Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
Jan 6th 2010, 10:12 pm
#31
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: South of Calgary
Posts: 13,374
Jan 7th 2010, 12:59 am
#32
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Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 373
Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
My wife is a Canadian teacher, who taught in England for the first 4 years of her career. She taught in a terrible school in England (knife fights at playtime etc) and a very good school here, so she certainly prefers teaching in Calgary. She still has trouble makers in her class, but they are a small minority, and are mostly tame compared to England. She finds it funny that in their sheltered little worlds they think they're hard, but they'd be eaten alive in some English schools!
Assessment of teachers is performed by the school, rather than external assessors. Last year, one of the parents in her class made complaints about the school's Head and Deputy Head, so the board had to get involved, but there wasn't the same presumption of guilt that seems to apply in such cases in England. After a hearing, the board sided with the school.
She spent her first year on a temporary contract and is now on a probationary contract, so she has to go through the usual assessments and administrative hoops to get that converted to a permanent position for next year. It was stressful towards the end of last year, when we were waiting to hear if she would have a teaching post come September, as tenured teachers get first dibs on all the jobs, and newcomers have to sit and wait for the Calgary Board of Education to throw them the scraps at the end! Thankfully, her good performance last year helped to secure a job at the same school. It seems to be easier to secure permanent work in Alberta than other provinces, where they have too many qualified teachers for the number of teaching posts.
My wife had the advantage of having qualifies at the University of Calgary. I don't think that it would be so easy for a British qualified teacher to walk into such a plum job. Indeed, a friend who recently returned to England was on a temporary contract for the whole six years she was teaching in Calgary. She probably could have become permanent at a different school, but liked the school and the permanent posts there were always taken by tenured teachers.
One thing which is a pain with teaching in Calgary is that HR is outsourced to Telus. Why a telephone company runs HR is anyone's guess, but they're absolutely hopeless. At one point they were taking money out of our bank account, instead of paying it in! They also managed to lose all of the paperwork for new teachers at my wife's school last year, so they had to go and get police checks etc redone. They seemed unconcerned that so many teachers were illegally in classrooms without any criminal record check!
A final point - my wife's teaching experience in England counted towards her experience for pay purposes when she moved here. It was another bureaucratic process, as the the Head Teachers of the two schools each had to sign documents to confirm her teaching experience, within a very short time frame. The schools were then required to fax them back to Telus directly - teachers are expressly forbidden from receiving the documents and passing them on. Telus has no process for tracking the receipt of the forms, and managed to lose one of them twice.
Assessment of teachers is performed by the school, rather than external assessors. Last year, one of the parents in her class made complaints about the school's Head and Deputy Head, so the board had to get involved, but there wasn't the same presumption of guilt that seems to apply in such cases in England. After a hearing, the board sided with the school.
She spent her first year on a temporary contract and is now on a probationary contract, so she has to go through the usual assessments and administrative hoops to get that converted to a permanent position for next year. It was stressful towards the end of last year, when we were waiting to hear if she would have a teaching post come September, as tenured teachers get first dibs on all the jobs, and newcomers have to sit and wait for the Calgary Board of Education to throw them the scraps at the end! Thankfully, her good performance last year helped to secure a job at the same school. It seems to be easier to secure permanent work in Alberta than other provinces, where they have too many qualified teachers for the number of teaching posts.
My wife had the advantage of having qualifies at the University of Calgary. I don't think that it would be so easy for a British qualified teacher to walk into such a plum job. Indeed, a friend who recently returned to England was on a temporary contract for the whole six years she was teaching in Calgary. She probably could have become permanent at a different school, but liked the school and the permanent posts there were always taken by tenured teachers.
One thing which is a pain with teaching in Calgary is that HR is outsourced to Telus. Why a telephone company runs HR is anyone's guess, but they're absolutely hopeless. At one point they were taking money out of our bank account, instead of paying it in! They also managed to lose all of the paperwork for new teachers at my wife's school last year, so they had to go and get police checks etc redone. They seemed unconcerned that so many teachers were illegally in classrooms without any criminal record check!
A final point - my wife's teaching experience in England counted towards her experience for pay purposes when she moved here. It was another bureaucratic process, as the the Head Teachers of the two schools each had to sign documents to confirm her teaching experience, within a very short time frame. The schools were then required to fax them back to Telus directly - teachers are expressly forbidden from receiving the documents and passing them on. Telus has no process for tracking the receipt of the forms, and managed to lose one of them twice.
Jan 7th 2010, 9:10 am
#33
Forum Regular
Joined: Jun 2009
Location: Blackpool
Posts: 220
Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
Hi Patsy
I teach elementary in Ontario. I find it to be less stressful teaching in Canada. You get plenty of prep time, decent pay and much less paperwork. There is not the same amount of accountability here than there is in the UK which is great if you're a hard working teacher. Unfortunately bad teachers easily slip through the net as the unions are strong and make it difficult to get rid of them. Seniority rules rather than ability or qualifications.
I find I do the same amount of work and planning as I did in the UK but it's because I choose to rather than have to so it is more meaningful than prescribed. Also, I have done much more PD here as I work for a large school board that provides plenty of opportunities for PD - much more so than in the UK. Again, alot of that is voluntary.
Respect from students, parent support and job satisfaction depend on individual circumstances and individual teachers but the external government pressures are much less in my opinion.
Chris
I teach elementary in Ontario. I find it to be less stressful teaching in Canada. You get plenty of prep time, decent pay and much less paperwork. There is not the same amount of accountability here than there is in the UK which is great if you're a hard working teacher. Unfortunately bad teachers easily slip through the net as the unions are strong and make it difficult to get rid of them. Seniority rules rather than ability or qualifications.
I find I do the same amount of work and planning as I did in the UK but it's because I choose to rather than have to so it is more meaningful than prescribed. Also, I have done much more PD here as I work for a large school board that provides plenty of opportunities for PD - much more so than in the UK. Again, alot of that is voluntary.
Respect from students, parent support and job satisfaction depend on individual circumstances and individual teachers but the external government pressures are much less in my opinion.
Chris
I enjoyed reading your post. How easy was it to get your PGCE converted? I have received conflicting information. Some say that once you get certification, you can teach immediately, however, I have also been told that you have to re-train. As you are in Ontario (and that's where I'm headed), I thought you would have more info.
I am currently studying for the PGCE in the UK, which is bad enough but the thought of having to go through this again in Canada is unbearable!! By the time we move, I should have also passed my NQT year but I won't have any teaching experience on top of that. Will this be enough to get certification?
Sorry for all the questions but any info you could give me would be appreciated.
Becky
Jan 7th 2010, 11:35 pm
#34
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Joined: Sep 2002
Location: London Ontario
Posts: 453
Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
Hi Tom Masters,
I enjoyed reading your post. How easy was it to get your PGCE converted? I have received conflicting information. Some say that once you get certification, you can teach immediately, however, I have also been told that you have to re-train. As you are in Ontario (and that's where I'm headed), I thought you would have more info.
I am currently studying for the PGCE in the UK, which is bad enough but the thought of having to go through this again in Canada is unbearable!! By the time we move, I should have also passed my NQT year but I won't have any teaching experience on top of that. Will this be enough to get certification?
Sorry for all the questions but any info you could give me would be appreciated.
Becky
I enjoyed reading your post. How easy was it to get your PGCE converted? I have received conflicting information. Some say that once you get certification, you can teach immediately, however, I have also been told that you have to re-train. As you are in Ontario (and that's where I'm headed), I thought you would have more info.
I am currently studying for the PGCE in the UK, which is bad enough but the thought of having to go through this again in Canada is unbearable!! By the time we move, I should have also passed my NQT year but I won't have any teaching experience on top of that. Will this be enough to get certification?
Sorry for all the questions but any info you could give me would be appreciated.
Becky
I did the B.Ed and it was no problem at all - just a lengthy wait due to beaurocracy. The OCT are very slow at processing! I know of others who did the PGCE and had no problems getting their qualifications recognized. You don't need experience to get certification, just the qualifications. You should be fine.
Getting a job is another matter! Virtually everyone has to do supply work first before they stand a chance at getting any kind of permanent position. It also depends on which school board you work for - some are more difficult to get into than others. Although it is hard, it is not impossible. Being hard working, determined and patient will get you there in the end - it is worth it. The key is having enough funds or a source of income to keep you going until you get there! Good luck
Chris
Jan 8th 2010, 12:02 am
#35
Born again atheist
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Europe (to be specified).
Posts: 30,259
Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
Hi Patsy:
I'm a HS Eng. teacher in QC. It's a great job - provided you have some self sourced motivation. Job satisfaction for me is important - in my case I see it being derived from (a) personal goals, (b) positive student interaction/student goals, (c) subject interest and importantly, (d) ignoring the school administration/school board for 10 months of the year. In my experience the admin/board are self-serving and superfluous entities that complicate matters too often - I can make 100+ decisions before they act in any situation.
Like the UK, student respect is earned and dearly bought; you should know this by now? That said, school location/organisation does have an impact, esp. concerning rural (rabbit hunters) and urban (chrystal meth dealers/users) schools. I once taught in a poorly organised and managed semi-rural/semi-suburban school where 35% of the kids were complete ****ing assholes; they barely respected each other, let alone their parents, support staff and the teaching staff.
I have a low stress classroom because I purposefully seek to avoid conflicts by denying any asshole kid entrance. Unless they are willing to behave under my terms they aren't welcome. You want to sit "quietly" and mentally jerk off in the corner? Fine, sit there, but don't ask me any favours kid. Stress avoidance is paramount here in Can. as the UK.
In my experience school inspections are practically non-existent, with the exceptions of private or IB schools (no OFSTED).
Of course I fear for the failing student, but I try my hardest to help them succeed; if they don't succeed, well, let the chips fall where they may. The way the current (QC) education system is being moulded makes it much more difficult for kids to "fail' in the classical sense. This situation is also evident in BC and Ont., according to teacher/admin friends in said provinces. We know this is creating problems for post secondary education institutions (e.g. low literacy, low numeracy, delusions of grandeur, sense of entitlement, etc.). I have no idea how such social trends develop, but so be it. The next generation shall be an interesting one (twit-err???
).
I find parental support a mixed bag, and it is so easy to pass the buck (back and forth) here, but in this ****ed up world I do my job to the best of my ability. Many of my parent experiences are positive, and I see many parents actively involved in their children's lives/education. I try very hard to problem solve with concerned parents. I honestly do fear for the poor little waifs who lack parental wisdom or presence; ultimately, it's not my problem, and I can't be expected to fill in for crappy parents. It breaks my heart to see troublesome/needy/wanting kids. Yet, I see each kid (x135) in class for 50 minutes per day, and that amounts to squat as far as parenting is concerned.
At the end of the day, I drive home in an all expenses paid company car, with a huge smile on my face, oftentimes laughing, with a big fat paycheque (deposited into my offshore account), barely work on-and-off for less than 200 days (at the expense of the tax-payers, Ha! Ha! Haaaa!; some of them on this forum too!), take free trips (paid by students and taxpayers), boss pimply teenagers around, flick swotty kids in the back of the head in the hallway, read trashy novels/beaver mags/play COD 4 between lessons, hang out with a 75% majority female staff and suffer the envy of all non-teachers. It's just bliss.
P.S. I apologise, wotsoever, to the forum NKVD for my poor spelling, sentence syntax, punctuation faults, lack of professionalism, lack of knowledge, cold-heartedness, un-PCness, boils, spots, bullshit and inadequate etiquette. Not.
P.P.S. BTW, teachers in Quebec are not paid for the summer vacation (i.e. June 25-August 25), nor are they recognised as "professionals" by the Gouvernement du Quebec.
I'm a HS Eng. teacher in QC. It's a great job - provided you have some self sourced motivation. Job satisfaction for me is important - in my case I see it being derived from (a) personal goals, (b) positive student interaction/student goals, (c) subject interest and importantly, (d) ignoring the school administration/school board for 10 months of the year. In my experience the admin/board are self-serving and superfluous entities that complicate matters too often - I can make 100+ decisions before they act in any situation.
Like the UK, student respect is earned and dearly bought; you should know this by now? That said, school location/organisation does have an impact, esp. concerning rural (rabbit hunters) and urban (chrystal meth dealers/users) schools. I once taught in a poorly organised and managed semi-rural/semi-suburban school where 35% of the kids were complete ****ing assholes; they barely respected each other, let alone their parents, support staff and the teaching staff.
I have a low stress classroom because I purposefully seek to avoid conflicts by denying any asshole kid entrance. Unless they are willing to behave under my terms they aren't welcome. You want to sit "quietly" and mentally jerk off in the corner? Fine, sit there, but don't ask me any favours kid. Stress avoidance is paramount here in Can. as the UK.
In my experience school inspections are practically non-existent, with the exceptions of private or IB schools (no OFSTED).
Of course I fear for the failing student, but I try my hardest to help them succeed; if they don't succeed, well, let the chips fall where they may. The way the current (QC) education system is being moulded makes it much more difficult for kids to "fail' in the classical sense. This situation is also evident in BC and Ont., according to teacher/admin friends in said provinces. We know this is creating problems for post secondary education institutions (e.g. low literacy, low numeracy, delusions of grandeur, sense of entitlement, etc.). I have no idea how such social trends develop, but so be it. The next generation shall be an interesting one (twit-err???
).I find parental support a mixed bag, and it is so easy to pass the buck (back and forth) here, but in this ****ed up world I do my job to the best of my ability. Many of my parent experiences are positive, and I see many parents actively involved in their children's lives/education. I try very hard to problem solve with concerned parents. I honestly do fear for the poor little waifs who lack parental wisdom or presence; ultimately, it's not my problem, and I can't be expected to fill in for crappy parents. It breaks my heart to see troublesome/needy/wanting kids. Yet, I see each kid (x135) in class for 50 minutes per day, and that amounts to squat as far as parenting is concerned.
At the end of the day, I drive home in an all expenses paid company car, with a huge smile on my face, oftentimes laughing, with a big fat paycheque (deposited into my offshore account), barely work on-and-off for less than 200 days (at the expense of the tax-payers, Ha! Ha! Haaaa!; some of them on this forum too!), take free trips (paid by students and taxpayers), boss pimply teenagers around, flick swotty kids in the back of the head in the hallway, read trashy novels/beaver mags/play COD 4 between lessons, hang out with a 75% majority female staff and suffer the envy of all non-teachers
. It's just bliss.P.S. I apologise, wotsoever, to the forum NKVD for my poor spelling, sentence syntax, punctuation faults, lack of professionalism, lack of knowledge, cold-heartedness, un-PCness, boils, spots, bullshit and inadequate etiquette. Not.
P.P.S. BTW, teachers in Quebec are not paid for the summer vacation (i.e. June 25-August 25), nor are they recognised as "professionals" by the Gouvernement du Quebec.
Best post EVAH!!
And my god you're right about the end products entering post-secondary.
Jan 8th 2010, 11:16 am
#36
Forum Regular
Joined: Jun 2009
Location: Blackpool
Posts: 220
Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
Hi Becky
I did the B.Ed and it was no problem at all - just a lengthy wait due to beaurocracy. The OCT are very slow at processing! I know of others who did the PGCE and had no problems getting their qualifications recognized. You don't need experience to get certification, just the qualifications. You should be fine.
Getting a job is another matter! Virtually everyone has to do supply work first before they stand a chance at getting any kind of permanent position. It also depends on which school board you work for - some are more difficult to get into than others. Although it is hard, it is not impossible. Being hard working, determined and patient will get you there in the end - it is worth it. The key is having enough funds or a source of income to keep you going until you get there! Good luck
Chris
I did the B.Ed and it was no problem at all - just a lengthy wait due to beaurocracy. The OCT are very slow at processing! I know of others who did the PGCE and had no problems getting their qualifications recognized. You don't need experience to get certification, just the qualifications. You should be fine.
Getting a job is another matter! Virtually everyone has to do supply work first before they stand a chance at getting any kind of permanent position. It also depends on which school board you work for - some are more difficult to get into than others. Although it is hard, it is not impossible. Being hard working, determined and patient will get you there in the end - it is worth it. The key is having enough funds or a source of income to keep you going until you get there! Good luck
Chris
Many thanks for your response. I feel so much better now. I hated the though of putting myself through hell to have to do it again in Canada. I am training to be a French teacher so when I get to Canada if there are no supply posts available I will do some voluntry work in a local school and see if that leads to anything.
We're not making the move until the OH has a job so it won't be a problem if I don't work immediately.
How long have you been in London, Ontario? I spent a summer there in 1986 and even went to school for a week. I loved it!!
Becky
Jan 8th 2010, 12:37 pm
#37
.
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 20,185
Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
Hi Chris
Many thanks for your response. I feel so much better now. I hated the though of putting myself through hell to have to do it again in Canada. I am training to be a French teacher so when I get to Canada if there are no supply posts available I will do some voluntry work in a local school and see if that leads to anything.
We're not making the move until the OH has a job so it won't be a problem if I don't work immediately.
How long have you been in London, Ontario? I spent a summer there in 1986 and even went to school for a week. I loved it!!
Becky
Many thanks for your response. I feel so much better now. I hated the though of putting myself through hell to have to do it again in Canada. I am training to be a French teacher so when I get to Canada if there are no supply posts available I will do some voluntry work in a local school and see if that leads to anything.
We're not making the move until the OH has a job so it won't be a problem if I don't work immediately.
How long have you been in London, Ontario? I spent a summer there in 1986 and even went to school for a week. I loved it!!
Becky
And its true, the more average candidates most often have to start out as substitutes, but if you're young and have something about you, you'll should be able get a full-time job without using the subbing route.
Jan 8th 2010, 12:49 pm
#38
Forum Regular
Joined: Jun 2009
Location: Blackpool
Posts: 220
Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
If you going to live in Canada and want to teach there, why on earth would you enter teacher training in the UK? Just do it here, its not very good but if you want a job, your chances will be significantly higher if you train here.
And its true, the more average candidates most often have to start out as substitutes, but if you're young and have something about you, you'll should be able get a full-time job without using the subbing route.
And its true, the more average candidates most often have to start out as substitutes, but if you're young and have something about you, you'll should be able get a full-time job without using the subbing route.
I don't mind proving myself via the supply teacher route as it counts towards Canadian experience.
Jan 8th 2010, 3:59 pm
#39
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 156
Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
Hi Chris
Many thanks for your response. I feel so much better now. I hated the though of putting myself through hell to have to do it again in Canada. I am training to be a French teacher so when I get to Canada if there are no supply posts available I will do some voluntry work in a local school and see if that leads to anything.
We're not making the move until the OH has a job so it won't be a problem if I don't work immediately.
How long have you been in London, Ontario? I spent a summer there in 1986 and even went to school for a week. I loved it!!
Becky
Many thanks for your response. I feel so much better now. I hated the though of putting myself through hell to have to do it again in Canada. I am training to be a French teacher so when I get to Canada if there are no supply posts available I will do some voluntry work in a local school and see if that leads to anything.
We're not making the move until the OH has a job so it won't be a problem if I don't work immediately.
How long have you been in London, Ontario? I spent a summer there in 1986 and even went to school for a week. I loved it!!
Becky
If you are training to be a French teacher you shouldn't have any trouble finding a full time job. Although it really depends upon where you are seeking employment. It really depends upon what you teach! They do tend to favour teachers that have been trained in Canada as they know the curriculum and the culture better. Given this, I would encourage you to train in Canada if possible.
Jan 8th 2010, 4:18 pm
#40
.
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 20,185
Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
Hi there,
If you are training to be a French teacher you shouldn't have any trouble finding a full time job. Although it really depends upon where you are seeking employment. It really depends upon what you teach! They do tend to favour teachers that have been trained in Canada as they know the curriculum and the culture better. Given this, I would encourage you to train in Canada if possible.
If you are training to be a French teacher you shouldn't have any trouble finding a full time job. Although it really depends upon where you are seeking employment. It really depends upon what you teach! They do tend to favour teachers that have been trained in Canada as they know the curriculum and the culture better. Given this, I would encourage you to train in Canada if possible.
Jan 8th 2010, 5:13 pm
#42
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Calgary
Posts: 308
Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
One thing which is a pain with teaching in Calgary is that HR is outsourced to Telus. Why a telephone company runs HR is anyone's guess, but they're absolutely hopeless. At one point they were taking money out of our bank account, instead of paying it in! They also managed to lose all of the paperwork for new teachers at my wife's school last year, so they had to go and get police checks etc redone. They seemed unconcerned that so many teachers were illegally in classrooms without any criminal record check
.
.
They messed up big time on the lab wages for the Calgary Health Trust too - caused no end of headaches & financial troubles!
I'm not a teacher but have to say that those my kids have come across so far have been good.
Wish my teen would work harder but it's never his fault, of course! I ddn't think of myself as a crappy parent but somehow he just doesn't seem to get it!! Oh well, 2 more to follow so will have to start beating them, as positive parenting has failed miserably with no1!!
Jan 8th 2010, 5:19 pm
#43
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Joined: Dec 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 2,092
Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
But I agree: why study in the UK if you are going to teach here?
Jan 8th 2010, 5:32 pm
#44
.
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 20,185
Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
It depends where you move to, and whether or not that board has suffered any cutbacks. Other factors include demographics (of both teachers and students), and whether the subject you teach is in demand (ie., subject teachers in short supply).
But I agree: why study in the UK if you are going to teach here?
But I agree: why study in the UK if you are going to teach here?
Jan 8th 2010, 5:35 pm
#45
Forum Regular
Joined: Jun 2009
Location: Blackpool
Posts: 220
Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
It depends where you move to, and whether or not that board has suffered any cutbacks. Other factors include demographics (of both teachers and students), and whether the subject you teach is in demand (ie., subject teachers in short supply).
But I agree: why study in the UK if you are going to teach here?
But I agree: why study in the UK if you are going to teach here?
As previously stated, I decided to study here just in case the move doesn't go ahead as otherwise I was just sitting around doing nothing except worry about the application.