poodlemaster

I wanted to type this post based on my awful personal experience of trying to find employment in Toronto.
First a bit about me. I am a senior marketing professional with experience working for tier 1 large establish UK and globally recognized companies., I have 15 yrs exp and was a senior manger.

So I get to Toronto all motivated to find work, struggled to get interviews for my actual level of experience. Even at the level below things were difficult. I was constantly told by everyone who I personally know that you will have to start at the bottom, this would have meant taking a 66% pay cut and working for something like 40,000. Anyone who knows that 15 yrs experience is valued at in FMCG/CPG as it is called in Canada will know that's hard to take.
The issue in part if that your UK experience is not recognized as its not experience gained in Canada, they, the employers just don't want to know as they see you as a risk.
The job market is extremely competitive, for some mid mgr jobs there are over 450 applications through LinkedIn alone, and a total of almost 1000 if it is a good paying job in an interesting segment.

What I found was that no matter how good your skills the max any employer would want to pay would be 80k, even if before you were at the 110K level this was never going to be your starting wage. The other thing I noticed was that most applications were just ignored, no response at all. The ones where I was in a process 9 in total the steps between rounds took ages, like 2-4 weeks for any feedback at all. Canadians are know to be risk adverse but this by UK standards is just unbelievable!

Part of the issue is that due to you not living and working in Canada your soft skills would get a very low score whereas your technical skills would be considered ok. Taking into account soft and technical skills are considered together this puts non local based candidates at a real disadvantage, and this is what discounts the rate you can expect. The other perspective is that you have little or no experience and this is exploited to the max if any offer is made at all. I think this approach is exploitative, as yiou may end up working next to someone being paid 30% more just because this person has 6-10yrs local company exp.

Trying to get feedback is difficult as employers dont want to be caught out discriminating against candidates with foreign market experience, something they are clearly doing. You will hear terms that are generic like the competition was stronger, or you did not work for x company, this is always a Canadian based operation. Sometimes you will hear you lacked in a certain skills, when you clearly don't, this issue is that you have not performed this element of the job in Canada. It hurts but what gradually happens as your funds deplete is that your forced further down the job ladder in an attempt to try sand get a job.

Of the 9 processes I was involved in I got no offers, got to 2 final stages but was beaten by someone who had worked locally both times. 7 of the opportunities i only got to the first stage. 2 of them i managed to get feedback on.

All the time that this is going on you get calls for commission only jobs, training courses and other parasites pestering you.

I found that by the end of trying I was totally demoralized and just wanted to give up as it was not worth staying in a place where the wages are so poor v the local living expenses. The salaries on offer even comparing to the UK are poor for the main reason they dont adjust at all for food +10% more, car insurance 50-100% more, and cell phones +100% more!
If you own a house sales tax, like council tax is about 50-100% more too.

So when you look at the Canadian household debt picture you will see debt is 163.5% for every dollar earned whereas in the UK its a 1.2 ratio, not 1.63! Reason is the poor wages.

My advice to anyone who has a degree, or post grad like me and lots of experience is DONT BOTHER. it will be very hard to get a job and it is going to take at least 6 months, if not 1yr. What you may have to do is change sector, and or job function. The economy is extremely limited v the UK. Most of the big jobs are in the US and only implementation jobs are in Canada.,Canadian companies cannot compete in the US so they are generally limited to Canada and therefore they cannot afford to pay livable wages.

The economy is heavily orientated towards minerals, finance banks, and real estate. IT is also quite boyant so if your in IT it is easier to get a job as demand is above supply.

Any questions please message this thread and I'll clarify any of my points, based on my experience.

bats

so did you get a job?

poodlemaster

Unfortunately not. It was not through not trying extremely hard. I have now lost all of my money to move out there, and no job in the UK to so the stakes are very high hence my post.
Not to mention my wife loves it there and now wants to stay!

bats

I sympathise. It took 7 years and $$$ in retraining and less skilled jobs before my husband got a full time job.

sharkus

Quick question. Why did you want to relocate to Canada versus staying in the UK in what would seem to be a fairly high paying role that you had there?

Relocating to Canada is not easy unless you are very fortunate, for example, you are able to qualify as an intra-companyee transferred, or happen to have a partner / spouse who is PR or a better yet, a Canadian Citizen.

Shirtback

I'm sorry you are having such a struggle Unfortunately it's rather common.

I'm a bit confused (easily done!) by the salary levels you mention. Are you saying that you applied for jobs advertised with 110k salaries & employers are actually only offering 80k when you are interviewed?

Are you (still) in Canada, or back in the UK?

SB

J-A-UK

Who said it would be easy?

Not sure why you had such a hard time finding work - To my mind there are plenty of opportunities..... Unless you expect to go from what you were earning and what you were doing in the Uk to exactly the same job at the same rate of pay in Canada

Of course no employer will offer the top available rate of pay to a new employee, why would they?

$40,000 is a livable wage, you just have to initially adjust the expectations - I was in a totally crap place when we arrived at Christmas 2007 - It was beyond crap!

But I did manage to pull myself around - I took a crappy job and got myself into the work place..... In January 2012 I was made up to regional manager in an industry that I didn't even know existed in 2007. My earnings will never be what I earned in the UK but I make it work.

No one said it would be easy...... And it's not.

If you are still in Canada go work in retail or McDonalds for a bit and see where it leads...... You never know

Good Luck

ExKiwilass

I'm sorry you had this experience.

The soft skills issue is tricky, because they are hard to measure and the immigrants feels as if they are used as an excuse to discriminate. I work in a sector with a lot of immigrants, and recently had a frank conversation with a manager about the issues with finding good leaders. The problem is a lot of immigrants might have great technical skills but their leadership, personal and business skills are lacking in the north american context. in our case, the company has tried having expats in leadership roles and in many cases it hasn't worked out. This includes British immigrants. The soft skills ARE very important.

MarkG

I do agree; I sent my resume to a couple of companies before moving, and, even though I had a PR visa and knew when I'd be arriving, I never heard anything from them. When I took this job, I also took a 25% pay cut compared to my last year in the UK, but, last year, I made 50% more than that last year in the UK.

In most countries, if you emigrate without a job offer or local contacts, you're almost certainly going to take a pay cut at the start. There really isn't any way around that. I came out here expecting that I might have to work in Tim Horton's for a while before I could get a real job.

happyhammers

Sorry to hear about your negative experience regarding finding work in Canada.
Its all to common with immigrants, and you hear about it a few times on this web site. I count myself very lucky as I have experienced the complete opposite.
Are you going to stick or bust ?
Good luck what ever you do

scrubbedexpat091

I do agree, based on being an employee where the manager was from Britain, and it was the most unpleasant work environment ever, she just could not manage, and didn't understand North America well enough to succeed in a management role, and the company eventually let her go.

She was very nice, but just lacked enough experience and knowledge in North America to be an effective leader.

MrFloyd

Why did you choose to even go looking if they can't offer "liveable wages"?

Without trying to sound rude or provocative, you appear to have some sense of entitlement in what you are expecting. What area did you work in the UK? That could explain the "pay cut".

The reason I want out of the UK is the pathetic, stagnant wages. I have a degree and all it helps me get is crappier jobs a little bit easier - why would employers bother to train and retain anyone when they can get someone full of experience and only pay them 2/3s the going rate?

ann m

Many of us on here will understand most of the points you have made. But with a few years of experience behind us, we can say "what did you expect?"

And if you are successful and find a job - any job - you will read this thread in five years time and duck your head a little and say "oh".

Very few people wander in to a new country with an exactly equivalent job, or better job. Some move if they have been offered it or head-hunted, but most of us mere mortals () have to start afresh - while absorbing the subtle differences in the workplace and finally realizing perhaps we didn't know it all, or know better after all. We just knew differently.

You haven't mentioned why you want Canada - that is equally important - you need another driver to push you on. When you get offered a job - and we all know that can be the hardest part - just take it, regardless of the salary or what you think you are worth. If you are that good, you will wow them and be promoted - but not until they have taken the risk that you may or may not work out for them - you are an unknown quantity who might run back home in 3 months....

Very good luck.

J-A-UK

It's the way it is !!

J-A-UK

well written ann

That's what I was trying to say :-)

take that job, that crappy job - I did and in 5 years now have the best job I have ever had.