Toronto or going back to London after 5 yrs, so confused!
Apr 20th 2014, 6:11 pm
#121
Best Place on Earth- LMAO
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: BC
Posts: 571
Re: Toronto or going back to London after 5 yrs, so confused!
I was excited about the possibilities and discovering a new place. my husband spent a year in Toronto, many years back before uni. He had a fair idea about the place and good old memories and was courius to try and live here for a while.
If I had two decent job offers in Toronto and London and had some decent capital I would chose London or at least the SE of England as London proper appears to be very expensive now. I grew up in Toronto and have lived in London a couple of times. To me in some ways the cities have a lot of similarities - large English speaking cities in the Commonwealth, both are cultural and financial centers, they both have a similar mix of people from the same parts of the world. But they also very different of course.
Apr 20th 2014, 6:17 pm
#122
.
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 20,185
Re: Toronto or going back to London after 5 yrs, so confused!
Quebec city definitely. Montreal and parts of Ottawa maybe. Toronto? I just don't see it.
I had a 2 week holiday to Vancouver years ago and dreamed of moving there. In retrospect I wish I had done more research and been more assertive. I wouldn't have moved here.
If I had two decent job offers in Toronto and London and had some decent capital I would chose London or at least the SE of England as London proper appears to be very expensive now. I grew up in Toronto and have lived in London a couple of times. To me in some ways the cities have a lot of similarities - large English speaking cities in the Commonwealth, both are cultural and financial centers, they both have a similar mix of people from the same parts of the world. But they also very different of course.
I had a 2 week holiday to Vancouver years ago and dreamed of moving there. In retrospect I wish I had done more research and been more assertive. I wouldn't have moved here.
If I had two decent job offers in Toronto and London and had some decent capital I would chose London or at least the SE of England as London proper appears to be very expensive now. I grew up in Toronto and have lived in London a couple of times. To me in some ways the cities have a lot of similarities - large English speaking cities in the Commonwealth, both are cultural and financial centers, they both have a similar mix of people from the same parts of the world. But they also very different of course.
Apr 21st 2014, 1:31 am
#126
Assimilated Pauper
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,018
Re: Toronto or going back to London after 5 yrs, so confused!
It's a bit weird to say that Toronto is a cultural centre for English speaking Canada when the culture in Toronto isn't conducted in English. I see merit in Toronto but it's all about the immigrants, the diversity of food and language. If that's really all Canada has for English culture then the baked bean tin is a way ahead.
Apr 21st 2014, 7:21 am
#127
Best Place on Earth- LMAO
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: BC
Posts: 571
Re: Toronto or going back to London after 5 yrs, so confused!
I didn't say Toronto had much to do with English culture. I meant it is a cultural center for English-speaking or if you will, TROC (the rest of Canada outside Quebec). - for example it's a center of theatre, film/tv (eg. TIFF), radio (CBC is based there), publishing industry is centered there, largest university in Canada.
Apr 21st 2014, 12:56 pm
#128
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 181
Re: Toronto or going back to London after 5 yrs, so confused!
I know both cities quite well, I guess both have ups and downs like anything else in life. Most of my statements however are just observations, based on my personal experience.
London has better public transport, in terms of frequency of service and rail network. The absence of a similar service causes more traffic jams in Toronto.
London tends to attract more foreign capital, especially from Russia, India, China, etc...
London has naturally more culture, since it is a European city. I think many Brits seem to miss that more than they care to admit.
London seems to offer in general more higher paid jobs than Toronto, especially in the finance industry.
Employment contract seem to offer more vacation in London, than in Canada.
London offers better deals on flights than Toronto, flights compared by similar distance of travel at lower prices.
The education/schooling system appears better in Canada, not always in quality, but in the way students/pupils are treated, interaction with teachers etc...
NHS vs. OHIP, I can't really comment, neither had to use both, fortunately. Things seem cleaner though and more hygienic , in Canada.
Toronto and the whole GTA is more sprawling, and seems to be getting bigger and bigger, especially in places like Markham or Brampton. Some places tend to be "bedroom communities", and public transport is not as good as in London.
Properties seem almost everywhere more affordable in the GTA, however the property tax seems higher than the British council tax. Houses and condos are more spacious in Toronto.
Service charges for condos seem to be more expensive in Toronto than in London.
Toronto offers more green spaces, like the Toronto Islands and Tomy Thompson's Park. I always enjoy a nice long walk on the Toronto Islands and a bright summer day.
Going out for food and drinks seems cheaper in London, than Toronto.
I find the multicultural places/ethnic background of Toronto more pleasant than in London, however I miss the typical UK Asian take-away from London in Toronto.
Quality of TV seems worse in Canada, radio seems similar in quality to the UK, with the CBC Radio 1 and Radio 2 in place.
London has rougher neighborhoods and the gap between the ones who have and the ones who don't seems bigger in London than in Toronto.
Toronto seems more laid back, more easy going than London.
The dull-gray sky in London can be a bit depressing at times. Toronto is more extreme in weather, either being hot and humid, and clear skies in summer or windy, cold, snowy and icy in winter. I think that Brits are struggling with the strong winters in the beginning when they come here.
People tend to be more prepared to pay more for services and food, etc. than in the UK.
London has better museums and they are all for free. British Museum, Imperial War Museum, Air-Force Museum in Colindale, Similar Museums in Canada can be found in Ottawa, not in Toronto.
London has better public transport, in terms of frequency of service and rail network. The absence of a similar service causes more traffic jams in Toronto.
London tends to attract more foreign capital, especially from Russia, India, China, etc...
London has naturally more culture, since it is a European city. I think many Brits seem to miss that more than they care to admit.
London seems to offer in general more higher paid jobs than Toronto, especially in the finance industry.
Employment contract seem to offer more vacation in London, than in Canada.
London offers better deals on flights than Toronto, flights compared by similar distance of travel at lower prices.
The education/schooling system appears better in Canada, not always in quality, but in the way students/pupils are treated, interaction with teachers etc...
NHS vs. OHIP, I can't really comment, neither had to use both, fortunately. Things seem cleaner though and more hygienic , in Canada.
Toronto and the whole GTA is more sprawling, and seems to be getting bigger and bigger, especially in places like Markham or Brampton. Some places tend to be "bedroom communities", and public transport is not as good as in London.
Properties seem almost everywhere more affordable in the GTA, however the property tax seems higher than the British council tax. Houses and condos are more spacious in Toronto.
Service charges for condos seem to be more expensive in Toronto than in London.
Toronto offers more green spaces, like the Toronto Islands and Tomy Thompson's Park. I always enjoy a nice long walk on the Toronto Islands and a bright summer day.
Going out for food and drinks seems cheaper in London, than Toronto.
I find the multicultural places/ethnic background of Toronto more pleasant than in London, however I miss the typical UK Asian take-away from London in Toronto.
Quality of TV seems worse in Canada, radio seems similar in quality to the UK, with the CBC Radio 1 and Radio 2 in place.
London has rougher neighborhoods and the gap between the ones who have and the ones who don't seems bigger in London than in Toronto.
Toronto seems more laid back, more easy going than London.
The dull-gray sky in London can be a bit depressing at times. Toronto is more extreme in weather, either being hot and humid, and clear skies in summer or windy, cold, snowy and icy in winter. I think that Brits are struggling with the strong winters in the beginning when they come here.
People tend to be more prepared to pay more for services and food, etc. than in the UK.
London has better museums and they are all for free. British Museum, Imperial War Museum, Air-Force Museum in Colindale, Similar Museums in Canada can be found in Ottawa, not in Toronto.
Apr 27th 2014, 2:58 am
#129
been there, done that
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2014
Location: Toronto
Posts: 56
Re: Toronto or going back to London after 5 yrs, so confused!
It's been 5+ years since we left the UK and moved to Toronto. We were expecting our second baby at the time and had a 4 yr old.
We were living in London and had good jobs and a house we just finished renovating but we felt the pressure of the big city and cost of living and needed a change.
As We were pregnant we thought the timing is right and we should have our baby on the other side of the pond and start afresh. Immigration was a non issue as my partner has dual nationalities and carries Canadian citizenship, but have never lived in Canada.
We love London dearly and feel so proud and lucky to have lived there and experience the most inspiring, exciting city in the world. Our departure was a bit of an adventure, taking the opportunity to try new life experience in a place people always refer to as the land of opportunities, safe, clean, family friendly, nice kind of place with high quality of life.
5 years on we are not too convinced. Still questioning what to do and if to go back.We recognize great things about Canada and Toronto but it's far away from being the dream life. First of all it's so boring, we can't get over the fact that the city is so ugly (aesthetic is very important to us) and what property is selling for (what you buy for your money here is shocking). The American culture is so dominant and we find it difficult to associate with the culture all together. Even TV and radio.. It's all BBC in our house.
As individuals, the people are super nice and we have made lots of lovely friends. Our kids are very happy and have tons of friends and busy social life. School is pretty good (although I am not sure it's so different to what we will have in London). They still teach too much about Canada and so little about the world.
There is a lot to be said for live here and yes, overall we are financially better off and have good things going for us but the soul is suffering and we miss home and family.
Our oldest is now 9yr and and we have 5yr old. We are in a critical point of making a decision about moving or staying. Our main reason to stay is our son who might get a shock moving to London and dealing with society. We feel kids in London are thoughter and "street wise" in a way kids in Canada are not. He is a very sociable child and already know people there ( our family and friends all live there).
Second is the cost of living and being able to afford all the things we can give our kids here.
On the other hand, we dwell all the things we can't give our kids here.. Like being exposed to all that rich experiance that London and the UK has to offer. (We have exhausted the ROM and the AGO to death..) Denying them from being close to family and our closest friends and their kids. I hear my kids speak in this heavy Canadian accent and it do feel a bit sad.
Do we really want to bring them up as Canadains? We are so torn.
On the quality of live question my answer is that we work hard here as we did back home. We both have demanding jobs and work full time. We don't see the kids as much as we thought it would be , balanced work-life situation don't happen in Toronto, I think, if you have a full time job and two kids.
Sometime it feels like we work even harder here. Less holiday as well so even if we can afford to travel neither of us have tones of time to take off.
We are scared of moving back because we don't want to disturb our kids too much and get sucked into financial squeeze, also the fact that we would need to sell and buy a bigger house in London scare us as we are well aware of the property frensie that is going on at the moment in the Capital and worried what we will be able to afford near a good school.
If anyone experiencing the same situation please let us know what your thought are. We can not decide and every morning we feel completely differently about moving back. It's a turture! We are also running out of time. If we left it another year or two it will be even harder to move back and seems very unlikely unrooting a 10,11,12 yr old. It is this summer or never!
Toronto vs London. Who wins?
We were living in London and had good jobs and a house we just finished renovating but we felt the pressure of the big city and cost of living and needed a change.
As We were pregnant we thought the timing is right and we should have our baby on the other side of the pond and start afresh. Immigration was a non issue as my partner has dual nationalities and carries Canadian citizenship, but have never lived in Canada.
We love London dearly and feel so proud and lucky to have lived there and experience the most inspiring, exciting city in the world. Our departure was a bit of an adventure, taking the opportunity to try new life experience in a place people always refer to as the land of opportunities, safe, clean, family friendly, nice kind of place with high quality of life.
5 years on we are not too convinced. Still questioning what to do and if to go back.We recognize great things about Canada and Toronto but it's far away from being the dream life. First of all it's so boring, we can't get over the fact that the city is so ugly (aesthetic is very important to us) and what property is selling for (what you buy for your money here is shocking). The American culture is so dominant and we find it difficult to associate with the culture all together. Even TV and radio.. It's all BBC in our house.
As individuals, the people are super nice and we have made lots of lovely friends. Our kids are very happy and have tons of friends and busy social life. School is pretty good (although I am not sure it's so different to what we will have in London). They still teach too much about Canada and so little about the world.
There is a lot to be said for live here and yes, overall we are financially better off and have good things going for us but the soul is suffering and we miss home and family.
Our oldest is now 9yr and and we have 5yr old. We are in a critical point of making a decision about moving or staying. Our main reason to stay is our son who might get a shock moving to London and dealing with society. We feel kids in London are thoughter and "street wise" in a way kids in Canada are not. He is a very sociable child and already know people there ( our family and friends all live there).
Second is the cost of living and being able to afford all the things we can give our kids here.
On the other hand, we dwell all the things we can't give our kids here.. Like being exposed to all that rich experiance that London and the UK has to offer. (We have exhausted the ROM and the AGO to death..) Denying them from being close to family and our closest friends and their kids. I hear my kids speak in this heavy Canadian accent and it do feel a bit sad.
Do we really want to bring them up as Canadains? We are so torn.
On the quality of live question my answer is that we work hard here as we did back home. We both have demanding jobs and work full time. We don't see the kids as much as we thought it would be , balanced work-life situation don't happen in Toronto, I think, if you have a full time job and two kids.
Sometime it feels like we work even harder here. Less holiday as well so even if we can afford to travel neither of us have tones of time to take off.
We are scared of moving back because we don't want to disturb our kids too much and get sucked into financial squeeze, also the fact that we would need to sell and buy a bigger house in London scare us as we are well aware of the property frensie that is going on at the moment in the Capital and worried what we will be able to afford near a good school.
If anyone experiencing the same situation please let us know what your thought are. We can not decide and every morning we feel completely differently about moving back. It's a turture! We are also running out of time. If we left it another year or two it will be even harder to move back and seems very unlikely unrooting a 10,11,12 yr old. It is this summer or never!
Toronto vs London. Who wins?
It was an extremely helpful conversation for me to have and share on this forum which definitely assisted with our decision and now I wanted to share it with you.
We are going back home. Back to London. For better or worse London is where our heart is.
I guess I will surface again soon on the "moving back to the UK" forum, but keep this debate open for future expats struggling with this huge question or considering moving here.
Cheers.
Apr 27th 2014, 1:04 pm
#130
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 992
Re: Toronto or going back to London after 5 yrs, so confused!
Best of luck on your move back home. Home is where the heart is..
Apr 27th 2014, 2:54 pm
#131
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Sep 2013
Location: SW Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,960
Re: Toronto or going back to London after 5 yrs, so confused!
Good for you, phr1! Hope you are happier at home 
Apr 27th 2014, 7:07 pm
#132
BE Forum Addict
Joined: May 2012
Location: Qc, Canada
Posts: 3,787
Re: Toronto or going back to London after 5 yrs, so confused!
We are going back home. Back to London. For better or worse London is where our heart is.
I guess I will surface again soon on the "moving back to the UK" forum, but keep this debate open for future expats struggling with this huge question or considering moving here.
Cheers.
I guess I will surface again soon on the "moving back to the UK" forum, but keep this debate open for future expats struggling with this huge question or considering moving here.
Cheers.
that's often the hardest part S
