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UK Degrees to North American Degrees
Jul 21st 2003, 3:25 am
#1
Ironmonger
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 33
UK Degrees to North American Degrees
Hi all.
I would like some input from those of you who have some experience in how UK education compares with Canadian and American education.
According to the UK government's 1997 National Committee of Inquiry into Higher Education (Dearing Report):
"the American high school diploma compares in standard with GCSE and the associate degree with GCE A-level and Advanced GNVQ, the bachelor’s degree with a UK pass degree or higher national diploma and the Master’s degree with a bachelor’s honours degree from a British university."
I am particularly interested in the post-secondary educational experience (ie: Bachelor's degrees, Master's Degrees, Chartered Engineers, Incorporated Engineers etc.) of UK students who have moved to Canada or the US.
How was your experience?
I would like some input from those of you who have some experience in how UK education compares with Canadian and American education.
According to the UK government's 1997 National Committee of Inquiry into Higher Education (Dearing Report):
"the American high school diploma compares in standard with GCSE and the associate degree with GCE A-level and Advanced GNVQ, the bachelor’s degree with a UK pass degree or higher national diploma and the Master’s degree with a bachelor’s honours degree from a British university."
I am particularly interested in the post-secondary educational experience (ie: Bachelor's degrees, Master's Degrees, Chartered Engineers, Incorporated Engineers etc.) of UK students who have moved to Canada or the US.
How was your experience?
Jul 21st 2003, 3:44 am
#2
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Victoria, B.C.
Posts: 164
Re: UK Degrees to North American Degrees
I'm interested in this report - in fact I'm looking thruogh it now - what section is this in ?
Cheers - Steve
Cheers - Steve
Originally posted by Oms
Hi all.
I would like some input from those of you who have some experience in how UK education compares with Canadian and American education.
According to the UK government's 1997 National Committee of Inquiry into Higher Education (Dearing Report):
"the American high school diploma compares in standard with GCSE and the associate degree with GCE A-level and Advanced GNVQ, the bachelor’s degree with a UK pass degree or higher national diploma and the Master’s degree with a bachelor’s honours degree from a British university."
I am particularly interested in the post-secondary educational experience (ie: Bachelor's degrees, Master's Degrees, Chartered Engineers, Incorporated Engineers etc.) of UK students who have moved to Canada or the US.
How was your experience?
Hi all.
I would like some input from those of you who have some experience in how UK education compares with Canadian and American education.
According to the UK government's 1997 National Committee of Inquiry into Higher Education (Dearing Report):
"the American high school diploma compares in standard with GCSE and the associate degree with GCE A-level and Advanced GNVQ, the bachelor’s degree with a UK pass degree or higher national diploma and the Master’s degree with a bachelor’s honours degree from a British university."
I am particularly interested in the post-secondary educational experience (ie: Bachelor's degrees, Master's Degrees, Chartered Engineers, Incorporated Engineers etc.) of UK students who have moved to Canada or the US.
How was your experience?
Jul 21st 2003, 3:49 am
#3
Ironmonger
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 33
Re: UK Degrees to North American Degrees
Originally posted by SteveHarris
I'm interested in this report - in fact I'm looking thruogh it now - what section is this in ?
Cheers - Steve
I'm interested in this report - in fact I'm looking thruogh it now - what section is this in ?
Cheers - Steve
Jul 21st 2003, 4:17 am
#4
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Mar 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,296
Re: UK Degrees to North American Degrees
Originally posted by Oms
Hi all.
I would like some input from those of you who have some experience in how UK education compares with Canadian and American education.
According to the UK government's 1997 National Committee of Inquiry into Higher Education (Dearing Report):
"the American high school diploma compares in standard with GCSE and the associate degree with GCE A-level and Advanced GNVQ, the bachelor’s degree with a UK pass degree or higher national diploma and the Master’s degree with a bachelor’s honours degree from a British university."
I am particularly interested in the post-secondary educational experience (ie: Bachelor's degrees, Master's Degrees, Chartered Engineers, Incorporated Engineers etc.) of UK students who have moved to Canada or the US.
How was your experience?
Hi all.
I would like some input from those of you who have some experience in how UK education compares with Canadian and American education.
According to the UK government's 1997 National Committee of Inquiry into Higher Education (Dearing Report):
"the American high school diploma compares in standard with GCSE and the associate degree with GCE A-level and Advanced GNVQ, the bachelor’s degree with a UK pass degree or higher national diploma and the Master’s degree with a bachelor’s honours degree from a British university."
I am particularly interested in the post-secondary educational experience (ie: Bachelor's degrees, Master's Degrees, Chartered Engineers, Incorporated Engineers etc.) of UK students who have moved to Canada or the US.
How was your experience?
I'd say the report is right on the button. I did the old O and A levels in UK and when I moved to US, many.many years later, I did a degree- I hardly had to open a book to study- had done it all in Grammar School in UK.
Jul 21st 2003, 12:08 pm
#5
Forum Regular
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 34
My question here would be:
What is (in the 1st place) profit behind such comparison for us??
It would be useful if it came from a neutral source I would think. And more useful if one were to move from the Americas to the UK whereby an employer who's informed that a US Masters compares to a UK bachelors, will perhaps recieve it well...
But where most here are heading to NA it wouldn't sound too good really to an NA employer...(also given the current info. about how "badly" local degrees are sought)
Ofcourse the fact may be different and useful for any personal reference...
By the way with 2 UK masters I generally felt that the response from prospctive employers in Canada was allright but perhaps mainly because of some specialist work areas.
wouldn't know how they would be received in the general labour market.
What is (in the 1st place) profit behind such comparison for us??
It would be useful if it came from a neutral source I would think. And more useful if one were to move from the Americas to the UK whereby an employer who's informed that a US Masters compares to a UK bachelors, will perhaps recieve it well...
But where most here are heading to NA it wouldn't sound too good really to an NA employer...(also given the current info. about how "badly" local degrees are sought)
Ofcourse the fact may be different and useful for any personal reference...
By the way with 2 UK masters I generally felt that the response from prospctive employers in Canada was allright but perhaps mainly because of some specialist work areas.
wouldn't know how they would be received in the general labour market.
Jul 23rd 2003, 2:41 am
#6
Ironmonger
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 33
Re: UK Degrees to North American Degrees
Originally posted by Dunroving
Here's my take on things:
U.K. education is not the standard it used to be (8 O-levels is not uncommon today; I'd say only 5% or fewer grammar school students got 8 O-levels back when I took them in the late 70's).
Having said that, you are comparing apples to oranges.
U.S. education is broader and shallower than U.K., all the way through year 2 of bachelors degree (the mile wide, 2 inch deep curriculum, I've heard it called). U.K students specialize a lot earlier (I started "dropping subjects" when I was 12)
The US GED (high school diploma) and SAT test indicate only that you know a little about a lot and can answer standardized multiple choice questions. I'd say the level of knowledge is about that of year 9 or 10 in the U.K.
The first year and a half of the US degree consists of finishing off what you didn't learn in high school, i.e., general education (English, maths, science, humanities, social sciences), THEN they start their degree proper (i.e., classes in their major course of studies).
So, I agree generally with everything except the last statement. A U.K. bachelors degree with honors is NOT the same standard as a decent US masters degree. It is probably about halfway between US bachelors and masters.
Also, the US has a lot more "taught" masters and doctoral programs, i.e., you continue taking classes instead of doing research. My view from experience of teaching in the U.K. is that the standard of learning in UK research masters and doctorates is weaker than the US taught masters and doctorate programs that also contain a research thesis/dissertation.
Of course, the other thing to consider is that the US is not as standardized as the U.K. So, a masters degree from Backwoods College Florida is about as much use as a 50-meter breast stroke badge. A masters from MIT is a higher standard than one from Oxford.
The background I'm drawing on: I have a U.K. secondary education, U.K. Bachelors with honors, U.S. Master of Science and U.S. Ph.D. I have also taught at two US universities and one U.K. university.
Here's my take on things:
U.K. education is not the standard it used to be (8 O-levels is not uncommon today; I'd say only 5% or fewer grammar school students got 8 O-levels back when I took them in the late 70's).
Having said that, you are comparing apples to oranges.
U.S. education is broader and shallower than U.K., all the way through year 2 of bachelors degree (the mile wide, 2 inch deep curriculum, I've heard it called). U.K students specialize a lot earlier (I started "dropping subjects" when I was 12)
The US GED (high school diploma) and SAT test indicate only that you know a little about a lot and can answer standardized multiple choice questions. I'd say the level of knowledge is about that of year 9 or 10 in the U.K.
The first year and a half of the US degree consists of finishing off what you didn't learn in high school, i.e., general education (English, maths, science, humanities, social sciences), THEN they start their degree proper (i.e., classes in their major course of studies).
So, I agree generally with everything except the last statement. A U.K. bachelors degree with honors is NOT the same standard as a decent US masters degree. It is probably about halfway between US bachelors and masters.
Also, the US has a lot more "taught" masters and doctoral programs, i.e., you continue taking classes instead of doing research. My view from experience of teaching in the U.K. is that the standard of learning in UK research masters and doctorates is weaker than the US taught masters and doctorate programs that also contain a research thesis/dissertation.
Of course, the other thing to consider is that the US is not as standardized as the U.K. So, a masters degree from Backwoods College Florida is about as much use as a 50-meter breast stroke badge. A masters from MIT is a higher standard than one from Oxford.
The background I'm drawing on: I have a U.K. secondary education, U.K. Bachelors with honors, U.S. Master of Science and U.S. Ph.D. I have also taught at two US universities and one U.K. university.
Dunroving:
Your reply was most informative and I agree with your conclusions. However, I do believe that I am comparing apples to apples; albeit perhaps the American Winesap to the British Gladstone.
I submit that the standardized education systems of the industrialized nations have more similarities, in terms of structure and curricula, than differences. This similarity is more evident when we look at the English speaking world and especially the former British colonies.
However, the continuing differences between these various educational systems is what I was focusing upon. As you pointed out, the UK benefits from a greater level of standardisation than the US.
Also, I feel that there is a marked difference in the level of knowledge of an average UK high-school graduate and his/her North American counterpart. It seems to me that there is a greater awareness, on average, of world historical events and current and past geopolitical issues in the UK than in the US or Canada.
Given the choice of studying in either the US or the UK (at least till the level of a Bachelor’s degree), I would definitely prefer the UK education.
Thoughts?
Jul 23rd 2003, 7:27 am
#7
Banned
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: Hades (yorkshire)
Posts: 114
My husband is presently studying for his BSc in Computing Sciences in the UK. He grew up in Canada. He is finding the content of his bachelors in the UK equivelent to the stuff he did in Grade 12 and 13 advanced studies.
