Posted by james.mc
In that case...surely she should simply say...

My OH is here, he is working. I am coming over to visit him, plus have an interview with a potential employer, then go back home. I do not intend to work this trip or whenever here on a visitors Visa. If I am subsequently issued a work permit I will then return from the UK to Canada to work.
My best answer was given to him in a PM.
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Old May 3rd 2013, 8:54 pm
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Default Re: Visitors Visa on one way ticket?

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian
My best answer was given to him in a PM.
Copy that.
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Old May 3rd 2013, 10:16 pm
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Default Re: Visitors Visa on one way ticket?

Originally Posted by cushdee
Ok

So do you think the best option to do is purchase another Single Flight back to the uk say 4 weeks after entering.

Taking a copy of my Work permit and saying to the CBSA that shes just visiting for a month to help me settle into canada. because all in all this might be what actualy happens until she is offered a formal LMO of her own which could be done possibly in a few months.
Boarding the aircraft is going to be the first hurdle. She will be coming in as a visitor and the check agent may not let her on. You won't know until you arrive at the airport as it is up to each agent to determine the procedures.

If it were me and she had every intent of returning to the UK I would get a ticket for her return journey to show the agent at the check in for the first leg.

You can tell anyone what you like, but they will interpret the rules and procedures according to policy not sentiment.
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Old May 5th 2013, 1:06 am
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Default Re: Visitors Visa on one way ticket?

Originally Posted by Aviator
This is the bigger hurdle the OP will find. On a one way and not being a WP holder or PR, the carrier may not (high probability) let them board. There are no fines to the carrier for bringing someone in on a one way ticket, the only onus on the carrier is they record and report all on the pax manifest to the authorities.

The issue to the carrier, is they are on the hook to return them to their country of origin should the individual not be allowed entry. Although they have recourse on the individual to be paid for the flight, the carrier cannot insist on advance payment or no flight. The chances of getting paid are not good.
Interesting you say that. My OH used to work at Gatwick and the airlines told him they could be fined...
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Old May 5th 2013, 2:48 am
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Default Re: Visitors Visa on one way ticket?

Originally Posted by DandNHill
Interesting you say that. My OH used to work at Gatwick and the airlines told him they could be fined...
Air Carriers are not fined, for carrying a pax on a one way ticket. If they bring in a pax who does not have the required entry documents, they may be fined in some countries.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/apply-who.asp


Airlines do however have to (in most cases) take the person back to their point of origin. This may mean bumping another pax off the flight. If there is not a flight for several days, the individual is held in jail or a detention area until there is a flight.

The pax is responsible for the return fare, however the chances of the carrier getting it are usually slim if the person does care about flying on that carrier again (or others within the alliance).

I also worked at EGKK and EGLL.

Last edited by Aviator; May 5th 2013 at 2:54 am.
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Old May 5th 2013, 2:56 am
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Default Re: Visitors Visa on one way ticket?

Originally Posted by Aviator
Air Carriers are not fined, for carrying a pax on a one way ticket. If they bring in a pax who does not have the required entry documents, they may be fined in some countries.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/apply-who.asp


Airlines do however have to (in most cases) take the person back to their point of origin. This may mean bumping another pax off the flight. If there is not a flight for several days, the individual is held in jail or a detention area until there is a flight.

The pax is responsible for the return fare, however the chances of the carrier getting it are usually slim if the person does care about flying on that carrier again (or others within the alliance).

I also worked at EGKK and EGLL.
I've been trying to split a hair for decades. Your technique is perfect.
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Old May 5th 2013, 3:11 am
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Default Re: Visitors Visa on one way ticket?

Originally Posted by Novocastrian
I've been trying to split a hair for decades. Your technique is perfect.
Well we cannot all be perfect. Don't give up.

However, Canada does not require an individual to have a return ticket when they arrive at immigration, therefore the carrier would not be fined for bringing someone in with a one way. In other countries they would be if the pax was required to have a return or onward ticket as a condition of entry as a visitor.
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Old May 5th 2013, 7:09 am
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Default Re: Visitors Visa on one way ticket?

Originally Posted by Aviator
Well we cannot all be perfect. Don't give up.

However, Canada does not require an individual to have a return ticket when they arrive at immigration, therefore the carrier would not be fined for bringing someone in with a one way. In other countries they would be if the pax was required to have a return or onward ticket as a condition of entry as a visitor.
Quite. I suppose no-one else knows that?
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Old May 5th 2013, 4:40 pm
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Default Re: Visitors Visa on one way ticket?

For the purpose of clarity for the OP (and others wondering about this) I think it's fair to say that when travelling to Canada under a visa exempt passport, and intending to land as a visitor, it's best to have a return ticket from the outset otherwise:

a) On departure, at check-in, you may be refused boarding by the airline.

b) At the point of entry to Canada you may be refused entry if you do not satisfy the CBSA officer that your intentions are above board.

I still stand by what I first suggested in Post #2 of this thread.

My understanding is that it's not a legal requirement for you to travel with a return ticket to Canada as a visitor however, what happens in real life is another matter.... I would still pre purchase a return ticket of some sorts.
It's what I would do if I was the OP.

The airline check-in staff don't always know the legal/entry requirements of every country. Far be it from them to take advice from a passenger trying to talk their way onto a flight with a one way ticket! They will likely take the side of caution and boot you off, rather than give you the benefit of the doubt.
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