Suggestions?
 

Hi
I have a number of queries regarding my predicament and I`m unsure exactly what road the follow. I`ll start from the beginning. My ambition is to move to Canada (NB to be precise) and to live and work peacefully with my Canadian girlfriend. Kelley came here to the UK three months ago and is currently living with me. She`s in the UK under extended visitor rights. I`m sponsoring her as she does not have permission to work here. She has been allowed to remain here until January of next year, after that we`ll decide what to do next. Our ambition is to move to Canada as soon as possible, we only wish to live together and I look forward to a new start in Canada. I know Kelley misses Canada, especially her Tim Hortons!!! Our biggest concern is where on earth do I start on this immigration issue. I have been told I could go to Canada with Kelley anytime as a visitor for 6 months and then apply within. Unfortunately this would not be financially viable for me. I would dearly like to start work as soon as I get there or within a reasonable time period. To be honest it wouldn`t take me long to pack up my things and be gone from here, unfortunately we have to realistic and cannot live in a dream world. Things like this don`t happen overnight even though I wish they could. I am reasonably skilled in work experience, I`ve spent 12 years in a Machining/mechanical engineering enviroment. I wanted to avoid going down the skilled worker route, it seems as though there is a million things that go against me on that one. Is there a simple and easy route for me and Kelley to go down so we can get to New Brunswick and settle down peacefully. Thankyou for your time.
Regards,
Rob.

Re: Suggestions?
 

Easiest Way, Get Married and then ask your GF to sponsor you. :D .


Bud.

Re: Suggestions?
 

Short of that, if you can make it so you can live together, cohabiting as a
proper couple joint bank accounts bills lease etc for at least a year then
you could qualify under the common-law partner category and she could
sponsor you, but all thats gonna require her to stay in the UK for a year or
so more if you want the visa before you go so you can work when you land.
So possibly it might be worth applying for her leave to stay indefinately in
the UK, but of course damn you cant do that as you arent married. hrm.
Well to do that you need to find someway for her to remain legally in the UK
for the length of time needed to become commonlaw partners then apply.
Possibly you could afford for her to fly back to Canada then return to the
UK under the commonwealth working tourist visa. If she is unmarried as she
is and young enough to qualify then she can stay in the UK for upto 2 years
and work as long as the work is to support her travelling.
Otherwise you may be best getting married or saving up and going the inland
route.
IF you don't want to get maried yet then you might have no choice but for
her to go home and you to jsut visit her until you do want to get married.

Drew



"Bud4life" wrote in message
news:444581.1034710697@britishexpats-
.com...
    > Easiest Way, Get Married and then ask your GF to sponsor you. :D .
    > Bud.
    > --
    > Have Fun Go Mad :o) !!
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Re: Suggestions?
 

"The Wizzard" wrote in message news:...
    > Short of that, if you can make it so you can live together, cohabiting as a
    > proper couple joint bank accounts bills lease etc for at least a year then
    > you could qualify under the common-law partner category and she could
    > sponsor you, but all thats gonna require her to stay in the UK for a year or
    > so more if you want the visa before you go so you can work when you land.
    > So possibly it might be worth applying for her leave to stay indefinately in
    > the UK, but of course damn you cant do that as you arent married. hrm.
    > Well to do that you need to find someway for her to remain legally in the UK
    > for the length of time needed to become commonlaw partners then apply.
    > Possibly you could afford for her to fly back to Canada then return to the
    > UK under the commonwealth working tourist visa. If she is unmarried as she
    > is and young enough to qualify then she can stay in the UK for upto 2 years
    > and work as long as the work is to support her travelling.
    > Otherwise you may be best getting married or saving up and going the inland
    > route.
    > IF you don't want to get maried yet then you might have no choice but for
    > her to go home and you to jsut visit her until you do want to get married.
    > Drew
    > "Bud4life" wrote in message
    > news:444581.1034710697@britishexpa-
    > ts.com    ...
    > >
    > > Easiest Way, Get Married and then ask your GF to sponsor you. :D .
    > >
    > >
    > > Bud.
    > >
    > > --
    > > Have Fun Go Mad :o) !!
    > >
    > >
    > > Posted via http://britishexpats.com




Many thanks for the replies. Unfortunately the marriage route is a
dead end for now. She`s married but she has been formally seperated
for over a year now. It`s a mutual agreement between them with no
malice involved.
Some thoughts on the inland route would be appreciated??
Once again many thanks for your time.

Re: Suggestions?
 

hi there rob

just to let you know you are in the right skill as thats what they are wanting over there, but you need to have 75 points to get out there , because your girlfriend is canadian then you may be lucky she maybe able to sponsor you , but the disadvantage she is still married and i dont know if that will go down very well why dont you give the candian embassy a call on 0207 2586600 and see what they can advise you, there is currently a 15 to 24 waiting list for emmigration. also i have 69 points to get out there the only thing i can do is go on a working visa this will get me an extra 5 points and if i get a job offer than will be 10 points so i will be well over. you need money and family out there to get in a little easier good luck any queries please email me
johnparker530@hotmail

john

Re: Suggestions?
 

"The Wizzard" wrote:
    > Well to do that you need to find someway for her to remain legally in the UK
    > for the length of time needed to become commonlaw partners then apply.
    > Possibly you could afford for her to fly back to Canada then return to the
    > UK under the commonwealth working tourist visa.

There's another slightly riskier way. She leaves and goes to France
and flies back into Dublin. They will stamp her with a three month
visa then she can cross into the UK for another three months. At the
end of the three months she leaves for France again, only this time
she goes back to the UK.
Both times she comes for a "visit" and changes her mind.
That will give her the year.
The other option is as wizzard said, to get married.

The inland route (marriage) in Canada has a rough timeline of about a
year to getting landing papers but say four to six months to being
able to work.

If you really want to be with this girl, my suggestion is to marry
her.

Re: Suggestions?
 

Thanks for the advice guys, you`ve all certainly given me lots to think about. I think the marriage one is out of the question at the moment.
Is staying in Canada for 6 months (visitor) and being sponsored by my GF a viable option?
She`s been here in the UK since July and has approval to stay here until January next year. Would it be sensible to return with her to Canada when her permission to stay here expires. This inland application is a little misleading!! Do I need to marry her to make such an application.
Oh man, this could put me in a straight jacket:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Re: Suggestions?
 

Have you looked into conjugal sponsorship? I'm sponsoring my boyfriend to come to Canada as my conjugal partner. You have to prove that you have had a relationship for at least 12 months (photos, letters, statement from relatives etc). This way you don't have to get married and you don't need to have joint accounts or mortgages etc. This will take about a year though. I have had to come back to Canada in the meantimne while my boyfriend is still in the UK. It's tough, but will be worth it in the long run. I suppose you would probably have to wait until your GF is divorced though, as I can't imagine she would be able to sponsor you while she is still married.

Best of luck

Re: Suggestions?
 

Hi,
I am Indian citizen applied Canada Immgration (Independent category & non-resident of HK) from Hong Kong in Oct 1999. Apart from my file no. (in Dec 1999) and initial assessment in Jan 2000 ( saying that I have to attend interview) I did not receive any notification whatsoever.
I would like to know how much time it would take for my processing?

I am working in USA from last 2 years in IT( I updated my file in July 2001 with marriage status and USA experience and in July 2002 with my new employer and experience), is there any chance for interview waiver?

Thanks
Rahul

Re: Suggestions?
 

Thats a good option but like you say you cant both be in Canada as conjugal
partner can only be used is your partner is outside Canada.
Both conjugal and commonlaw partner can be used while she is still married
as long as you can demonstrate she is officialy seperated like you said.



"ngoodlad" wrote in message
news:445721.1034792889@britishexpats-
.com...
    > Have you looked into conjugal sponsorship? I'm sponsoring my boyfriend
    > to come to Canada as my conjugal partner. You have to prove that you
    > have had a relationship for at least 12 months (photos, letters,
    > statement from relatives etc). This way you don't have to get married
    > and you don't need to have joint accounts or mortgages etc. This will
    > take about a year though. I have had to come back to Canada in the
    > meantimne while my boyfriend is still in the UK. It's tough, but will
    > be worth it in the long run. I suppose you would probably have to wait
    > until your GF is divorced though, as I can't imagine she would be able
    > to sponsor you while she is still married.
    > Best of luck
    > Originally posted by BritBob:
    > > Thanks for the advice guys, you`ve all certainly given me lots to
    > > think about. I think the marriage one is out of the question at
    > > the moment.
    > > Is staying in Canada for 6 months (visitor) and being sponsored by my
    > > GF a viable option?
    > > She`s been here in the UK since July and has approval to stay here
    > > until January next year. Would it be sensible to return with her to
    > > Canada when her permission to stay here expires. This inland
    > > application is a little misleading!! Do I need to marry her to make
    > > such an application.
    > Oh man, this could put me in a straight jacket:confused: :confused:
    > :confused: :confused:
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Re: Suggestions?
 

That sounds great. So basically I`m better applying as a conjugal parter while we`re both in the UK. Her being married married is a definate okay?
Well, I appreciate eveything you guys have done, many thanks. Now for the long road ahead:confused: :confused:

Re: Suggestions?
 

In article ,
BritBob wrote:

    > I know Kelley misses Canada, especially her Tim Hortons!!!

Mmm, Tim Horton's ‹- I could go for some Timbits right about now ...

Re: Suggestions?
 

[QUOTE

Mmm, Tim Horton's ‹- I could go for some Timbits right about now ...
[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

Mmmmmm, I was never too keen on Timbits and the like but I was partial to a large double double:) .
Back on topic, has anyone else ever been in a similar situation to mine and could maybe share their valuable experience.
It appears my best option is the Conjugal partner route so whatever other advice on this one people can give would be much appreciated. Once again, many thanks for your help guys:)

Re: Suggestions?
 

I'm doing the conjugal sponsorship thing just now. We are in the process of putting together evidence, police certificates etc, so haven't actually sent off the forms yet, so can't tell you much about how long it is taking. Is Kelly a Canadian citizen? If so she can sponsor you while she is in the UK, however she would have to prove that you both intend to live in Canada. So I think you need to provide evidence of searching for jobs/housing and the like. I'm still only a permanent resident which is why I have returned to Canada and my boyfriend and I alternate visits to each other.

Mmmmmm, I was never too keen on Timbits and the like but I was partial to a large double double:) .
Back on topic, has anyone else ever been in a similar situation to mine and could maybe share their valuable experience.
It appears my best option is the Conjugal partner route so whatever other advice on this one people can give would be much appreciated. Once again, many thanks for your help guys:) [/SIZE][/QUOTE]

Re: Suggestions?
 

[/QUOTE]

Yes, she is a Canadian citizen born and bred!! It sounds the best option for me by far. I`m going to see what other options I have (if any) before I go full steam ahead.
Wow, that must be tough for you taking turns visiting each other. This immigration process is certainly a tough affair:confused:
You say you are a permanent resident? Where are you originally from?

Re: Suggestions?
 

hmmm i've never heard of the conjugal partner sponsorship route. so the partner must be living in another country? i'm in canada and he's in england, so maybe this is something i too have to look into. thank you to all for the info in this thread!

Re: Suggestions?
 

I grew up in the Shetland Isles, although I've lived in Aberdeen, Scotland for a while. My family immigrated to Montreal in 1994, and I met my boyfriend when I returned to Aberdeen in 1997. (I went to study witha student visa and got PR while in Canada) We've been together since then and now we've both decided that we want to live in Canada, it seems so long to have to wait another year or so for the papers to be processed, assuming that are application is accepted!

Yes, she is a Canadian citizen born and bred!! It sounds the best option for me by far. I`m going to see what other options I have (if any) before I go full steam ahead.
Wow, that must be tough for you taking turns visiting each other. This immigration process is certainly a tough affair:confused:
You say you are a permanent resident? Where are you originally from? [/SIZE][/QUOTE]

Re: Suggestions?
 

Dougall, you can both be overseas as long as the person sponsoring is a Canadian citizen and can prove that you will be returning to live in Canada.

Re: Suggestions?
 

Hi ngoodlad
Thank you for your response to my questions by the way...

I'm a Canadian citizen, so I'm staying put. It's my boyfriend who wants to come here and live here and be with me. He will be coming for his second visit in Nov. and really we both want him to stay here and I'm not sure where to start as far as applications go.

Re: Suggestions?
 

Yes, Same here. Thankyou for all the replies. I`m going to start looking into this Conjugal Parter route. I`ve never even heard of the word so I better hunt the dictionary down!!!
Best of luck to all the people on here who are waiting or beginning the long road with CIC.

Re: Suggestions?
 

Forget the dictionary - what you need is to see if your relationship meets the
criteria of *conjugal relationship* as described in Immigration Manual. See
below:

--------------------------------------------------------------
5.22 Characteristics of conjugal relationships that apply to married,
common-law and conjugal partner relationships

The term "conjugal" was originally used to describe marriage. Over the years,
the term has expanded to describe "marriage-like" relationships, i.e.,
common-law opposite-sex couples. More recently the term was expanded further to
describe common-law same-sex couples in the M. v. H. Supreme Court decision in
1999.

The word "conjugal" does not mean "sexual relations" alone. It signifies that
there is a significant degree of attachment between two partners. The word
"conjugal" comes from two Latin words, one meaning "join" and the other meaning
"yoke", thus, literally, the term means "joined together" or "yoked together".

The following characteristics should be present in all conjugal relationships,
married and unmarried:

- mutual commitment to a shared life;

- exclusive - cannot be in more than one conjugal relationship at a time;

- intimate - commitment to sexual exclusivity;

- interdependent - physically, emotionally, financially, socially;

- permanent - long-term, genuine and continuing relationship;

- present themselves as a couple (.here.s my other half.);

- regarded by others as partners;

- caring for children together (if there are children).


5.23 Assessment of conjugal relationships

The following are key elements that officers may use to establish whether a
couple is in a conjugal relationship:

a) Mutual commitment to a shared life to the exclusion of all other conjugal
relationships:

A conjugal relationship is characterized by mutual commitment, exclusivity, and
interdependence and therefore cannot exist among more than two people
simultaneously. For example, a person cannot have a conjugal relationship with
a legally married spouse and another person at the same time. Nor can a person
have a conjugal relationship with two unmarried partners at the same time.
These would be polygamous-like relationships and cannot be considered conjugal.
Excluded
relationships, including polygamy, are addressed in R117(9). This does not,
however, require that an individual in an unmarried conjugal relationship be
divorced from a legally married spouse. See: What happens if the principal
applicant is married to another person, [section 5.36].


b) Interdependent - physically, emotionally, financially, socially:

The two individuals in a conjugal relationship are interdependent - they have
combined their affairs both economically and socially. The assessment of
whether two individuals are in a conjugal relationship should focus on evidence
of interdependency.

The following list is a set of elements which, when taken together or in
various combinations, may constitute evidence of interdependency. Keep in mind
that these elements may be present in varying degrees and not all are necessary
for a relationship to be bona fide.

** Financial aspects of the relationship:

- Joint loan agreements for real estate, cars, major household appliances;

- Joint ownership of property, other durable goods;

- Operation of joint bank accounts, joint credit cards - evidence that any such
accounts have existed for a reasonable period of time;

- The extent of any pooling of financial resources, especially in relation to
major financial commitments; Whether one party owes any legal obligation in
respect of the other.


** Social aspects of the relationship

- Evidence that the relationship has been declared to government bodies and
commercial or public institutions or
authorities and acceptance of such declarations by any such bodies;

- Joint membership in organisations or groups, joint participation in sporting,
cultural, social or other activities;

- Joint travel;

- Shared values with respect to how a household should be managed;

- Shared responsibility for children; shared values with respect to
child-rearing; willingness to care for the partner's
children;

- Testimonials by parents, family members, relatives or friends and other
interested parties about the nature of the
relationship and whether the couple present themselves to others as partners.
Statements in the form of statutory
declarations are preferred.


** Physical and emotional aspects of the relationship -the degree of commitment
as evidenced by:

- Knowledge of each other's personal circumstances, background and family
situation;

- Shared values and interests;

- Expressed intention that the relationship will be long term;

- The extent to which the parties have combined their affairs, for example, are
they beneficiaries of one another's
insurance plans, pensions, etc.?

- Support for each other when ill and on special occasions - letters, cards,
gifts, time off work to care for other;

- The terms of the parties' wills - wills made out in each other's favour
provide some evidence of an intention that
the relationship is long term and permanent;

- Time spent together;

- Time spent with one another's families.


*** Examples of supporting documents:

- Family memberships, medical plans, documentation from institutions that
provides recognition as a couple;

- Marriage certificate, wedding invitations, commitment ceremony (certificate,
invitations), domestic partnership certificate;

- joint ownership of possessions, joint utility bills, lease/rental agreement,
joint mortgage/loan, property title, joint bank statements;

- documents showing travel together, long distance phone bills;

- insurance policies (documents naming the partner as a beneficiary), wills,
powers of attorney;

- significant photographs;

- statements of support from families, bank manager, employers, financial
professionals, religious leaders, community leaders, professors, teachers or
medical professionals.

The above elements may be present in varying degrees and not all are necessary
for a relationship to be considered conjugal. Whether an element is present may
depend on the culture or preferences of the couple. For example, in some
cultures, women have a limited role in the management of the family finances;
thus there may not be joint ownership of property or joint bank accounts. Some
couples may choose to keep aspects of their financial affairs separate and yet
are
clearly in a conjugal relationship and have merged their affairs in other
respects.

Officers should consider each relationship individually and take into account
any other relevant information provided by the applicant (or information
otherwise available to the officer), in order to assess whether a conjugal
relationship exists.

Officers should also take into account to what extent the laws and/or
traditions of the applicant's home country may discourage the parties from
openly admitting the existence of the relationship.

--------------------------------

5.32 Recognition of a common-law relationship

A common-law relationship is fact-based and exists from the day in which two
individuals demonstrate that the relationship exists on the basis of the facts.
The onus is on the applicants to prove that they are in a conjugal relationship
and that they are cohabiting.

A common-law relationship is legally a de facto relationship, meaning that it
must be established in each individual case, on the facts. This is in contrast
to a marriage, which is legally a de jure relationship, meaning that it has
been established in law.

---------------------------

6.33 What is cohabitation?

Cohabitation means living together in one home. Common-law partners must have
ordinarily cohabited for a period of at least one year. They should have lived
together in one home for most of at least one year, although from time to time,
one or the other may have left the home for work or business travel, family
obligations, and so on.

The following is a list of indicators about the nature of the household which
constitute evidence that a couple in a conjugal relationship is cohabiting:

- Joint bank accounts and/or credit cards;

- Joint ownership of residential property;

- Joint residential leases;

- Joint rental receipts;

- Joint utilities accounts (electricity, gas, telephone);

- Joint management of household expenditures;

- Evidence of joint purchases, especially for household items;

- Correspondence addressed to either or both parties at the same address;

- Important documents of both parties show the same address, e.g.,
identification documents, driver's licenses, insurance polices, etc.;

- Shared responsibility for household management, household chores, etc.;

- Evidence of children of one or both partners residing with the couple;

- Telephone calls.

These elements may be present in varying degrees and not all are necessary to
prove cohabitation. This list is not exhaustive; other evidence may be taken
into consideration.


5.34 How can someone in Canada sponsor a common-law partner from outside Canada
when the definition says "is cohabiting"?

According to case law, the definition of common-law partner should be read as
"an individual who is (ordinarily) cohabiting". After the one year period of
cohabitation has been established, the partners may live apart for periods of
time without legally breaking the cohabitation. For example, a couple may have
been separated due to armed conflict, illness of a family member, or for
employment or education-related reasons, and therefore do not cohabit at
present. Despite the break in cohabitation, a common-law relationship exists if
the couple has cohabited in a conjugal relationship in the past for at least
one year and intend to do so again as soon as possible. There should be
evidence demonstrating that both parties are continuing the relationship, such
as visits, correspondence, and telephone calls.

This situation is similar to a marriage where the parties are temporarily
separated or not cohabiting for a variety of reasons, but still considers
themselves to be married and living in a conjugal relationship with their
spouse with the intention of living together as soon as possible.

For common-law relationships (and marriage), the longer the period of
separation without any cohabitation, the more difficult it is to establish that
the common-law relationship (or marriage) still exists.

-------------------------------

6.42 What is a conjugal partner?

The conjugal partner category applies only to the family class and only to a
foreign national sponsored by a Canadian citizen or permanent resident living
in Canada. This category does not apply to the Spouse and Common-law Partner in
Canada class.

This category allows a Canadian citizen or permanent resident to sponsor a
foreign partner with whom they are in a bona fide conjugal relationship but
with whom they have been unable to cohabit, usually because they were unable to
obtain visas to live together in one another's countries.

Because the partner has not been able to live with the Canadian resident
continuously for at least one year, the partner does not meet the definition of
"common-law partner".

Conjugal partners are exempt from meeting the LICO requirements and the
excessive medical demand criteria. There are no conditions attached to their
permanent resident visas. As members of the family class, they have appeal
rights.

A conjugal partner is not a common-law partner under Canadian law because the
one-year cohabitation requirement has not been met. Applicants should be
counselled that they and their partner will not be considered to be in a
common-law partnership for purposes of other federal benefits and obligations
until they have lived together in Canada for one year. The applicant's
Confirmation of Permanent Residence form will not indicate their marital status
as "conjugal partner"
since this is not a legal status in Canada.

Note: A Canadian citizen residing abroad may sponsor a conjugal partner
provided that the sponsor and applicant will reside together in Canada when the
applicant becomes a permanent resident [R130(2)]


5.43 Assessment of conjugal partner relationships

Officers must determine whether the parties are in a conjugal relationship (see
Assessment of conjugal relationships, [section 5.23]). Conjugal partners are
similar to common-law partners; however, they have not yet merged their
households to the same extent, as they have not been able to cohabit
continuously and permanently. Despite this, they must have established a
long-standing, interdependent attachment and have combined their affairs to the
extent possible.

Without continuous cohabitation and the combining of affairs that takes place
when a couple in a conjugal relationship cohabit, conjugal partner
relationships are more challenging to assess than common-law relationships. The
following list provides some additional elements to consider when assessing
such relationships:

** Length of time relationship has existed

Because a conjugal relationship means interdependency, mutual commitment and
exclusivity, such a relationship is not established when two people meet or
when they start to date or even necessarily when they begin a sexual
relationship. Establishing a conjugal relationship takes a period of time. Visa
officers must assess the facts of each case individually; however, in general
terms, most conjugal partners will likely have known one another for more than
one year.

** Amount of time spent together

The amount of time the partners have spent together. Evidence of time spent
together may take the form of airline tickets, receipts from vacations, visas,
passports, leave forms from work etc.

** Reasons why couple has been unable to cohabit continuously for one year

The applicant should be able to explain why the couple has not been able to
cohabit continuously for one year. For example, there may be legal impediments
to a common country of residence. The partners might not have been able to
obtain long stay visas or immigrant visas for one another's countries. If they
could have lived together, but chose not to, then it is reasonable for the visa
officer to question the nature of the relationship and its bona fides.

** Evidence showing how the long-distance relationship has been maintained

The volume and style of the communication between partners should be
considered, e.g., long distance calls and other communication, letters,
recognition of each other's significant events, etc.

** Evidence of efforts to live in the same country

Airline tickets, visas, visa denials.

--------------------------

6.46 Internet relationships

An Internet relationship alone without other convincing evidence that the
couple has established and maintained a conjugal relationship for at least one
year and spent time together, will raise serious concerns as to whether a
conjugal relationship exists. Conjugality should be assessed based on the
elements of interdependency as set out in [section 5.23].
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---

--

../..

Andrew Miller
Immigration Consultant
Vancouver, British Columbia
email: [email protected]
(delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)

For confidential phone consultation go here:

http://members.yahoo.-
liveadvice.com/andrewmiller_canada
________________________________


"BritBob" wrote in message
news:447437.1034918151@britishexpats-
.com...
    > Originally posted by dougall:
    > > Hi ngoodlad
    > > Thank you for your response to my questions by the way...
    > >
    > Yes, Same here. Thankyou for all the replies. I`m going to start looking
    > into this Conjugal Parter route. I`ve never even heard of the word so I
    > better hunt the dictionary down!!!
    > Best of luck to all the people on here who are waiting or beginning the
    > long road with CIC.
    > --
    > Bob