InDoubt

Considering Canada has IT and telecom skills shortage, otherwise the government would not run programmes to bring foreign skilled professionals in, how do skilled immigrants with the required visa compete with equivalent locals?

In Toronto for example, despite the shortage, how do skilled immigrants compete with locals?

scribe123

I can't comment for sure because I'm not in Canada, but what I've gathered it's all about your network to a certain degree.

If you build up a good professional network, and providing you don't come across as a total idiot/serial killer/racist/{insert more choices here}, I imagine you have as good, or almost as good a chance as a Canadian.

If a company and the managers within are commercially focused, they should hire the best person for the job. You may find a Canadian could be chosen over you for a start-up/small outfit even if you are the better candidate, but in a larger organisation I'm inclined to say you'll be okay (applying the caveats in the paragraph above of course

Tangram

Usually by rock, paper, scissors.

dbd33

I think the reasoning in the first point is unsound. The government doesn't know which workers are needed and can find jobs. At best they know what might have been needed five years ago. They import workers they think are wanted or ones who work cheaply in the industries of large donors to their party.

Immigrants can't compete with locals. That is, if there are two candidates for a job, one is foreign and the other an alumni of the school the interviewer attended, the immigrant has no chance. The only matter for debate here is the degree to which the connection outweighs skills; I suggest the answer is "massively". My worked example is the University of Guelph departments of administrivia, the computer people and similar are Guelph graduates. The University of Guelph trains vets and Aggies. I find it a stretch to think that there has never been an immigrant applicant for an administration job at the UofG who had a more relevant skill than pitchforking.

This works the other way, of course, Ontario Hydro is a quango at which the workforce is unionised (technically "the society" is not a union but it's a professional body representing the administrative staff). Up to ten years ago and I imagine still, the society meetings were conducted in Mandarin so as to create a barrier to entry to non-immigrant staff.

I don't think an immigrant can establish a network such as a cradle would have because it stems from education, people know each other from school. The best bet, I think, is to hope to be interviewed by an immigrant. Luckily, in Toronto, there's better than a 50% chance of that, probably an 85% chance for a computer job in Toronto; we don't come across many Canadians.

dbd33

I'd say that this is completely wrong about large organisations. I'm sitting in the office of one. School has just broken up so the students have arrived for their summer jobs; he's the son of the director of this, she's the daughter of the VP of that. When the students graduate they'll have the option to take jobs with the corporation, one might say they're good candidates as they have all that summer experience; they certainly have the network, they worked all those summers with the future director of this and the future VP of that.

It's a shame for the corporation that they all look the same but, what do you want; it's a close, close, network.

januarymix

Wow, the situation is grimmer than I thought. I never realised Canadian work culture worked like that, and they say that about ...

Ben W Bell

The IT offices I've worked in have been a roughly 50/50 split between locals and immigrants. My current client, a large investment company, about 90% immigrant very few locals.

Zoe Bell

I'd say this s pretty much spot on, especially for your first job. Once you've acquired the mystical "Canadian Experience" and can name a couple of local hockey players your chances may improve to get your second.

I work in a particular incestuous little industry , we seem to be constantly recycling each others employees.

dbd33

It's not that grim, no different from being an immigrant to the UK.

Zoe Bell

which goes to prove the " it is whoever is doing the hiring" fcat.
if you are interviewed by an immigrant you have a better chance , as an immigrant than if you were being quizzed by a local.

IMO

dbd33

Around here I'd say about half the people are staff, half contractors. The staff are overwhelmingly local (local enough that they can each document the complete sexual history of any other) with a few second or third generation immigrants. The contractors are overwhelmingly immigrants but their pimps, well, they're part of the documentable history.

januarymix

Is that true? I am not a native Brit, but when I was in London I had absolutely NO shortage of job offers. Admittedly, I have had the last 2 years off so this may be the difference now, but I never ever felt my credentials/background and lack of UK contacts was a problem.

CanadaJimmy

I think what it boils down is that employers are more emotional when it comes to choosing staff. This has benefits, for example you may be able to befriend a potential employer and get a job even if you don't have all the qualifications but are able to do the job, but on the downside it means that their family and friends can gazump you and get the job based on those ties instead of who is qualified which can leave people feeling pretty burnt.

dbd33

I think that's a London thing, big city, lots of employers. Canada doesn't really have anywhere like that. If we compared Toronto to, say, Birmingham, I think we'd find similar immigrant experiences.

januarymix

Hmm..interesting.

Thanks, db33.

Cheers,
f