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Test Automation/QA/IT Engineers

Test Automation/QA/IT Engineers

Old Jun 12th 2019, 7:15 am
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Default Test Automation/QA/IT Engineers

Hi All,

Posted a few times before and many of you have been really helpful!

Is there any Test Engineers/Automation Engineers/IT professionals on here? I have now obtained my work permit and looking to move to Toronto late this year so trying to network and get an insight on the following:

1) Job prospects in the above roles in Toronto - The UK market is extremely strong for the mentioned professions at the moment, so as you can imagine I'm very nervous as Toronto is a job market i'm not familiar with
2) Competition - As I lack 'Canadian Experience' I am trying to make myself more lucrative - Have 4 years experience as a Test Engineer (AWS Certified, Big Data, Front End UI Automation, Government and Blue Chip companies on the Resume) any other in-demand trends in Toronto that I may not be aware of?
3) Contracting - I have the IEC work permit and have searched for information to no avail; Is it possible to contract on an IEC Visa and would this count towards PR
4) Salary - I know this is extremely vague as it can be impacted by a multitude of factors but just require an idea so I can plan finances accordingly. How much would the expectation be for a Test Engineer with 4-5 years experience be?

Any input is always appreciated :slightly_smiling_face:

Uzzy

Last edited by Usmaan.W; Jun 12th 2019 at 7:28 am.
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Old Jun 12th 2019, 2:02 pm
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Default Re: Test Automation/QA/IT Engineers

Hello,
I'm a Senior QA (specifically focused the iOS platform) in a software development team. Primarily it's manual testing, but we do have an automation team, and that's where I'll be shifting focus later on.

There are various websites you could look at for opportunities; LinkedIn, and Glassdoor are two that spring to mind.

If you already have a work permit that allows you to work for any employer, then I believe that you would be able to work as a contractor. There may be some areas where you cannot work (health care, working with children) but they should be stated on the work permit itself. As for competition, well, you're already authorized to work in Canada, so that is an advantage, no need for the company to go through the process of a LMIA.

As for salary, truth be told, no idea what the going rate would be. The aforementioned websites above should give an indication of possible salaries.
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Old Jun 12th 2019, 4:31 pm
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Default Re: Test Automation/QA/IT Engineers

Hey Sharkus!

Nice to meet someone else in the same field on here

Thanks for the info you provided, how do you personally find the job market out there in this field? Did you find it easy to obtain your job?

Any recruitment agencies you'd recommend on LinkedIn?

Thanks

Uzzy
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Old Jun 12th 2019, 7:40 pm
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Default Re: Test Automation/QA/IT Engineers

I've not actually looked at jobs recently as I've been with my current employer for around 9 years. I was very lucky as a friend of mine, who I'd worked with for quite a few years, had changed jobs and I asked if there were any positions available (the company I worked for was closing), and he was able to get me into the QA team.

I don't have any recommendations for recruitment agencies, mainly as I've not yet used one over here.
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Old Jun 13th 2019, 6:52 am
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Default Re: Test Automation/QA/IT Engineers

Welcome back - exciting times ahead! While you have your LOI (Letter Of Introduction) you won't obtain the work permit until you arrive in Canada - you will need your LOI, proof of funds and insurance and arrive in Canada prior to the expiry date - and will then be issued with your work permit.

One thing to bear in mind is the terminology - Engineer is a protected title in Canada so you may want to start looking at jobs that say 'technician'. Have you checked to see if your profession is regulated in Ontario? Toronto isn't the only place with IT jobs- you might want to look at Kitchener/Waterloo/Guelph as well

2283 Information systems testing technicians
2173 Software engineers and designers

Whilst being a contractor is useful if you aren't sure about getting a permanent position, if you want to go for Permanet Residency at a later stage then a permanent job where you can get a year of Canadian Experience (or 2 part time jobs) would help you.

You might find our wiki of help with job hunting (including some agencies) https://britishexpats.com/wiki/Quick...uctions-Canada
https://britishexpats.com/wiki/Findi...unities-Canada (pan down to IT for agencies)
https://www.jobbank.gc.ca/home
www.indeed.ca
www.workopolis.ca

LinkedIn isn't an agency - more a place to make connections in the industry or check out jobs that might be available

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs?trk=si...30935719_namer

Last edited by Siouxie; Jun 13th 2019 at 6:59 am.
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Old Jun 18th 2019, 10:24 am
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Default Re: Test Automation/QA/IT Engineers

Originally Posted by sharkus View Post
If you already have a work permit that allows you to work for any employer, then I believe that you would be able to work as a contractor.
I can confirm that you can because I've done it. Unless you're extremely specialist though and are looking for a very high day rate then the self-employed consultant thing isn't as popular in the Canadian IT market as it is in the UK from my experience. Most agencies or employers will just take you on under a fixed term employee contract instead. The good news there is that you will get standard workers rights, will not have to do your own taxes and securing PR can be all that bit more straightforward. The bad news is that you will work the same hours as everyone else but won't receive any benefits, paid vacation time etc.

And Siouxie is totally right. Unless you specifically have a MEng or some sort of IT certification that qualifies you as an engineer (e.g. the old MCSE) then get that word off your CV. It's a protected term in Canada and won't do you any favours when your submitting job applications.

Last edited by DigitalGhost; Jun 18th 2019 at 10:27 am.
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Old Jun 18th 2019, 11:04 am
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Default Re: Test Automation/QA/IT Engineers

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
I Most agencies or employers will just take you on under a fixed term employee contract instead. The good news there is that you will get standard workers rights, will not have to do your own taxes and securing PR can be all that bit more straightforward. The bad news is that you will work the same hours as everyone else but won't receive any benefits, paid vacation time etc.
I've never heard of such an arrangement. what would be the point, to the "employer" of paying people hourly and also giving them workers rights? Why would the contractor want to be taxed and yet not get paid for statutory holidays?

The deal usually is that the worker is paid a gross hourly rate for hours actually worked and that's the only involvement of the payer.
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Old Jun 18th 2019, 11:10 am
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Default Re: Test Automation/QA/IT Engineers

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
I've never heard of such an arrangement. what would be the point, to the "employer" of paying people hourly and also giving them workers rights? Why would the contractor want to be taxed and yet not get paid for statutory holidays?

The deal usually is that the worker is paid a gross hourly rate for hours actually worked and that's the only involvement of the payer.
I worked that way for one employer in Canada for nearly 12 months. I received everything the FTE's did including paid public holidays off, OT at double pay and a Christmas bonus. I just didn't receive paid vacation time or certain extensive benefits like the private pension and healthcare scheme.
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Old Jun 18th 2019, 12:46 pm
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Default Re: Test Automation/QA/IT Engineers

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
I worked that way for one employer in Canada for nearly 12 months. I received everything the FTE's did including paid public holidays off, OT at double pay and a Christmas bonus. I just didn't receive paid vacation time or certain extensive benefits like the private pension and healthcare scheme.
If you were happy with that arrangement, fair enough.
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Old Jun 18th 2019, 1:10 pm
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Default Re: Test Automation/QA/IT Engineers

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
If you were happy with that arrangement, fair enough.
It was fine. I enjoyed the job, was well paid for it and had very, very little Canadian work experience at the time. I found it much easier than the situation in the UK where you often have to worry about creating your own incorporated company or dealing with (and paying for) umbrella services etc. The tax advantages that used to offset the additional hassle of working that way in the UK mostly no longer exist either.
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Old Jun 18th 2019, 1:22 pm
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Default Re: Test Automation/QA/IT Engineers

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
It was fine. I enjoyed the job, was well paid for it and had very, very little Canadian work experience at the time. I found it much easier than the situation in the UK where you often have to worry about creating your own incorporated company or dealing with (and paying for) umbrella services etc. The tax advantages that used to offset the additional hassle of working that way in the UK mostly no longer exist either.
It is true that the tax advantages have mostly gone here too. Contractors have generally gone from being highly paid consultants to hourly paid, benefit less, de facto, employees. An advantage though is that six month contracts once meant changing jobs every six months, now they'll revolve indefinitely.

At the same time, the terms of employment for actual employees have worsened in all markets; defined benefit pensions, for example, have largely gone away. The combination of reasonably high pay and massive benefits really exists now only in government jobs. Thus contract positions are still better in the short term but not by the margin that once applied.
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Old Jun 18th 2019, 1:35 pm
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Default Re: Test Automation/QA/IT Engineers

Thanks for all your replies!

Seems like the contracting situation out in Canada is quite different from the UK. Although I'm impartial to a permanent role or contract it was important that the latter counted towards experience for PR... which it does.

As for the job title, again this is something new to me that the 'engineer' title is so regulated. In the UK my job title is 'Software Test Engineer' so I would need to find an alternative job title to apply for in Canada that matches my skillset.


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Old Jun 18th 2019, 1:49 pm
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Default Re: Test Automation/QA/IT Engineers

Originally Posted by Usmaan.W View Post
Thanks for all your replies!

Seems like the contracting situation out in Canada is quite different from the UK. Although I'm impartial to a permanent role or contract it was important that the latter counted towards experience for PR... which it does.

As for the job title, again this is something new to me that the 'engineer' title is so regulated. In the UK my job title is 'Software Test Engineer' so I would need to find an alternative job title to apply for in Canada that matches my skillset.


Uzzy
IMHO you don't need to worry about the NOC too much at this stage. Worry about that if/when you decide to apply for PR. From my experience actual employers in Canada seem to pay very little attention to it and will still create their own obscure job titles in the same way that UK employers do. The only difference is that Engineer is a protected word in Canada whereas it isn't on the UK market. Simply changing your previous job title something like Software Test Analyst or Software Tester should be sufficient. The responsibilities and experience matter much more than the job title.

Any kind of skilled work experience can count towards PR. I believe it can be tricky to provide the required paperwork if you're self employed though whereas a temporary worker can just request the same kind of reference letters as an FTE.
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Old Jun 18th 2019, 1:50 pm
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Default Re: Test Automation/QA/IT Engineers

I just looked in linkedin at 10 profiles of developers I know. 8 of them use "Software Engineer" or similar as a job title. I know people don't like the term on this board and there may be an issue in a company that includes other types of engineers but it is in common use in Ontrario. I would put something like "Automated Testing Guru" in the title line and "Software Test Engineer" as the job title in the section describing positions held.
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Old Jun 18th 2019, 1:52 pm
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Default Re: Test Automation/QA/IT Engineers

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
At the same time, the terms of employment for actual employees have worsened in all markets; defined benefit pensions, for example, have largely gone away. The combination of reasonably high pay and massive benefits really exists now only in government jobs. Thus contract positions are still better in the short term but not by the margin that once applied.
That's a strange and quite surprising one since reports seem to suggest that the Canadian job market is booming right now, especially in Ontario and with increased demand for employees normally comes improved terms so companies can secure the best people. Unless Canada is fudging its employment statistics in the similar way to how the UK has been doing since 2010-ish.
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