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Is there still a mad rush for Canada in U.K.?

Is there still a mad rush for Canada in U.K.?

Old Dec 20th 2006, 3:11 pm
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Default Re: Is there still a mad rush for Canada in U.K.?

My burning question is that if the Canadians are so deperate on wanting skilled workers, why do you need Canadain experience so badly.
Remember that the Canadian civil service which runs the immigration system, supervised by burocrats (easier spelling) and overseen by politicians is not that much different from its British equivalent, nor is it any more transparent or understandable ! But what I think applies in both countries is that people in each of the levels involved have agendas that don't necessarily jigsaw. To elaborate, the civil servant is just doing a job, and what he's told. No surprise. In many cases he couldn't care less whether the system works or not. His mind is on his paycheque, and whether it will be enough for this or that, and only occasionally might he wonder if the things he is doing on behalf of some poor sod across the pond is ethical. Those things he leaves up to his boss, the burocrat. This guy, in turn is pulled two ways at once, by his political masters and his constant concern that his minions are doing their job right. Another part of his brain too, is always focussed on how to climb the next rung of his particular ladder, so if a work problem arises that he thinks he has a solution for, and would also help him up, he acts on it. If on the other hand, even knowing what the proper answer is, he also knows that acting on it would do his career harm, he would have to be an exceedingly moral type to do so anyway, regardless. How many of them are there around? So, faced with that situation, he waffles, and leaves the decision to his boss, the minister. This person, in turn, as we all know, has two masters, us and the prime minister. But the prime minister (at least in Commonwealth countries) is also between the devil and the deep. Us (again) and those who really own and direct the countries, the corporations, cartels, and faceless individuals with power beyond imagining.

So, to try and unravel why the wait is five years and not a reasonable period, like, say, six to twelve months, is nigh on impossible. Changes in the points system is just the tip of the iceberg, as is inappropriate employment of well trained professionals, and simply saying it is wrong (which it obviously is) probably has little or no effect on those who create the changes. Having to have Canadian work experience is, I feel, bound up in the unwritten rules that the "establishment" impose on the country, which maintain them in their positions. Allowing foreigners to come over, and start work right away in their own field without adequate controls, runs the risk - for them - of uncontrolled foreign influence jeopardizing their hold. Sounds bizarre, but thats the way it is.

Look what PC immigration rules has done to Britain !
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Old Dec 20th 2006, 3:19 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: Is there still a mad rush for Canada in U.K.?

I aspire to be a "Faceless individual with power beyond imagining."

Are there courses one could take? A Phd in 'Unsavoury and Boundless use of Power' perhaps?
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Old Dec 20th 2006, 3:41 pm
  #33  
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Default Re: Is there still a mad rush for Canada in U.K.?

Originally Posted by ontres
Remember that the Canadian civil service which runs the immigration system, supervised by burocrats (easier spelling) and overseen by politicians is not that much different from its British equivalent, nor is it any more transparent or understandable ! But what I think applies in both countries is that people in each of the levels involved have agendas that don't necessarily jigsaw. To elaborate, the civil servant is just doing a job, and what he's told. No surprise. In many cases he couldn't care less whether the system works or not. His mind is on his paycheque, and whether it will be enough for this or that, and only occasionally might he wonder if the things he is doing on behalf of some poor sod across the pond is ethical. Those things he leaves up to his boss, the burocrat. This guy, in turn is pulled two ways at once, by his political masters and his constant concern that his minions are doing their job right. Another part of his brain too, is always focussed on how to climb the next rung of his particular ladder, so if a work problem arises that he thinks he has a solution for, and would also help him up, he acts on it. If on the other hand, even knowing what the proper answer is, he also knows that acting on it would do his career harm, he would have to be an exceedingly moral type to do so anyway, regardless. How many of them are there around? So, faced with that situation, he waffles, and leaves the decision to his boss, the minister. This person, in turn, as we all know, has two masters, us and the prime minister. But the prime minister (at least in Commonwealth countries) is also between the devil and the deep. Us (again) and those who really own and direct the countries, the corporations, cartels, and faceless individuals with power beyond imagining.

So, to try and unravel why the wait is five years and not a reasonable period, like, say, six to twelve months, is nigh on impossible. Changes in the points system is just the tip of the iceberg, as is inappropriate employment of well trained professionals, and simply saying it is wrong (which it obviously is) probably has little or no effect on those who create the changes. Having to have Canadian work experience is, I feel, bound up in the unwritten rules that the "establishment" impose on the country, which maintain them in their positions. Allowing foreigners to come over, and start work right away in their own field without adequate controls, runs the risk - for them - of uncontrolled foreign influence jeopardizing their hold. Sounds bizarre, but thats the way it is.

Look what PC immigration rules has done to Britain !
Isn't it the individual employers that decide whether they want to employ a new immigrant or not, rather than the bureaucrats or the policitians ?

If an employer wants "canadian experience" then isn't that a matter for the employer ? I would imagine that, for some employers it is a relevant issue whilst for others it isn't. I don't see why people bitch about this particular aspect so much. I appreciate that it is very incovenient but, if it can be justified, isn't unreasonable.

I would imagine that in the service sector, understanding what Canadians mean when they ask for certain things (rather than having to explain them to some immigrant who doesn't understand what they are going on about) is an important consideration that employers would need to consider when deciding whether to take on someone without "canadian experience". It's just a lesson that Tim Hortons hasn't learned yet
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Old Dec 20th 2006, 3:56 pm
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Default Re: Is there still a mad rush for Canada in U.K.?

Originally Posted by Dying to leave England

I would imagine that in the service sector, understanding what Canadians mean when they ask for certain things (rather than having to explain them to some immigrant who doesn't understand what they are going on about) is an important consideration that employers would need to consider when deciding whether to take on someone without "canadian experience".
Logically that makes sense, but my experience in the vast majority of my interactions with canadian service industry providers would tend to indicate that its not just Tim Hortons who havent learned that.

Perhaps the plan is to have someone from every conceivable country, that way when a new non english speaking immigrant calls up for service, they can be transferred to a native language speaker who can understand and help.

Would it be considered rude to just ask to be transferred to the inevitable new british immigrant working there?

Last edited by iaink; Dec 20th 2006 at 4:02 pm.
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Old Dec 20th 2006, 4:01 pm
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Default Re: Is there still a mad rush for Canada in U.K.?

Originally Posted by iaink
Logically that makes sense, but my experience in the vast majority of my interactions with canadian service industry providers would tend to indicate that its not just Tim Hortons who havent learned that.

Perhaps the plan is to have someone from every conceivable country, that way when a new non english speaking immigrant calls up for help, they can be transferred to a native language speaker ho can service them.

Would it be considered rude to just ask to be transferred to the inevitable new british immigrant working there?
Around here there's very little chance of service industry customers having Canadian experience.
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Old Dec 20th 2006, 4:27 pm
  #36  
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Default Re: Is there still a mad rush for Canada in U.K.?

Originally Posted by dbd33
Around here there's very little chance of service industry customers having Canadian experience.
Any experience at all would be useful in some places. I went to the ford dealer a while back for a reversing light switch and the guy ordered me up an oil pressure switch, i questioned the fact it looked different to the one on the car and he just shrugged his shoulders and said bring it back if it's not correct.
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Old Dec 20th 2006, 4:39 pm
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Default Re: Is there still a mad rush for Canada in U.K.?

Are there courses one could take? A Phd in 'Unsavoury and Boundless use of Power' perhaps?[/
QUOTE]

Thats only 'Faceless' 101. But it would be a good start.
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Old Dec 20th 2006, 5:05 pm
  #38  
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Default Re: Is there still a mad rush for Canada in U.K.?

If an employer wants "canadian experience" then isn't that a matter for the employer ?
Granted, but legit employers are influenced also, and largely by the requirement to abide by such as the 'Income Tax Act', UIC etc considerations. If they don't, they run the risk of govt interference.

I don't see why people bitch about this particular aspect so much.
This board exists by the input from, and benefit of individuals who are likely (or at least could possibly be) on the receiving end of an inapproprate employment sinkhole. Think of it from their point of view. Their right to bitch is well entrenched I would say. (Or am I reading you wrong?)

...... some immigrant who doesn't understand what they are going on about) is an important consideration that employers would need to consider when deciding whether to take on someone without "canadian experience".
True.

It's just a lesson that Tim Hortons hasn't learned yet
Never had that experience in Timmy's, but if true, then yes, they should smarten up.
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Old Dec 20th 2006, 5:10 pm
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Default Re: Is there still a mad rush for Canada in U.K.?

Would it be considered rude to just ask to be transferred to the inevitable new british immigrant working there ?
Depends on whether 'faceless' thinks it would be in his best interests or not.
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Old Dec 22nd 2006, 1:18 am
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Default Re: Is there still a mad rush for Canada in U.K.?

[QUOTE=ontres]
So, to try and unravel why the wait is five years and not a reasonable period, like, say, six to twelve months, is nigh on impossible. Changes in the points system is just the tip of the iceberg, as is inappropriate employment of well trained professionals, and simply saying it is wrong (which it obviously is) probably has little or no effect on those who create the changes. Having to have Canadian work experience is, I feel, bound up in the unwritten rules that the "establishment" impose on the country, which maintain them in their positions. Allowing foreigners to come over, and start work right away in their own field without adequate controls, runs the risk - for them - of uncontrolled foreign influence jeopardizing their hold. Sounds bizarre, but thats the way it is.

I think the 5 year wait is a simple question of logistics - there are so many people wanting to come to Canada (if i remember correctly 250,000, from UK alone) this will take an awful lot of time to process if your at the back of the queue.

I did mention before about my brother working in IT - which is a very generic occupation ie if you work on Windows 2000 servers in the UK, then isn't this the same in Canada. Isn't Cisco in UK the same as Cisco in Canada? He also has a degree in IT.


There seems to be a culture of sticking with the same company in Canada, more than her in the UK, or are people just wary of change, or even worse, speaking out against the establishment.
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Old Dec 22nd 2006, 3:55 pm
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Default Re: Is there still a mad rush for Canada in U.K.?

I think the 5 year wait is a simple question of logistics - there are so many people wanting to come to Canada (if i remember correctly 250,000, from UK alone) this will take an awful lot of time to process if your at the back of the queue.
Quite right, but my cynical side still maintains that the establishment guides the system.
I did mention before about my brother working in IT - which is a very generic occupation ie if you work on Windows 2000 servers in the UK, then isn't this the same in Canada. Isn't Cisco in UK the same as Cisco in Canada? He also has a degree in IT.
I think that where a job is specific, needing internationally recognized training because of its global nature (ie IT as you say) the standards, methods and procedures are very easy to transfer (as a result eg the fact that you and I are communicating like this now, instead of you having to look up what my smoke signals mean.) But a wide range of things in other professional areas that on the surface may appear to be instantly tranferrable, in fact aren't. For instance, if I need serious medical treatment, I want to be quite certain that the people treating me have the knowledge and ability that I know is available in the Canadian medical training system. I don't want to take a chance with someone just off the boat who hasn't shown what he knows, and may cut off the wrong leg. On the other hand, it may be that he is even more knowledgeable than home-grown equivalents, but I don't know that, and I'm not going to take that risk. The re-evaluation process takes time for such professions, properly so. Keep in mind that partly because of things like that you have chosen to come here, although you may not know it.

There seems to be a culture of sticking with the same company in Canada, more than here in the UK .......
I don't really think there's that much difference. I think it depends on the kind of work.

...... are people just wary of change .........
Yes, and it's nothing new.

.......or even worse, speaking out against the establishment
They speak out for or against that part of the establishment that they can see hear and touch (government bodies, management etc) but these people only do the bidding of those really in charge, and in a sense partly earn their money by acting as their shield. (from Cynicism 101).
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Old Dec 24th 2006, 12:05 am
  #42  
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Default Re: Is there still a mad rush for Canada in U.K.?

That 5 year wait is shocking, Just today i heared on the news our service Industry has gone to the dogs as there is a huge shortage of people. (I'm In B.c) You should see the want Ads for ALL sorts of people Electricens,plumbers, Labours,cleaners, and of course Wal=mart etc. there are pages of them ......


Originally Posted by MarkG
There's nearly a five-year waiting list, if that's any help?

I would guess the insane wait has put off plenty of people who would otherwise be looking at emigrating.
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Old Jan 2nd 2007, 11:55 pm
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Default Re: Is there still a mad rush for Canada in U.K.?

Well after 27 months we have just recieved our medical request - unfortunately we are having to wait as I am 7.5 months pregnant, so they will get done when baby is here.

Hopefully then able to get our visas for the summer - but its been a long wait so a few more months will make no difference, we are just glad to have got this far, thank goodness its not 5 years.

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Old Jan 7th 2007, 12:05 pm
  #44  
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Default Re: Is there still a mad rush for Canada in U.K.?

Originally Posted by jeannie View Post
That 5 year wait is shocking, Just today i heared on the news our service Industry has gone to the dogs as there is a huge shortage of people. (I'm In B.c) You should see the want Ads for ALL sorts of people Electricens,plumbers, Labours,cleaners, and of course Wal=mart etc. there are pages of them ......
Hi Jeannie
Can you plaese confirm that there is still an labour shortage in BC, as my husband and i are considering moving to BC, he is a UK time served fully quaified Construction electrician, and we have been considering applying for PR, but seeing the length of wait that some of the other members have had, it is making us consider the other possibilties..ie: tempoary work permits.
This would then give us an idea of what it is like to live and work in canada, but also means that if we do not like it then we can come home to the UK.
We have two children (14 & 9) who we would have to arrange schools for, could you tell me what the schools are like in BC. Any help any one can give would be appreciated. Thanks
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Old Jan 7th 2007, 5:01 pm
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Default Re: Is there still a mad rush for Canada in U.K.?

Originally Posted by kazclan View Post
Hi Jeannie
Can you plaese confirm that there is still an labour shortage in BC,
Sure is, but question is how long the "boom" will last

From the Vancouver Sun


Record employment for B.C.
ECONOMY I 10,000 new positions keep unemployment close to 30-year low

Published: Saturday, January 06, 2007
British Columbia's robust economy added 10,000 jobs in December, pushing employment to a record high while holding unemployment close to a 30-year low, Statistics Canada said Friday.

Economists suggest strong job growth nationally and better than expected employment numbers out of the U.S. should dampen any talk of an early move by the Bank of Canada to trim interest rates.

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/n...61be03&k=22153
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