Storage heaters - how much???!!!
 

Okay, perhaps someone can help me with my heating headache....

Having spent over $6k on oil last winter (we have an oil furnace and hot water basebord heaters) I've been trying to do something about our heating bills but seem to be getting nowhere fast. Someone said in a previous thread said that we must have a badly insulated mansion to have spent that much on oil and actually I'm starting to think thats probably true. So I'm embarking on a program of improving the insulation but I cant do much about the size of the place so my plan is to supplement the oil heating with some other sources in the rooms that are used most.

My plan is to put a wood-burning insert into our fireplace in the living room which I'm hoping will do a much better job of heating that end of the house. Then I wanted to put storage heaters in our family room and in-law suite at the other end of the house.

I had originally looked at replacing the oil furnace with a Steffes ETS system that works on the time of day rate to store heat at night and power our hot water basebords but it turns out we would need to upgrade our electric supply from 200 to 400 Amp and the whole package (including new furnace) would cost over $20k so that doesnt really seem like an option.

The problem I'm having is that storage heaters dont seem to be readily available here. The only company I can seem to find that makes them is Steffes again and you cant just go into a shop and buy them - they are sold by installers. We contacted two different installers and they both wanted over $5k just for 2 relatively small storage heaters! Are they crazy? I'm looking on UK websites and suitable-sized storage heaters are only about £250 each.

Does anyone have them or know where to get them from?

Do any sparkies out there think that you could use a UK storage heater in Canada? I'm looking at the Steffes website and I see that the storage heaters they sell in North America need 240v anyway. I remember from previous questions that some devices with motors cant be made to work here because of the 50/60Hz thing but is there an issue with heaters too?

Any other comments on my proposed heating strategy are welcome too. In NS the night-time electricity rate is only a third of the cost of day-time electric in the winter so it seems like a good idea to me. I'd love a heat pump but we dont have any ducting so that doesnt seem like an option. And natural gas isnt available in our area and probably wont be for 10 years. And the price of oil really sucks :mad:

Re: Storage heaters - how much???!!!
 

Plenty of insulation and good air tightness will help. Ductles heat pumps are available.
Don't forget to look at the government grant scheme to see what money you can get back.
ecoaction.gc.ca.

Re: Storage heaters - how much???!!!
 

Thanks. My understanding of ductless heat pumps is that your house needs to be very "open concept" for them to work well and ours isnt that sort of style - does that sound right?

Re: Storage heaters - how much???!!!
 

I'd think so, but the only way to find out for sure is to get a supplier/installer round to your home and have a look. They should be able to work out what you'd need. In my experience though I've found them to be expensive. Running costs can be low though, but this would depend on the cost of your electric.

Re: Storage heaters - how much???!!!
 

Hi Paul
there is some good information on NSpower website
https://www.nspower.ca/customer_serv...ts/index.shtml
I'm going to phone them tomorrow and see if I can set up an appointment with one of their energy advisors
We are going to look at installing water heater and night storage heater

Re: Storage heaters - how much???!!!
 

May seem like a daft question (sorry if it is) but have you thought about a pellet stove?

We had one installed in our basement as there was no heat in the main room there - we have a smallish stove but it is supposed to be able to heat up to 2000 sq ft.

Could this be an option?

Re: Storage heaters - how much???!!!
 

The "night storage heater" is what I'm talking about - they call them Electric Thermal Storage (ETS) Room Units here. NS Power only seem to deal with Steffes heaters though and thats what we got quoted over $5k for 2 heaters! If you find out about any alternatives then please do let me know.

Re: Storage heaters - how much???!!!
 

No its not a daft question at all - a pellet stove would probably work quite well for our in-law suite. I'm not sure about putting one in the family room though - we leave the kids to play in there and I think I would worry about them burning themselves on it. I also heard there is a bit of a shortage of them at the moment - not sure how true that is.

Re: Storage heaters - how much???!!!
 

I thought the whole point of the UK style night storage heater was to use cheap 'economy 7' overnight energy to store up heat for the next day. Problem being that you have little control over how much heat is released the next day. More importantly here in Canada I don't think there are cheap overnight electricity tariffs? So whats the benefit above and beyond electric baseboard heaters?

You really should get a 'Energuide' audit - google it for lots of useful info. Basically an assessment of your house that gives you an energy efficiency rating and recommendations as to how you might improve. You can then get the improvements done/or do them yourself and you get another audit. If your house has improved enough you get the govt grants.

The local assessor here advised that it wasn't worth the investment ($500 or so) for our place as it is more aimed at older houses. He did recommend a simpler airflow test (basically depressurising the house and finding where the air leaks are) as a cheaper alternative. I know for example that there is little or no insulation around the windows in our place so I will be removing the trim and making with the squirty foam (low expansion) to plug the gaps.

Re: Storage heaters - how much???!!!
 

Thanks AX. I already had an energy audit done so I know the main areas I need to concentrate on as far as insulation and air sealing goes. I'm hoping that'll make a big difference but I still have the issue that heating a house of over 4000 sq ft with oil is going to be expensive (and oil cost is going to be more per litre than last year) regardless of how well insulated we are.

The grants available through the energy audit are nice to have but fairly small in comparrison to the potential savings from cutting the oil bill and some of the recomendations were a little ridiculous (I think we could get a grant of a few hundred for example if we replaced all 82 windows!).

In NS the power company do offer a time of day rate which is only 5 cents/unit at night comparred with 15c during peak day times in the winter. If you were heating with electricity during the day at 15 cents your costs would probably be similar to oil but at 5 cents there should be a big saving (though not if you have to spend $2500 to get one storage heater put in).

Re: Storage heaters - how much???!!!
 

I have found the NS Power webpage about the time of day tarriffs:

http://www.nspower.ca/customer_servi...age/faqs.shtml

Surprisingly, we get cheap rates all weekend and on holiday dates.

Weekends & Holidays, Year round 24 hours/day = 5.335¢/kW.h Save 50%

Nights, Year round 11 pm – 7 am = 5.335¢/kW.h Save 50%

Weekdays Mar - Nov 7 am – 11 pm = 10.670¢/kW.h Standard rate

Weekdays (Dec – Feb only):
7 am - noon = 15.320¢/kW.h
noon - 4:00 pm = 10.670¢/kW.h
4 pm – 11 pm = 15.320¢/kW.h

Re: Storage heaters - how much???!!!
 

OK

You could consider geoexchange. I think the one off residential costs are $10-20K. But the benefits are miniscual heating bills, miniscule cooling costs, maybe a selling point, maybe government grant avaliable (see geoexchange website).

It essentially requires drilling and works on the basis the groundwater is at a differential to the air temperature and uses a heat pump. Large lengths are involved and in the UK they can lay horizontal pipes at the surface (these would freeze here) Costs are then supposedly $300 per year heating. Payback period depends on how much you spend etc but I reckon you could payback in less than the 4 yrs they state and I reckon its a really good house selling point

Gryph

Re: Storage heaters - how much???!!!
 

Have you considered the idea of an air to air heat pump.

Both heat and air conditioning in one unit, use your oil furnace as the back-up heat supply in winter.

According to B.C. Hydro you can get heat out of -18C outside air.

http://www.bchydro.com/powersmart/el...ibrary684.html

Re: Storage heaters - how much???!!!
 

Thanks Gryph and Steve.

I have done some research and my understanding is that for an air to air heat pump is only possible if you have forced air heating (not hot water baseboards) so that would mean installing ductwork throughout our house - not completely impossible but we've already renovated and I'd like to avoid that is I can.

On the geoexchange (understand this is the same as a geothermal or ground-to-air heat pump?) I also understand that you cant connect it to traditional style hot-water baseboards again - you need special pipes and baseboard heaters that can run at much lower temperatures. Someone also told me that if you are getting your water from a well then having a load of extra wells dug for a geothermal system can really mess with your water supply.

Do either of you know whether any of the above are completely untrue?

Re: Storage heaters - how much???!!!
 

The well thing. I suspect this is not true (I am a geologist, so have some awareness, but I am not fully up on it). Geoexchange is not quite the same as a geothermal source, where the water is generally hotter and from a known geothermal source and you ineffect 'mine' it.. I was under the impression that geoexchange is a 'closed system' as oppose to an 'open system'. Meaning you do not actually extract water from the ground but you equilibriate closed circuit fluid in your pipes with water temperature in the ground and it this that is used in your heat pump, otherwise you have quantities of waste water to get rid of. So your pipes are sealed (you do not extract water from the ground) and the waste fluid returns back down into your pipes in the ground to reequilibriate etc.

However peppering the ground with wells would be inadvisable, but I am not sure you need that many. Any new holes you drilled would have to be sealed through your aquifer (can be done around the pipes with bentonite pellets) in order to not affect your aquifer. This is relatively simple, but it has to be done and the process managed.

I would contact a manufacturer

Gryph

Re: Storage heaters - how much???!!!
 

I presume you have read:

http://www.geo-exchange.ca/en/geoexc...ncept_faq3.php

Gryph