State Arts Funding

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Sep 19th 2009, 9:22 pm

#46

Lord Vader

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Re: State Arts Funding

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novocastrian

I don't think I follow. Surely government revenue and spending, whether it be on Arts or helicopters, is also a product of the people?

Oh I think you do follow.

But to play along I would like funding to help me complete my poem collection about the arctic teat monster. I can count on you to by my book right?

Sep 19th 2009, 9:24 pm

#47

Steve_P

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Re: State Arts Funding

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Vader

Then I would like funding to help me complete my poem collection about the arctic teat monster. I can count on you to by my book right?

So make your application to the appropriate government department and see if you can get it.

Sep 19th 2009, 9:25 pm

#48

Lord Vader

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Re: State Arts Funding

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve_P

So make your application to the appropriate government department and see if you can get it.

I don't deserve it.

Sep 19th 2009, 9:35 pm

#49

Novocastrian

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Re: State Arts Funding

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Vader

Oh I think you do follow.

But to play along I would like funding to help me complete my poem collection about the arctic teat monster. I can count on you to by my book right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve_P

So make your application to the appropriate government department and see if you can get it.

Well exactly. The military have to make their case for helicopters, just as a poet, sculptor, musician or potential Olympic athlete have to make their's.

Do you worry a lot about teat monsters?

Sep 19th 2009, 9:38 pm

#50

Alan2005

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Re: State Arts Funding

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve_P

So make your application to the appropriate government department and see if you can get it.

So some committee in the government is now the arbiter of what counts as art? You want art, you pay for it.

Sep 19th 2009, 9:39 pm

#51

Lord Vader

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Re: State Arts Funding

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novocastrian

Well exactly. The military have to make their case for helicopters, just as a poet, sculptor, musician or potential Olympic athlete have to make their's.

Except for the fact military is not art.

Quote:

Do you worry a lot about teat monsters?

Only that they get their share of public money.

Sep 19th 2009, 9:42 pm

#52

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Re: State Arts Funding

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Vader

Except for the fact military is not art.

Leaving aside the numerous manuals entitled "The Art of War", you miss the point, presumably intentionally.

Your statement that "Art is the product of the people, not the government" remains specious.

Sep 19th 2009, 9:43 pm

#53

Alan2005

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Re: State Arts Funding

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novocastrian

Doesn't matter. You want art, you pay for it.

Sep 19th 2009, 9:43 pm

#54

Lord Vader

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Re: State Arts Funding

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan2005

So some committee in the government is now the arbiter of what counts as art? You want art, you pay for it.

This is the fact that is lost on them. "Well this constitutes appropriate art"?
Yeah, says who?

Sep 19th 2009, 9:44 pm

#55

Lord Vader

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Re: State Arts Funding

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novocastrian

See above statements, who gets to determine what is and what isn't art? The government or the people?

Last edited by Lord Vader; Sep 19th 2009 at 9:46 pm. Reason: too many words

Sep 19th 2009, 9:51 pm

#56

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Re: State Arts Funding

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Vader

See above statements, who gets to determine what is and what isn't art? The government or the people?

Now I think you're just being silly. Art (however we choose to define it) is a product of (a rather large number) of people. When you ask who determines what is art, I think you really mean who determines which artists get funded (by the government)? Which depends really... there is no single answer, but whoever makes the micro-decision, it surely isn't the government. They only set the envelope.

Sep 19th 2009, 9:56 pm

#57

Lord Vader

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Re: State Arts Funding

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novocastrian

Now I think you're just being silly. Art (however we choose to define it) is a product of (a rather large number) of people. When you ask who determines what is art, I think you really mean who determines which artists get funded (by the government)? Which depends really... there is no single answer, but whoever makes the micro-decision, it surely isn't the government. They only set the envelope.

Keeping in mind that the title of the thread is "state arts funding" The government shouldn't be deciding who gets rewarded for what when it comes to art because one persons "art" is another persons waste of time.

Sep 19th 2009, 10:01 pm

#58

DaveLovesDee

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Re: State Arts Funding

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan2005

I'm not sure where I stand (which is why I put this up for debate). I can see that culture and the arts enrich our lives and shouldn't be the preserve of the rich, however most arts funding actually ends up subsidising the middle classes, who if they really wanted art could pay for it themselves.

I believe the arts should not be funded directly. I suppose it could be subsidised for the lower classes to encourage them to participate more, but wouldn't that lower the value of the Arts in the eyes of the middle classes. I would think the Arts are something some of the latter would prefer to remain with a glass floor between themselves and the great unwashed.

Would a Michaelangelo, Renoir or Van Gogh be as valuable if more people could afford them? I doubt it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan2005

It's not that the middle classes have a monopoly on art. It's just that the art of the working classes doesn't need subsidising because it's popular. Monster trucks, tv shows, cinema, panto's, comedy clubs, etc.

Neither should the Arts of the middle classes. If our tax money is used to pay for the Arts, then why should we have to pay again out of our own pockets to actually see it on stage or in galleries.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iaink

Why should I as a tax payer subsidise some bohemian who wont get a real job? If their art is worthy and good, someone somewhere will pay for it. If its not then it should stay a hobby and they should pay their own way.

If the artist can't live on their income from what they do produce, then they should start producing product that sells. That's basic economics.

Sep 19th 2009, 10:05 pm

#59

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Re: State Arts Funding

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Vader

To repeat: it doesn't. It simply (ultimately reflecting the people's democratically expressed opinion) provides what funding it (the government, again reflecting the people's opinion) thinks is appropriate. The administration (i.e. who gets what, for what) is carried out by a huge range of other people, mostly volunteers.