UK Schools V's Canadian Schools
May 20th 2005, 6:51 am
#31
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,715
Re: UK Schools V's Canadian Schools
Originally Posted by Souvenir
No. Not sad. The church was used as an instrument of social control for too long and until not all that long ago.
The damage caused by church schools is profound and the effects ripple through people close to me and communities I care about on daily basis. I find it difficult to feel anything but anger and sadness.
Aug 14th 2005, 11:58 am
#32
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 353
Re: UK Schools V's Canadian Schools
Originally Posted by CalgaryAMC
When I was growing up my parents dragged me all over the place. South Africa, north Africa, England in between and after: educationally, none of it mattered.
It's the social dislocation you should be worried about.
Whether the kids are learning long division this term or next term doesn't matter. In any case that b.s. (let's face it, it means nothing in the long run) won't matter if your kid can't learn anything anyway because they are having such a terrible time fitting in.
So would I put my kid in a class with kids older than them because I thought it would be educationally better? No way! I wouldn't subject the poor mite to the potential bullying and other nastiness that we forget kids are so good at.
It's the social dislocation you should be worried about.
Whether the kids are learning long division this term or next term doesn't matter. In any case that b.s. (let's face it, it means nothing in the long run) won't matter if your kid can't learn anything anyway because they are having such a terrible time fitting in.
So would I put my kid in a class with kids older than them because I thought it would be educationally better? No way! I wouldn't subject the poor mite to the potential bullying and other nastiness that we forget kids are so good at.
Aug 14th 2005, 12:06 pm
#33
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 353
Re: UK Schools V's Canadian Schools
Originally Posted by Quinn of Québec
Hi there,
I thought I'd throw in a few of my observations.
Firstly let me say that I am a teacher here in the UK so obviously know a fair deal about schooling here.
Last month I spent a fact-finding/job hunting two weeks in Canada in which I visited a lot of schools in Qu颥c (I will be teaching there from August of this year).
The first difference worth mentioning is that whereas in the UK, the curriculum is the same all over the UK and determined/governed at a national level in Canada it is determined by the provincial governments and can therefore vary greatly across Canada.
I did visit a variety of schools but as they were all in Qu颥c I can only make comparisons of the UK with that province but it may be interesting to you anyhow.
I am a science teacher and I must say that since GCSEs replaced the old 'O-levels' the science curriculum in the UK has become increasingly diluted and 'dumbed-down' in recent years. In Canada however the curriculum for the three sciences is far more traditional and conceptually challenging (in fact it makes the UK science curriculum look a little embarassing!).
This apparent superiority of the Qu颥c educational system has to be tempered by the fact that whereas in the UK all pupils have to take english, maths, science and a foreign language, in Qu颥c the only subjects that are compulsory are english and french and history (of Qu颥c). I found it quite shocking that maths and science weren't compulsory but of course serious students take them anyway.
Compare the Qu颥c curriculum for science found at;
http://www.mels.gouv.qc.ca/GR-PUB/me...u-a.htm#second
to that of the Uk science curriculum found at;
http://www.aqa.org.uk/qual/pdf/AQA3468WSP.pdf
take it from me the Qu颥c curriculum for science make the Uk's look rudimentary!
The thing I like about the Canadian system is that if you fail a year you can be forced to repeat it. This is a hell of an incentive to work hard for the students there. In the UK the concept of failure is brushed under the carpet until after the final exams so that the first taste of failure the pupils have is when they get their gcse results which is a little too late don't you think? This difference in the two systems in manifest in the difference in pupils' attitudes towards study; here in the UK teachers chase pupils around trying to get coursework out of them etc and the pupils act is if they are doing YOU a favour when they comply and try tp improve their grade - it's the 'tail wagging the dog' so to speak. In Canada if the students don't want to work - fine, they'll have to repeat a year and they know it consequently they generally seem to be more motivated to work hard and do well.
I was impressed with the manners, attitude and general behaviour of the Canadian students when I visited the schools.
On the subject of being impressed, I visited two state run schools in the Eastern Townships close to the US border, where EVERY student is given an apple G4 ibook laptop computer for the their studies. What impressed me . . . .? hardly any breakages despite the project being a few years old.
What does sadden me about Qu颥c though, is that all the denominational schools have dissapeared as the state becomes increasingly secular - how sad!
Anyway, enough of my ramblings for now - more on this subject when I'm less tired.
I thought I'd throw in a few of my observations.
Firstly let me say that I am a teacher here in the UK so obviously know a fair deal about schooling here.
Last month I spent a fact-finding/job hunting two weeks in Canada in which I visited a lot of schools in Qu颥c (I will be teaching there from August of this year).
The first difference worth mentioning is that whereas in the UK, the curriculum is the same all over the UK and determined/governed at a national level in Canada it is determined by the provincial governments and can therefore vary greatly across Canada.
I did visit a variety of schools but as they were all in Qu颥c I can only make comparisons of the UK with that province but it may be interesting to you anyhow.
I am a science teacher and I must say that since GCSEs replaced the old 'O-levels' the science curriculum in the UK has become increasingly diluted and 'dumbed-down' in recent years. In Canada however the curriculum for the three sciences is far more traditional and conceptually challenging (in fact it makes the UK science curriculum look a little embarassing!).
This apparent superiority of the Qu颥c educational system has to be tempered by the fact that whereas in the UK all pupils have to take english, maths, science and a foreign language, in Qu颥c the only subjects that are compulsory are english and french and history (of Qu颥c). I found it quite shocking that maths and science weren't compulsory but of course serious students take them anyway.
Compare the Qu颥c curriculum for science found at;
http://www.mels.gouv.qc.ca/GR-PUB/me...u-a.htm#second
to that of the Uk science curriculum found at;
http://www.aqa.org.uk/qual/pdf/AQA3468WSP.pdf
take it from me the Qu颥c curriculum for science make the Uk's look rudimentary!
The thing I like about the Canadian system is that if you fail a year you can be forced to repeat it. This is a hell of an incentive to work hard for the students there. In the UK the concept of failure is brushed under the carpet until after the final exams so that the first taste of failure the pupils have is when they get their gcse results which is a little too late don't you think? This difference in the two systems in manifest in the difference in pupils' attitudes towards study; here in the UK teachers chase pupils around trying to get coursework out of them etc and the pupils act is if they are doing YOU a favour when they comply and try tp improve their grade - it's the 'tail wagging the dog' so to speak. In Canada if the students don't want to work - fine, they'll have to repeat a year and they know it consequently they generally seem to be more motivated to work hard and do well.
I was impressed with the manners, attitude and general behaviour of the Canadian students when I visited the schools.
On the subject of being impressed, I visited two state run schools in the Eastern Townships close to the US border, where EVERY student is given an apple G4 ibook laptop computer for the their studies. What impressed me . . . .? hardly any breakages despite the project being a few years old.
What does sadden me about Qu颥c though, is that all the denominational schools have dissapeared as the state becomes increasingly secular - how sad!
Anyway, enough of my ramblings for now - more on this subject when I'm less tired.
too true...love it when they hand in c/w late saying "there you go miss, done this for u"
Aug 14th 2005, 2:03 pm
#34
Assimilated Pauper
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,018
Re: UK Schools V's Canadian Schools
We looked at this issue slightly differently. We didn't know if we would be in Canada throughout the children's high school years and have always assumed that once they completed their education they'd leave the country. Accordingly we wanted them to have the most portable education at each stage and selected a school that offered the Bac (www.ibo.org). In the event we didn't move whike they were in high school but the qualification served them well when it came time to apply to universities.
Aug 14th 2005, 2:08 pm
#35
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Calgary
Posts: 605
Re: UK Schools V's Canadian Schools
We moved here from the UK last year, and our children have just completed grade 1 (boy) and grade 4 (girl). Both went to single-sex private schools in the UK.
The immediate impression of the local school was how relaxed and friendly it was. My daughter has had a couple of incidents of boys mocking her accent but she has learnt to tolerate it and give it back. What she did find was that the girls were less mature and played "childish games" at recess. However, as she progressed through the year she made a couple of good friends and did well academically.
My son fitted right in. He hated his school in the UK (very formal) now he can wear his rugby or hockey jersey and the whole learning experience is much more relaxed. He has also benefitted from being in a class (20 children in total) with girls. He also got good grades.
Both of the children are more relaxed going to school and there seems to be much less pressure on them here than in the UK. Are we worried about this?
No. Both myself and my wife used to dread the homework pile that my daughter used to bring home at weekends in the UK. She still gets a reasonable amount of homework (less in the warmer months as her teacher thinks children should be out playing).
As previous contributors have said, there seems to be much more to school here than in the "academically focused" UK. The focus here seems to be on producing well rounded youngsters who can contribute to society.
Even though Canadian students may appear to be behind, they still get to University or college and Canada still produces doctors, dentists, lawyers accountants, scientists.
The school system seems to hold more choice too. There's Catholic, French Immersion and Calgary has an Arts school and a National Sports school.
In summary I would say that children have a longer childhood here than in the UK. School is an important part of that childhood but as there is so much to do outside of school it's not the "be all and end all". e.g. In grades 2 and 5, kids ski free at the big resorts in the Rockies. Additionally, there's swimming, soccer, skating, cross-country running, art classes, music, hockey, toboganning.
The main reason we moved here was that my wife (a Canadian) wanted the children to have a "Canadian childhood".
The immediate impression of the local school was how relaxed and friendly it was. My daughter has had a couple of incidents of boys mocking her accent but she has learnt to tolerate it and give it back. What she did find was that the girls were less mature and played "childish games" at recess. However, as she progressed through the year she made a couple of good friends and did well academically.
My son fitted right in. He hated his school in the UK (very formal) now he can wear his rugby or hockey jersey and the whole learning experience is much more relaxed. He has also benefitted from being in a class (20 children in total) with girls. He also got good grades.
Both of the children are more relaxed going to school and there seems to be much less pressure on them here than in the UK. Are we worried about this?
No. Both myself and my wife used to dread the homework pile that my daughter used to bring home at weekends in the UK. She still gets a reasonable amount of homework (less in the warmer months as her teacher thinks children should be out playing).
As previous contributors have said, there seems to be much more to school here than in the "academically focused" UK. The focus here seems to be on producing well rounded youngsters who can contribute to society.
Even though Canadian students may appear to be behind, they still get to University or college and Canada still produces doctors, dentists, lawyers accountants, scientists.
The school system seems to hold more choice too. There's Catholic, French Immersion and Calgary has an Arts school and a National Sports school.
In summary I would say that children have a longer childhood here than in the UK. School is an important part of that childhood but as there is so much to do outside of school it's not the "be all and end all". e.g. In grades 2 and 5, kids ski free at the big resorts in the Rockies. Additionally, there's swimming, soccer, skating, cross-country running, art classes, music, hockey, toboganning.
The main reason we moved here was that my wife (a Canadian) wanted the children to have a "Canadian childhood".
Aug 14th 2005, 3:26 pm
#36
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Sep 2004
Location: Windsor, ON; Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,713
Re: UK Schools V's Canadian Schools
Originally Posted by CalgaryBlade
Both myself and my wife used to dread the homework pile that my daughter used to bring home at weekends in the UK. She still gets a reasonable amount of homework (less in the warmer months as her teacher thinks children should be out playing).
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=357942005
Biiiiink
Aug 14th 2005, 4:42 pm
#37
Assimilated Pauper
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,018
Re: UK Schools V's Canadian Schools
Originally Posted by Biiiiink
My old school in the UK has banned homework, interesting to read Canadian teachers seem to be thinking along the same lines. It comes about 20yrs too late for me but perhaps Biiiiink Jr will be spared!
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=357942005
Biiiiink
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=357942005
Biiiiink
Aug 14th 2005, 5:17 pm
#38
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 70
Re: UK Schools V's Canadian Schools
Moved two kids to Ontario from UK schools. My daughter was put in the wrong grade for 6 months....in the UK it is based on birthdays from Sept to Sept Ontario it is January to December...makes a big difference if your child was born early or late in ther year...once we figured that out (she was drowning in the amount of work expected to do) she has settled in great and loves it here. She is about to go into grade 9 high school. My son who went from high school in england to elementary school here found it al little more difficult (he was 12 at the time). High school was a big shock to him when he started as he expected it to be like high school he had attended in england with detentions and teachers actually caring about the work he did. It took him a long time to figure out that no one really cared at school whether he did the work or not it was up to him to pass to gain his credit. Also no one let us know that there is an exemption for kids coming from abroad to take another class instead of French..to gain their credit. He hadnt taken french in england and was therefore a good few years behind his peers. He did manage to pass his credit though. I find it very frustrating (i used to teach high school in England) that the teachers (i know i an generalizing here) do not seem to give a damn unless the kids are in the academic top stream, no motivating kids to do their best, no actually giving kids guidance on what they should be doing. My son actually took a class where ther students wrote notes for the first 5 mins of the class then it was up to them..many of them would wander into town or go sunbathe!!
A couple of the teachers made appointments for parents night then didnt bother to show up.
Anyway, my opinion for what its worth..UK high schools much better in motivating all academic levels of kids but Canadian Elementary schools much better in the level of work they expect produced, sometimes way too much.
A couple of the teachers made appointments for parents night then didnt bother to show up.
Anyway, my opinion for what its worth..UK high schools much better in motivating all academic levels of kids but Canadian Elementary schools much better in the level of work they expect produced, sometimes way too much.
Originally Posted by dbd33
That's different ! My kids had just an amazing amount of homework, certainly two hours worth per day and enough to fill one day of the weekend. On top of that the way the schedules worked at their school was such that one had to attend night school in order to be able take physics. They did homework while camping, while waiting for their ballet lessons, in the car, between periods of hockey games they were playing, just all the time. It made me laugh when they got poor marks for calligraphy, of course the monks wrote better, they weren't on a tram.
Aug 14th 2005, 6:31 pm
#39
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Off moaning somewhere...
Posts: 882
Re: UK Schools V's Canadian Schools
Just a reminder that Canadian children don't start school until they are 5 - so the fact that British schools are a year ahead is hardly surprising given that we start at 4 here. Also, Canadians continue to learn throughout high school until they are 18 rather than spending a year or two learning the same thing over and over to prepare for exams so it could be argued that Canadians have a better overall education with a wider knowledge base - the last year of school in Canada has often been compared with first year university over here in Britain.
Aug 14th 2005, 6:55 pm
#40
Assimilated Pauper
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,018
Re: UK Schools V's Canadian Schools
Originally Posted by Mr Lee
the last year of school in Canada has often been compared with first year university over here in Britain.
Aug 14th 2005, 11:49 pm
#41
Just Joined
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1
Re: UK Schools V's Canadian Schools
Hello,
I currently have two sons (twelve and sixteen) who have been enrolled in the BC education system for six years. There are both positive and negative observations I have made regarding the differences between British and Canadian schools; however, I feel that Canadian schools overall (including but further reaching than just academics) are superior. Canadian school teachers make very conscious efforts to instill confidence and career aspirations upon their students, regardless of their gender or race or class or sexuality. Also, the students here are taught quite extensively about professional social skills that are necessary in the business world, that is: resumes, interviews, discrimination in the workforce, one’s rights as an employee, and even goal-setting and time management skills. Even social skills outside of the business world are taught in the school such as: tolerance and anti-discrimination, social responsibility, environmental responsibility, and communication skills. This education, which would not be considered traditional academics, is unfortunately absent in the British school system as I remember it and is very important in producing well-rounded able students.
The negative thing I find in the Canadian school systems is their teachings of history and current political developments (known as Social Studies)—it is extremely lacking. Practically all that is taught at the high school level is Canadian history. While this is certainly important it does not take four years to learn and is taught at a very slow pace. My eldest son spent nearly a month learning about the Alaskan gold rush which could have been taught in about two days (I am not exaggerating). Children growing up in the Canadian system will not learn anything of Europe past or present (no one here knows anything of the European Union), and will be consistently taught of Canada’s superiority to the United States. However, having taught my sons personally about European history I feel they will come out of high school much more prepared for the world than those of British students.
I currently have two sons (twelve and sixteen) who have been enrolled in the BC education system for six years. There are both positive and negative observations I have made regarding the differences between British and Canadian schools; however, I feel that Canadian schools overall (including but further reaching than just academics) are superior. Canadian school teachers make very conscious efforts to instill confidence and career aspirations upon their students, regardless of their gender or race or class or sexuality. Also, the students here are taught quite extensively about professional social skills that are necessary in the business world, that is: resumes, interviews, discrimination in the workforce, one’s rights as an employee, and even goal-setting and time management skills. Even social skills outside of the business world are taught in the school such as: tolerance and anti-discrimination, social responsibility, environmental responsibility, and communication skills. This education, which would not be considered traditional academics, is unfortunately absent in the British school system as I remember it and is very important in producing well-rounded able students.
The negative thing I find in the Canadian school systems is their teachings of history and current political developments (known as Social Studies)—it is extremely lacking. Practically all that is taught at the high school level is Canadian history. While this is certainly important it does not take four years to learn and is taught at a very slow pace. My eldest son spent nearly a month learning about the Alaskan gold rush which could have been taught in about two days (I am not exaggerating). Children growing up in the Canadian system will not learn anything of Europe past or present (no one here knows anything of the European Union), and will be consistently taught of Canada’s superiority to the United States. However, having taught my sons personally about European history I feel they will come out of high school much more prepared for the world than those of British students.
Aug 15th 2005, 8:38 am
#42
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,715
Re: UK Schools V's Canadian Schools
Originally Posted by canuck11
The negative thing I find in the Canadian school systems is their teachings of history and current political developments (known as Social Studies)—it is extremely lacking.
Aug 15th 2005, 11:28 am
#43
Assimilated Pauper
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,018
Re: UK Schools V's Canadian Schools
Originally Posted by hot wasabi peas
As someone who has had most of their formal education in Canada, I pretty much agree. In 'Social Studies' during high school (and junior high?) I was taught Columbus discovered America, that cowboys were white, that Alexander Mackenzie was the first person to cross North America coast to coast and that Canada was a 'good' country that didn't participate in bad things like slavery and genocide. Hollywood movies would have been an equivalent substitute. Turned me into a habitual truant.
Aug 15th 2005, 12:37 pm
#44
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Milton, Ontario
Posts: 1,215
Re: UK Schools V's Canadian Schools
The reverse...
I moved from Canada to England when I was 10 and in grade 5. The language barrier will affect any move to kids, but speaking purely from an educational rather than social experience, what I experienced was:
I spent 1 term in a local primary school, which served kids aged 5-12 in 3 classes, so I was in a class with kids aged from 10-12. We had mathematics all day every day except for Wednesdays, where we had English in the morning and music in the afternoon (which was singing along to a radio). Bear in mind that this was 1989, and not exactly the dark ages, but I felt (even at the time) that it was an extremely poor school.
After that, I was then accepted to a private school (one of the best in the area) where I stayed for the next 8 years. I found that I was miles ahead of other children my age when it came to English (both language and literature). I couldn't comprehend how other kids were able to get away with using such poor grammar and spelling, and never got criticised by the teacher (I was still shocked at this when I did an English Lit A-Level at 18, and the kids hadn't improved!!!). In fact, my parents found it absolutely hilarious that in our first full year in the English school system, each of my brothers and I came top of our years in our English exams.
I was very behind in mathematics. When I left Canada we had covered multiplication, and had just touched on division. When I started my private school, they had finished these modules and moved on to other things (fractions, percentages, etc.) so I really struggled to catch up (and to this day I can't do long division!). I also struggled with other subjects that were less familiar to me...geography was a nightmare (obviously), and I had never done cooking/textiles (typical of an all-girls school!). Although I had done some science, I was not familiar with it being taught under three separate headings (physics, chemistry and biology) instead of it just being lumped together as "science".
One thing that I found very difficult was adjusting to exams. In Canada, we had weekly spelling tests, math tests, etc, but the idea of sitting down to do a 2-3 hour exam was completely foreign. In this respect, if you have a kid moving to Canada who suffers from exam anxiety, you'll probably get a reprieve for a few years, since the exams don't start coming in until later.
I realise that this is slightly the opposite of the question asked, but I thought it might give an idea of how a Canadian kid compares to the UK education system (as opposed to the other way around).
Katie
I moved from Canada to England when I was 10 and in grade 5. The language barrier will affect any move to kids, but speaking purely from an educational rather than social experience, what I experienced was:
I spent 1 term in a local primary school, which served kids aged 5-12 in 3 classes, so I was in a class with kids aged from 10-12. We had mathematics all day every day except for Wednesdays, where we had English in the morning and music in the afternoon (which was singing along to a radio). Bear in mind that this was 1989, and not exactly the dark ages, but I felt (even at the time) that it was an extremely poor school.
After that, I was then accepted to a private school (one of the best in the area) where I stayed for the next 8 years. I found that I was miles ahead of other children my age when it came to English (both language and literature). I couldn't comprehend how other kids were able to get away with using such poor grammar and spelling, and never got criticised by the teacher (I was still shocked at this when I did an English Lit A-Level at 18, and the kids hadn't improved!!!). In fact, my parents found it absolutely hilarious that in our first full year in the English school system, each of my brothers and I came top of our years in our English exams.
I was very behind in mathematics. When I left Canada we had covered multiplication, and had just touched on division. When I started my private school, they had finished these modules and moved on to other things (fractions, percentages, etc.) so I really struggled to catch up (and to this day I can't do long division!). I also struggled with other subjects that were less familiar to me...geography was a nightmare (obviously), and I had never done cooking/textiles (typical of an all-girls school!). Although I had done some science, I was not familiar with it being taught under three separate headings (physics, chemistry and biology) instead of it just being lumped together as "science".
One thing that I found very difficult was adjusting to exams. In Canada, we had weekly spelling tests, math tests, etc, but the idea of sitting down to do a 2-3 hour exam was completely foreign. In this respect, if you have a kid moving to Canada who suffers from exam anxiety, you'll probably get a reprieve for a few years, since the exams don't start coming in until later.
I realise that this is slightly the opposite of the question asked, but I thought it might give an idea of how a Canadian kid compares to the UK education system (as opposed to the other way around).
Katie
Last edited by cov-canuck; Aug 15th 2005 at 1:37 pm.
Aug 15th 2005, 12:52 pm
#45
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 9,606
Re: UK Schools V's Canadian Schools
I guess another difference between the two systems (unless things in the UK have changed a lot since I left) is the idea of summer school.
My step brat did pretty well in most his subjects but failed his French (probably our fault). And thus lost a large chunk of his summer vacation, stuck in summer school. He passed, which is good and bad. Good because his school will take him back this year, meaning that I have peace and quiet in the house until about 5.30. Bad because yours truly has to stump up the fees.
My step brat did pretty well in most his subjects but failed his French (probably our fault). And thus lost a large chunk of his summer vacation, stuck in summer school. He passed, which is good and bad. Good because his school will take him back this year, meaning that I have peace and quiet in the house until about 5.30. Bad because yours truly has to stump up the fees.