TheBear

Yep, first thing I'd do is fit heating. New Zealand homes are freezing in winter, and the weather is dreary from May through October, but I need more than a big warm house to be happy. Family and friends, that's what it's all about.

I think a part of our problem is that NZ has always been at the back our mind, and our final destination. We first thought that we keep a condo or cottage here and a beach house in NZ, but the truth is we don't feel that would be worth it now...nothing really to bring us back here every summer...rather spend a month in Europe, or the US, or elsewhere travelling, than 3 months starring at a lake swatting bugs

TheBear

Prices are all over the place here. Up 40% year on year in March, down 20% since then, and Toronto is dropping too. Hoping things will settle down over the winter and then lift again next spring when we plan to sell.

TheBear

Some wise words there. I agree with your analysis of the aggression on UK forums. I also will take your advise and keep an open mind.

In all honesty I would love to write a humble post in 9 months time saying we have changed our minds and things turned around for us. We have two international moves ahead, the first back to the UK, then another one 10-15 years later to NZ. Ideally we would have just gone straight to NZ when I retire, but as things currently stand we will go bonkers if we have to stay here for another decade.

MarylandNed

This comment more closely mirrors my own experience. My wife and I lived in Canada for 7 years (5 in Toronto; 2 in Brampton) before moving back to the UK. We loved Toronto (1st kid arrived after 4 years) but moved out to Brampton to buy a house when the 2nd kid was on the way. Moving to Brampton was the worst move we ever made but we couldn't afford a house in Toronto even at that time.

At first I thought we'd be happy in Brampton. I was working in Mississauga at the time so my commute was much better - no 401 anymore! We lived in the Heart Lake area which had green space and playgrounds for the kids. I found a great British/Irish pub within walking distance that showed live football matches. But eventually something got to us and we decided to return to the UK. Looking back, it was probably a number of factors. Having two young kids with no family support was hard. We also wanted them to actually get to see their family in the UK. Brampton was OK to live in but a bit soulless - although we knew that before we moved there. The neighbours were pleasant but there was always a feeling that they were presenting an exterior front without really opening up or bonding. They weren't going to become real friends. So I can relate to what the OP said although it's never a good idea to tar everyone with the same brush. I did make some real Canadian friends who were genuine and fun - so those people are out there.

The move back to the UK is something I'm glad we did - and not just because it got it out of our system. We really enjoyed our time there. We saw family and friends and got to do all the things we missed about the UK - actually going to football matches, good pubs, proper fish and chips, good Indian restaurants, etc. The usual stuff. But we also encountered some of the things mentioned in the comment above. Miserable weather. Aggression - especially in pubs. Negativity. Everywhere seemed crowded. Roads were narrower and seemed more crowded - and it was harder to find parking spaces. When we ran into difficulties enrolling the first kid in a decent school, that was probably the last straw - that and the drunken chavs hanging out at the local playground, swearing, breaking bottles etc. If I took my kids to a playground, I'd nearly always see dog crap, broken glass - sometimes in the sand pit. Everywhere seemed less child friendly. So we decided to leave. Originally wanted to go back to Canada but I was offered a job in the US first and have been here 18 years.

Stinkypup

I like this thread- apart from a little naughtiness, it has been reasoned debate. As people have said, Canada is a big place, I don't think one can generalise too much- I love BC- (apart from the current smoke/fires), people seem to be pretty sociable but maybe that is me (Snoop would dispute that)-

I do work with a British Doc who left for NZ after she finished training, was then there for 10 years and then moved here 9 years ago- she is a real chatterbox, she felt socially isolated, she much prefers it here)- horses for courses I reckon. They call it Beautiful BC for a reason (Don't they Oink ?)

TheBear

MarylandNed - thanks for your insights. One of my "problems" is that I come from a beautiful village in Sussex. The scenery is amazing, the weather is good for the UK, although still crap, the chavs are located a suitable distance away from the area, and there is London, Brighton and Europe on your doorstep, not to mention a vast array of awesome country pubs. When I go back, I am aware of the fact that much of the UK is not so pleasant, but I would possibly only ever drive through those bits!

Stinkypup: we have made closest connections with other ex pats too, and to be fair canadians who are well travelled and have something to say for themselves. Our closest friend is Barrie born and bred but has lived all over the world...she is so much fun. The problem is that while her husband is a really nice bloke, I struggle to get more than a few words out of him. I really miss my UK and antipodian mates.

I know that I have generalized wildly, and through work I have met some great people, but it seems really hard to find guys like that through my local connections. I have no love for hockey, baseball, fishing and trucks, so I am screwed really.

Stinkypup

Oh thank god- I thought that it was just me (add hunting and drinking crap frozen beer on as well)

Partially discharged

Yeah, there goes most of your Barrie conversation topics.

One of my best friends at university here in Canada grew up in Barrie and he got out as soon as he could...actually as far as Fife. Somehow he managed to sleep through the infamous tornado of 1985 which destroyed homes near him.

MarylandNed

I hear you. My sister-in-law is originally from Wigan and now lives in Eastbourne where the weather is possibly about as good as it gets in the UK. As you say, she can get to London easily and Europe is on her doorstep (Gatwick is just up the road). She loves it and I can't see her ever moving.


Our closest connections in Canada were people we met through work - some of them were expats (UK and other countries) and some were native-born Canadians.

TheBear

Barrie has changed a fair bit since then. Population has quadrupled for starters! However, it is an odd mix of rednecks, breading commuter types and well-healed middle class. It will improve as the new express trainline is completed. Aesthetically speaking it is streets ahead of most dormitory towns, or places like Hamilton, but it is still lagging a bit in the stock of humans able to converse about topics beyond the borders of Simcoe county.

rivingtonpike

I think your first point is a really good one. One's perspective on the UK can have a lot to do with where you lived before emigrating. If you lived in a beautiful Sussex village, had a good income, good schools, welcoming community, safe friendly village pub etc etc...then what's not to like? We had a similar experience, albeit in London. We were in Richmond on the Thames, had a nice house, garden, little drive, cherry trees - not bad for London. Two good incomes and a great nursery/school for the kids. Our problem was we'd hit that glass ceiling. All the promotions in the world were unlikely to get us to the next level in terms of house and so space, without moving out of London and then the career path becomes an issue.

If you've moved to Canada from one of the less affluent regions of the UK, the difference and so perceived benefit may be considered greater. I love living in Canada and we have a great quality of life. But equally, if we were still in the UK, lived in one of those country houses in Midsomer Murder, had great jobs, good income, kids at private school somewhere, that would probably work too!

TheBear

And don't get me started about Tim Hortons. 6 years and I still can't stomach it. Seriously, I still laugh at the morons queuing for it.

TheBear

The problem is the cost of property as you say. I have a deal with my parents that I can buy their village house for the same price as we sell our home here, which is enough for them to get a decent retirement apartment nearby. That way we all win as I am their only child...I would probably go back anyway, but it makes the whole thing less awful, and expensive. I am hoping to get the same kind of relocation that I got on coming over, which would also help.

rivingtonpike

Hey, what a great idea and how fortunate you can do that. We could never afford to buy the house we sold in London all those years ago. Luckily we're happy here and things have worked out well for us. It sounds like you have a great plan and a well considered future ahead of you.

TheBear

Yes, if I had siblings it would never happen. I am lucky in one way, and unlucky in another...all the responsibility for my elderly parents falls on me. I feel very strongly I should be there for them in their time of greatest need, and if they are willing to sweeten the deal, who am I to stop them!