dbd33

Well, they're not working class and they are the sort of people who have to buy their own furniture, so I don't know how else one might refer to them.

I grudgingly apologise, btw, to anyone coming to this thread thinking that there's an exciting truth to be told about Vancouver. Grudgingly because, good grief, it's in Canada, what exciting truth did you think there could be?

Oink

dbd33

What caused the dip in applications in 2012?

MarylandNed

https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...ions-drop-ucas

Oink

The dramatic rise in tuition fees from 3K to 9k that came into effect in Sept of 2012. The UK HE system is one that is still in the process of structural change so it hasn't quite found a consistent and predictable level. There's going to have to be differentiated fees. Like it or not, the market value of an Oxbridge education is not the same as the University of Watermouth.

dbd33

Ah, I did wonder if asking a lot of money for something that was previously reasonably priced might have suppressed demand. I note from MarylandNed's link that the government said it did not, which confirmed for me that it did.

I would expect differentiated fees to result in the expensive schools selling their product to people from abroad, savvy parents moving to Scotland and a loss of social mobility for the remainder of the population. The children of the well off would be able to attend second tier schools while the rest of us would be stuck with the University of East Anglia and the like.

Oink

HE institutions are resource sucking black holes and governments are always looking to transfer resources to more politically beneficial areas so like it or not, the genie is out of the bottle when it comes to tuition costs.
I'm not sure there will be a rise in international students because they are already being charged much higher fees. And it is a maxim in HE, that international students are considered the cash cow. As for the rest of us, is it not better for us to be stuck in the University of East Anglia rather than stuck down a coalmine or stuck on an assembly line pressing rivets on jeans for 10 hours a day?

Oink

And getting back on topic, I agree with this. The only reason Vancouver gets so much attention is that the rest of Canada is such a shithole.

Novocastrian

But it's only putting off the mine or the assembly line (if either still exist in the UK) for 3 or 4 years and costs perhaps 40-50K.

Oink

Yeah, but you can always while away the oppressive drudgery with an entertaining discussion about Weber or Mcluhan or whatever they teach in those newfangled plate glass institutions.

Almost Canadian

Is a qualification from expensive schools actually worth more than an identical qualification from less expensive schools?

While I am confident that someone in academia will provide me with a piece of research that shows it does, I recall from a legal case that I was once involved with that a similar piece of research showed that those that were offered places at a school in the US (I believe it was Yale, Harvard or some similar institution) but turned the place down actually earned slightly more than their peers that accepted the place.

Now, I have no idea if those institutions are expensive, but, from what has been stated above, I have inferred that they are.

Oink

I don't have specific data but there are many variables to consider in the cost-benefit of particular degree at a particular institution.

Almost Canadian

I don't doubt that at all.

In England I worked with some that had degrees from Oxbridge. Some of them were good lawyers, some of them were bad lawyers. The same could be said about those that obtained their law degrees from other universities.

While I accept that gaining entrance to such an institution may be a badge of honour for some, from my experience (and I appreciate that my sample size was relatively small) it had no bearing whatsoever upon their abilities once out of university and, therefore, their earning potential in law firms.

Novocastrian

I think it's mostly basket weaving and how to flip burgers in a way to catch the eye.

Oh, and barista training.

dbd33

Surely the one doesn't follow from the other, people don't earn more because they are more able but because they sell more (and they sell more for a variety of reasons. Connections, perhaps made at the right university, are an important factor).