tioram

What you describe as english education sounds exactly like what i had when i was a kid but my daughters school is far more progressive. She's been doing presentations, such as show and tell, since nursery. My youngest is in nursery and the first thing she does on a Monday morning is stand in front of the class and talk about her weekend. I think there's a danger of judging uk schools by our own experience from 15 years ago and comparing them with Canada today.

If my daughter move's into grade 3 (which to her would be a natural progression, not skipping a year) the other kids would only be 6 to 12 months older than her, which i don't think would be a huge issue. I'll be chasing future boyfriends away with a stick whatever age she is.

As everyone agrees, each to their own. I think for my kids i'm more concerned about a potential change in attitude towards school caused by boredom and an unchallengng curriculum, than the potential that when she's older her friends will learn to drive 6 months before her etc.

ExKiwilass

I know you don't want to hear this, but 6 -12 months in the teen years is a big deal. It's not just about the boys, it's about whether she'll be emotionally mature enough, whether she'll fit in. I need to find the research about keeping kids with their peer group; it makes a difference the older they get. Does anyone know what I"m talking about?

Almost Canadian

Not at all, my 3 children had all been taught in English state schools.

Each to their own, I am sure your children will do fine whatever you decide.

Helen Parnell

i know exactly what you mean. What you also have to remember/ know is that in Canada you can not go into a licensed place under 18 or in some cases 21.

I know the law in England says no one under the age of 18 can buy an alcoholic drink. We also know that every pub in the UK breaks the rules. Both Tony Blaires son and Prince Harry were caught underage drinking and nothing happened to either of them or the landlords of the pubs.

IN CANADA they can not go into a pub. NO ID no entrance and don't think using a friends ID will work. You have to use government issued ID.

So a group of your daughters friends all go out for the evening. Your daughter is 17 all her friends are 18. She stands outside whilst her friends are clubbing it!!!

jimf

For what its worth I find this and your earlier posting more in line with my experience and perspective. The other issue for us is that it is by no means certain we would still be in Canada in 2 or 3 years time so effectively repeating Y2 in Canada would very likely mean falling behind compared to the peer group staying in the UK.

For the two older children, fortunately their dates of birth mean that they will continue in the same year/grade in Canada. The only difference being that, due to the different "cut-off" date, the average age of the other children in the grade will be 6 months older compared to the average age of the same year in the UK.

For the youngest child, going into G3 would mean the average age of other children being 6 months and 3 days older compared to Y3. Going into G2 would mean the average age of the other children would be younger by 6 months less 3 days compared to Y3. In reality the difference of 3 days is insignificant and is only the result of an arbitrary cut-off date. For a child that had struggled in Y2 and/or was less confident then I can see there is a case for going into G2. On the other hand for a child that has already done 2 years of school, is very capable and confident, there is a genuine case for going into G3.

Is being 18 first such a great thing? So you can legally going to a club or buy a drink. Your friends are still 17 so they can't. Are you going to go to the pub or club without your friends? Okay so there might be a few months when a few friends might be able to do this as they turn 18. Not exactly the end of the world.

I have found the schools the children have attended in England to be excellent but perhaps we have been fortunate where we live. Some of the negative comments don't accurately describe the schools I've come across at all.

Almost Canadian

Our kids attended very good schools in England too. As I said, the way they are taught in Canada is very different, particularly in the early years. Much less emphasis on "achievements, tests etc.", much more focus on learning how to learn. I wouldn't say that one system is better than the other, they just achieve their results in very different ways.

However, I would be concerned about only being out of the "English system" for the number of years you have suggested. I can't imagine how your children will keep pace with their English counterparts and I doubt very much whether this would be achieved by moving them up a single grade. That is not because the Canadian system is inferior to the English one, it is because the system is different.

I am sure that you will make the correct decision for your children but I would be amazed if what you now think your decision will be, will actually be your decision. I thought our kids would all be placed into higher grades upon arrival. However, after discussing this with the teachers and other expats here, they were all placed in their "appropriate" grades.

jimf

[QUOTE=Almost Canadian;7744027]Our kids attended very good schools in England too. As I said, the way they are taught in Canada is very different, particularly in the early years. Much less emphasis on "achievements, tests etc.", much more focus on learning how to learn. I wouldn't say that one system is better than the other, they just achieve their results in very different ways.

[I]Presentations, understanding what they are learning, not learning by rote etc are all just the norm in England also in my experience. Canada doesn't sound very remarkable in that respect.[/I]

However, I would be concerned about only being out of the "English system" for the number of years you have suggested. I can't imagine how your children will keep pace with their English counterparts and I doubt very much whether this would be achieved by moving them up a single grade. That is not because the Canadian system is inferior to the English one, it is because the system is different.

[I]From your comments you seem to regard the systems "English" and "Canadian" each as homogeneous with uniformity of schools. The reality is the schools in each system vary significantly and deliver a wide range of attainment and outcomes for the individuals attending. Although there are many other issues to also consider, picking a school where the norm is for higher attainment should mitigate any "falling behind" should we decide to return to England. I had been to schools in 3 different countries by the age of 10 without any harm being done. I know plenty of people who have done that in more recent times without it being a great issue.[/I]

I am sure that you will make the correct decision for your children but I would be amazed if what you now think your decision will be, will actually be your decision. I thought our kids would all be placed into higher grades upon arrival. However, after discussing this with the teachers and other expats here, they were all placed in their "appropriate" grades.

The "appropriate" grade is what is best for the particular child with all the individual circumstances taken into consideration. I have an open mind on it.[/QUOTE]

Shawn_ldn

Seems to me you've already made your mind up anyway. Do what you have to do but you may find that the school board and teachers will not yield in the way you expect. They have a system in place here and while you may disagree with the grade they want to put your child into that decision may well not be yours to make.
They will do what they think is best based on their experience of all the children they have taught and dealt with, they trust their professional judgement and that is what they are.

jimf

a

Almost Canadian

[QUOTE=jimf;7744214] OK, I will defer to your greater knowledge.

misplacedheidi

I mentioned earlier that the cut off in Kingston ON is 31st Dec and that my kids are Jan Feb born.

The other thing to mention, and this is affects me in ON, is that Grade 13 was abolished a few years ago - you can do grade 13 to earn more credits but you can leave to go to Uni at the end of grade 12 (if you do well and want to). This is important to me in ON, but no one else may care! And i have no idea what other provinces do!

Now, this means that my kids (in correct grade) will be 18.5 years old when they go away (end of grade 12). Kids born in Dec of that school year (but still correct grade) will only be 17+ approaching 18 and will turn 18 when they are away at Uni. Personally I think that 18 is a good age to go away. (It was right for me).

If your kids are bumped up a year, then they will be even younger to go away to college or they may wish to do grade 13. I know one kid here who did year 13 and hated it because all his mates had moved away to uni and he was bored.

Children may be mature / need stimulation etc but that year's difference is a big deal when puberty/boys/partying occurs.

I went to school in the UK and we had 2 girls in our year who were a year young - I don't think it did them any favours TBH. They got into the workplace earlier - and can retire earlier!

IMHO Let the kids settle, integrate, concentrate on making friendships without having to worry about academic matters. Again, in ON only, there is little difference between grade 2 and 3 anyway. Grade 4 is when it kranks up the pace. (I always get this wrong - Junior JK-3, Primary 4-6 and Intermediate 7-8).

But this is only my opinion and I don't wish to offend

NOTE: Jim F, if you are not sure if you are staying and you miss the cut off by 3 days, push for higher grade. Much better for you if you go back.

NOTE: Tioram - IMHO I'd still go for them being the oldest not youngest in grade for all reasons above!

leepee

I was talking to my neighbour today who is a teacher in the Catholic system. I asked her about exceptions to the 'cut off' rule and she seemed to think that it would be extremely unlikely that any exceptions would be made....Part of her reasoning was that sooooo many people have moved to Calgary from all over the place. They obviously all have their different school systems so the general rule in the separate system was to just stick to the Calgary rules....Can see her point.....She did also say that parents tend to believe that their kids can all cope with the next grade but that isn't always the case on an emotional level......Be prepared for the shock of teachers thinking as much about your child's emotional wellbeing as their grade average...

Frankly I would let her/him coast a bit.....You could always find a kids french course or something to keep her brain fine tuned.....She/he can spend time getting to know other kids without any pressure.....Her brain isn't going to turn to swiss cheese or anything!!!!

Good luck
L

itsmeg

Sorry, i had to register so I can jump in on this topic. Just enrolled my kids in school here in Edmonton coming from the British Curriculum.

I think an important point has been missed. Years and Grades are not equal.
If your child goes "back" a grade when coming here they can go "up" a year when returning back.

Meg

jimf

If there is strict adherence to the cut-off date then we will just have to accept and deal with the consequences of it. Lots of institutions, organisations and individuals prefer to stick with rules even when there are rational reasons for flexibility. It's not something that would greatly suprise me.

I daresay going back a year and coasting wouldn't be a disaster. We will just have to try to find other things to offset the negative and provide a balance. It's ironic that the youngest child is the most confident for their age and would probably be seen by others as having the "best?" "emotional wellbeing" but is the one that will probably be moved back all for the sake of being born 3 days too late.

Steve_P

You know instead of getting all wound up over this issue why don't just wait until you get here and take things as they come.

What makes you think there will be negatives and some sort of imbalance?

At the moment you have no clue as to how the education system works here but you're making an awful lot of negative assumptions.