UK Yobs
 

This was in our local paper today. One of the reasons why we are glad we left the UK.

http://www.canada.com/victoria/times...5-070be9dfa0b8

Agree - Leicester wher I am from had it fair share of problems..it seems its almost an ingrained part of culture ...its a real shame!

Hey Ray, I'm from Leicester too. Moved to Canada in 1995 and then to Indiana in 2003.
My Sister-in-law and her boyfriend were visiting from England a few weeks back and asked me if I still missed anything about England.
I said that I missed going down town with the lads from work on a Friday night for the occasional pub crawl.
She was quick to answer back by saying that those days ended a few years back.
She went on to say that she too can remember a few years back when the town centre was packed on Firdays and Saturdays with people milling around walking from pub to pub with little or no trouble.
That's all changed apparently. Very few people go into town anymore.:( :(

I grew up in Blackpool and spent several years in Manchester whilst at University and I have to say that going to downtown Toronto at night is a million miles away from going to Blackpool or Manchester city centre on a weekend. Obviously there are certain areas of Toronto you wouldn't want to go to at night but they are fairly self contained and avoidable. The problem with UK town and city centres is that it is universal because of the general youth culture and the lisencing laws that force all bars and pubs to empty at 11pm and then all clubs to empty at 2-3am so that everybody is forced out into the street universally across the entire town/city. So it becomes a gauntlet of hoping you can get from the pub to a taxi/car/bus etc. without running into the wrong group of inebraited yobs etc.

Drew

Typical newspaper junk.

My wife and I went to England for a holiday in May this year, and it's exactly the same as it's always been - great. We loved every minute of it, and just because people enjoy drinking, it does not make them yobs. We spent nights out in Bournemouth, Winchester, Weymouth and London. All damn fun and all free of any trouble. Of course a couple of people get out of hand and bad stuff happens, but that happens in Calgary too (yes it does) - it happens anywhere.

I'm just happy I can see things how they are and don't have to rely on everything I read in a rag. Maybe some towns have issues, but it's wrong to brand the entire country as dangerous!

:zzz:

Try coming down south to the "Family" resort of Torquay.

The harbourside and lower end of the town has become a virtual no go area for local residents because of the appaling behaviour that occurs every Friday and saturday night.

Fights, a recent murder, stabbings, bottlings, sexual immorality, vomiting, urinating, abuse, foul language and more.

This is in a town that advertises itself as a place you can bring your kids to for a fun time.

If "all you can drink for a tenner" pubs is your idea of a good time, come on down, because we have it here.

I am not an old prude, I am 40!

Theres a difference between drinking and having a good time, going home and not causing any trouble and getting pissed on cheap alcopops drinks and causing grief.

Maybe try going to birkenhead or liverpool town centre on a Saturday night and you will see what he is going on about.

And by the way I dont need to rely on the local rags to get my info, I lived in the Uk for 30 years.

And yes you are correct to point out that not every town. city has that problem, but it is certainly a growing and worrying trend.

You know Spongebob I would hazard a guess and say of all the cities in the UK with populations of over 100,000, the vast majority would have these problems., every city i visited in the Midlands had the same problem ...Birmingham, Notts, Coventry, Derby, Leicester

I would agree with you there Ray1968. Its funny how people like to say it never happens, if the papers even suggest that it may be a problem then then it is discounted as being crap straight off the bat.

Well this article didnt come from the English tabloids and it had no links to the daily mail (which has a habit of putting the Uk down), just a local rag that picked up on an issue that a non brit experienced while he vacationed in the UK

Maybe they dont get out enough, or only visit the quaint country pub once a week on a Sunday.

weekend drinking
 

I'm sure if simonhouse lived back in the uk long another he would experience the behaviour that is reported in the paper.
Try having a night out down in northern Burnley, or our little town Padiham, i wouldn't dare go out at night down there, the voilence that goes on on a weekend basis due to drink. My father-in-law owns a corner shop, traditional sweet shop oppposite a park, and everynight has under age kids asking if he sells beer.
Recently there was a big crack down on under age drinkers, we now have alcohol free zones, but you see kids drinking around the parks all the time. I think it must happen in every city and in alot of rural places aswell.

It's bad all over...
 

My fiancee and I are Canadians and we've had troubles with a group of yobs here in Essex (she's a teacher at the local high school - so a lot of the teens know her) who've thrown beer bottles and rocks at cars driving down the high street on Friday nights.

We're moving home to Ontario next week, and one of the things we'll miss the least is the yob culture. I read this week that the government has proposed a crackdown - I'll believe it's working when I don't see gangs of 15 year old kids drinking freely and intimidating passersby.

-b-

Drinking
 

Maidstone now brings out portable urinals in the street at closing time!

Well I live in North Wales. I went to university in Liverpool and still have friends living there. The only time I've ever been in a scuffle was in Liverpool when a lad walked past and hit me and a mate for no reason at all and I still feel much safer in Liverpool than in any of the 'quaint' small towns round here.

Small towns, big egos.

The Duke of Westminster even said he would rather his girls go out in Liverpool than Chester or Ellesmere Port.

Most people are out for a good time, you can tell the people that aren't and you give them a wide berth.

My point is this problem is not limited to England - bad stuff happens here too.

I buy beer from my local liquor store every weekend, and there is always a different group of kids hanging outside asking me if I'll buy them some drink and they get abusive when I say no. Same with cigarettes.

Then head down to 17th Avenue on a weekend - there are no minor scuffles here - they are busy stamping on each others heads and stabbing each other. It has been featured on TV here several times and I've witnessed it myself. Amazing how short people's memories are when it comes to problems in Canada.

Perhaps it is a problem in England, but Canadians should try sorting out their own issues before trying to brand an entire country as dangerous.

I for one look forward to visiting my favourite haunts in England as soon as possible. I was brought up in England, and have alot of friends there. They don't complain about what seems obvious to you guys!

I'm one of the very few native Canadians who writes to this forum. I have never criticized the UK. Nearly 100% of those who do criticize life in the UK are Brits who have moved to Canada or those who want to. Most of these ex-pat Brits have lived in both countries long enough to have an informed opinion on this topic. My observation is that most are saying that the UK has a "yob culture" and that Canada does not.

You are right there about Liverpool, Birkehead and the other towns chester etc are now considered a lot worse.

I used to drink in birkenhead when I was younger. Gone right down hill now though.

I was referring to the journalist who wrote that article in the paper - I presume he is a Canadian.

I've lived in both countries long enough to make an informed opinion too, and it differs from what the others say. It could be that I frequented different places than they have, or that some people love to complain about Britain (perhaps it helps re-enforce their decision to live in Canada)?

I don't know, perhaps because I'm younger, I see things differently? I'm certainly not trying to distort any truth though and I promise you I'm not telling pork pies.

Have to agree with you. I think "yobs" exist here too - they are just not roaming the streets rat-faced on lager. They drive cars rat-faced on dope or crystal meth..... :p

No doubt that there has been a few such cases that you are aware of dingbat, and I've seen reports of that behavior in the Vancouver media myself. As far as my personal experience, I haven't witnessed such behavior during the last 20 years with the exception of seeing a few drunk Indians in Edmonton's inner city. Of course I only resided in Canada for over 40 years, so what would I know? :p

The real issue is how would you compare the UK with Canada regarding the extent of any yob culture?

yobs
 

the problem with the yobs that it stems from parents who dont give a dam if they are out on the streets till late the only way to stop it getting any worse if possible is have a viable deterent ship them out to sea then sink the ship.........

On the whole - but drawing from the only two provinces I have experience of (Ont & BC), the UK has a far worse yob culture. The level of disrespect for other people and property shown by some sectors of the population is stunning in the UK. Much of this stems from the Thatcher years, the "I want, I get" mentality that baby boomers instilled into the kids. This attitude is also prevalent here in Canada, and manifests itself into immature adults who go nowhere, see nothing outside their little insular communities and breed children who know no better and follow suit. Canadian kids are, in general however, far less likely to congregate in gangs in the town centre and go alcohol fuelled rampages. Kids in the UK are tougher, more street wise and are expected to fend for themselves at a much earlier age. With age comes wisdom; give a 17 year old too much money, freedom, the belief that they are invincible and responsible to no one and you create a monster. It doesn't matter which flag you fly then.

If you read the article, it's clear that he used to live there, so apparently, he's a Brit.

Yes, you're probably right - I had another read.

On dissecting that article a little, it becomes painfully obvious that the writer brands people yobs because of their hair style, tattoos, or because they prefer to spend their stag nights out on the town instead of in a Church.

And Beckham is NOT a poster boy for a generation of thugs. Probably more likely to get your head bent if you had a poster of him on your wall.

p.s. I'm Welsh and a Liverpool fan so this opinion is not influenced by recent events. :p

i came to the uk from montreal in 1996, when i was 22. i have travelled extensive throughout the last ten years and i can honestly say i have never seen the yob culture that exists in the uk anywhere else. i really dont think its going to get any better. im due to head back to canada in the next couple of months and i cannot wait to go!

Well I've moved between the two recently in both directions...
and yes the UK has a "yob" culture and its not nice....

But Canada has its problems too... you don't see it as much in the cities as people drink at home more.... and the kids in cars well that just life in Canadian culture....

But the drinking problem shows up in the smaller towns far from cities... and its just as nasty as the UK ‘yob’ culture.. (and one thing the UK doesn't have much of is Fetal alcohol syndrome… )

But I would say drunken violence in Canada although less common is much more dangerous when it happens than in the UK

i never said canada didnt have any problems... both countries have their positive and negative aspects. i guess its just up to people to weigh out the best option for them

my theory is that yob culture seems so prevalent here due to the fact that there are just too many people crammed into such a small space!

Big cities in Canada have Friday/Saturday night alcohol-fuelled yobbishness and violence problems. But it's a question of degrees. Parts of Manchester, when I left it, were nothing short of anarchic at times.

“The worldwide incidence of FAS is 1.9 per 1000 live births. Incidence rates vary considerably, depending on the region of the world. They reviewed studies from Australia, Canada, Finland, France, Sweden, Switzerland, and England. The studies from the United States were from Boston, Cleveland, Denver, Loma Linda, Seattle, and the American Southwest. The studies reflect white, Black, Native American, middle class, inner city, and suburban populations. It is clear that certain socioeconomic groups have a greater incidence of FAS. Some Native American populations have the highest incidence in the world (Apache, Ute 19.5 per 1000 births).�

http://www.russianadoption.org/fas.htm

The FAS (fetal alcohol syndrome) rate in Canada is 2.0 per 1,000, which is about the same as the worldwide incidence. That despite the rate being skewed upward because of the high rate of alcoholism in Canada’s Amerindian population.

I have seen no evidence that small towns have more of a problem (with yobs) than the larger cities in Canada. Nor have I seen any evidence that shows the incidence of FAS in Canada (excluding the Amerindian population, many of whom live on remote reservations) is any higher than the rate in the UK. Do you have any verifiable information to the contrary?

The problem with FAS is worldwide. “FAS is the leading cause of mental retardation in western civilization.� FAS is also a problem in the UK.

http://www.come-over.to/FAS/

I’m also unaware of any studies or reports suggesting that drunken violence in Canada is anymore dangerous than in the UK. It maybe, but are you aware of any information that supports your opinion?

Yes, wherever boozing is popular there are problems. That's why the laws in Canada restrict drinking to licensed establishments (outside of the home). That way, at least we have some kind of a handle on the issue.

That only works when people follow the laws.

Only the other day, a gang of underage yobs brutally attacked and hospitalised an off duty police officer when drinking in a back alley, and this is hardly an isolated incident. Most of the stuff doesn't even get reported - but any clued up person can see under age drinking all the time, especially in my neighbourhood.

Perhaps it's not to the same extent as UK right now, but who knows what's around the corner?

I can't give you any proof other than my own experience traveling the more remote areas of Canada....

Yep I would also agree that many of these area's have a higher native population and maybe that's why I get this opinion....

There's a definite yobbish culture here in the UK that potentially makes life very unpleasant and it's not just as a result of alcohol. There's a real attitude problem from some kids that starts at "I-don't-know-what age" that means that they feel they are untouchable.

We were recently sat as a family in our local KFC when a group of around six youths aged 12+ came in and just made general nuisances of themselves. Actually on this occasion the manager asked them to leave and they refused daring him to do something about it. To my surprise he gave them a ten second warning and then proceeded to physically propel the first boy out the front door at which point the others followed without his assistance. It was really pleasing to see but in these days I'd have thought he was on "dodgy" ground doing such a thing. No doubt the kids involved thought that too but I don't know if there were any further consequences of his actions.

The point is this unpleasant attitude exists because we are getting to a situation where the kids can bully the adults and the adults can't do too much about it. As they get older it gets worse and no doubt alcohol just adds to the problem.

The unusual thing about this incident was the location. This happened in the deep south of the city not too far from where we live. This was most definitely unusual as this is a quiet community - we make the news rarely!

I thought the location was odd too.

Usually any bad stuff happens in the NE !